My words to foreverserenity exactly, just in different language, see amy great minds do think alike.

Up until around 1995 most AF bases allowed underage airman to drink beer at the clubs on base and other base activities. I drank under 21 in North Dakota and Colorado...but Colorado had 3.2 beer and everyone 18 and up could drink it. (1986)

The mid 90's (at least for the AF) became very anti-drinking...or actually anti-public support drinking..they still supported it, just didn't announce it in policy like before.

Sorry if this is a repeat. I didn't read the responses.

You cannot drink until you are 21 in the military, even overseas. It happens to be our most common Non-judicial punishment here. Even in Texas where your parents or spouse (Of legal age)can take an 18 year old into a bar for a legal drink.
I was going to take my 18 year old out for a beer but the Army would still have considered me to be supplying alcohol to minors.

thanks tova and the other comments...as i suspected, there were many different perspectives, mostly based on experience on this. i think ti's safe to say at this point that what i was told 20 years ago, on the whole, had some truth to it. hmmmmm, guess tex's flip answer was illinformed.

and tex...when you were 19, it wasn't "illegal" for you to go on a test drive without your mom. that's just a sales tactic dealers use. they cite "insurance" and so forth, and it's baloney.

technically, it's the salesman who is covered under the insurance. technically, salespeople are supposed to go on all test drives, per that insurance agreement. when they are in the car with their "T-Tag" in the back window, the car is insured. you have permission to drive it, your mom doesn't figure into that legality. some dealers allow customers to go on test drives on their own, which is technically not allowed under most insurance agreements, unless additional paperwork is filled out. this happens when a car is "puppydogged" (given to the cust. overnight) usually.

and when they skip that paperwork and there is a problem (like an accident),,,it's funny to see these guys scramble to cover their ass, posthumously.

the real reason they want your mom in the dealership is because , statistically, a 19 year old is rarely the "decider" and quite often, doesn't even have any authorization to buy a car. sometimes the parent cosigns or pays for the car...etc, etc...

example: like when a parent off handedly says "MAYBE we'll think about getting you a car somewhere down the road" and the kid responds with shopping dealers the very next day. then the parent gets hit with "mom, i found a car, can we buy it?" and the parent is like..."no way, i was talking about a year or 2 from now" or whatever...

car dealers deal with these kids all the time and getting the parent involved is a "qualifier." that way they know their time isn't being wasted. after all, many salespeople live off of commissions, not hourly wages and "thank you's " for their time.

but it had nothing to do with "the law." just time-tested sales practices.

how mature.

have a nice day tex.   

I would say nice response if I din't know "have a nice day" after being told go fuck yourself, translates into "go fuck yourself too"

now, now...we've been there...and it means "have a nice day."

facts are i apologized thoroughly to tex, whether or not she read it and ignored it or never saw it, i don't know. but i do know that when she has violated her b/l on my site, i have been cordial, as she really didn't say anything too bad or anything, and it was a 1 time thing. and i do know that i've stayed off her site as she has requested.

here, i answered her question. i thought she might like to know that a salesperson was workin her so that next time, she might be more in tune with it and be able to get herself a better deal.

she replied with her filth.

i said have a nice day. it meant, have a nice day.

her answer was juvinile, and i ended on a gentlemanly note. i genuinely hope she has a nice day. i regret she can't even deal with having a civil conversation with me.

but feel free to read whatever you want into it.

Meg and I have been E-mailing I have all her new stuff and already sent her house warming gifts. Check your email now to see if you received my test email

thanks...seems i'm damned if i do, damned if i don't in some other folk's book.

and neither did i...apparantly, i offended her in a conversation about parenting since i have a different view. i was cursed at and insulted. that's where it started.

as billy joel said,,,i didn't start the fire.

but as far as i am concerned, i've offered apologies for any misunderstandings or anything i might have said that offended her...but she prefers her lil games, curses and insults. i'll just continue to do what i do, regardless. i've washed my hands.

whip is a lil lying hypocrite in my view, and aside from avoiding being "swiftboated" when i see fit, and have time to wallow in the muck, i just ignore the lil troll. i know she's your friend and i respect that, far be it from me to try to dictate whom someone should befriend.

and as far as you go man, i thoroghly enjoy debating with you. except when you thought i insulted you once when i was trying to pay you a compliment, i like our discussions.

and especially since you had your scare over the winter, you seem to have a fresh appreciation for what is important. and that has added an extra enjoyment. you and i know we still and may always have certain diferences of opinion, but you are not a liar, nor do you make a habit out of stalking me like some others. btw, i take that (obsessive stalking of me by whip) as a compliment.

i've been writing a long time, on and offline, and my skin is like kevlar. and i'd rather go into the "belly of the beast" to debate the war and the current politics and other beliefs than go hang in some "mutual admiration society" where everyone agreed on everything. i'm not here to be popular, obviously. of course, being popular is nice. but i'd rather be the scurge of JU and have people read my viewpoint and as i see it, truths...than be all popular. i could make anti iraq war and anti administration posts on some other places and get people who already feel tha t way to pat me on the back, but what good is that? to me, on a medium that could potentially reach anyone who is anywhere,,,no good at all.

and i feud here a little more than average probably because of my dissenting views. of course, that will prob. be mocked too, lol. of course, i have made the mistake of being too direct or strong with people, like with tex, where i was too hard and such. but when i offer repeated apologies and am met with more hostility each time...i know at that point, it's not me.

and when whip does her lil dance and that includes shitting on my birthday...something that was just beyond tasteless. and all her lil friends jumped around with glee like witches around a fire, for a good week celebrating that shitting...and she can't even see that this was dead wrong, let alone totally unprovoked (as most things with her lil napoleonic self are) and offer a simple apology...again, i know it's not me.

and i consider some attempts to ridicule me a sure sign that certain people are quite neurotic about the fact that they can't silence me...it's flattering.

God tells us about people who will try to ridicule and try to mock true faith. and the latest featured article is just more proof to me of God's existence.

if i get a chance, i'll have to personally thank brad and the stardock crew  

lastly,,,again,,,you choose your friends and that is between you and them. but allow me to apologize for letting the "Sean v Whip" feud bleed onto your pages. but you seemed to be asking for a response, and it would have been rude of me to ignore it. sorry for the filibuster tho.

take care:)

and really...have a nice day:)

Reply By: little-whipPosted: Saturday, May 19, 2007 I will not chose sides because frankly if forced to chose sides Sweets, I'd never make ya do that, and you know it. I don't begrudge you your willingness to 'get along' with Sean or trudy or anybody else who carries the 'We hate LW flag.'

I know this ,I was simply stating my truth.