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Xzarath
Xzarath
Join Date 02/2007
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capital ship subsystems?

June 26, 2007 7:07:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'm sorry if this has been discussed earlier, but i think that subsystems for the capital ships and maybe even the frigates would be a nice addition, to add some more tactical depth to the game. I'm thinking damageable engines, weapons, launch bays and so on... Yes? no?

ps. and then maybe add boarding action into the game?
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Xzarath
P5y
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #1 June 26, 2007 7:11:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Maybe something targetable by bombers?
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lordkosc
Join Date 12/2006
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Reply #2 June 26, 2007 7:18:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
they'd be nice , but to me there are a lot of other things I'd prefer before this...
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UsariaPrime
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #3 June 26, 2007 10:46:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I agree that implementing some sort of subsystems for CapShips would add an interesting tactic to fleet battles, but would spamming CapShip weapons become too commonplace and detract from gameplay?

I have separate reservations about capturing CapShips outright, the timer to effectively capture a CapShip should be long enough for the CapShip owner to implement some sort of defensive operations to repel the invading marines. This could be tied to research and even CapShip abilities (the defense against ship capture), although this could also be the same for the CapShip boarding party...

Thinking about subsystems again, adding the element of subterfuge for CapShip subsystems a la getting a spy on board an enemy ship, could be an interesting addition to espionage...
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Jperzio
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #4 June 27, 2007 5:12:02 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
yes but nwhat ships would take over a cap ship a frigate? i think that is stupid cos with a frigate you maby have 100 men. on a cap ship you may have 3000 men soooo let me think who would win? then your frig would probably be takes by the cap ship. A counter att. And maby you could have a virus reaserch that infects the computers on ships like bsg. But that would be gay if your ships couldent fire at all maby you could have it where it cant fire for a min.
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Jperzio
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #5 June 27, 2007 5:17:29 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
and with subsystems maby you cant target them but depending on where you hit the ship (randomly) it hits the subsystem and disables it or makes it half as effective. Or insted of hp you have like hit meters like star trek legacy. And like if one of your outo cannons gets hit badly it can be blown off and the only way of getting it back is going for repaires. I think that would be more realistic like on games your main turret can get hit by like 50 nukes and still operate and that is stupid.
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Xzarath
Join Date 02/2007
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Reply #6 June 27, 2007 5:28:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
[qoute]and with subsystems maby you cant target them but depending on where you hit the ship (randomly) it hits the subsystem and disables it or makes it half as effective. [/qoute] That is what i thought as well. But maybe there could be some way to disable vessels without blowing them up completly.

And regarding boarding, either there could be dedicated boarding vessels, and/or i imagine at least the larger vessels have contingents of a regular fighting force, thus making boarding actions smaller fights aboard the ship in question.
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matthewfarmery
Join Date 05/2007
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Reply #7 June 27, 2007 9:17:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I sub systems aren't a bad idea, able to take out the engines of a ship would stop it moving, and would reduce the damage of the weapon systems, not sure about boarding parties mind, the Advent hopefully will be able to use abilities to capture ships, and really should be the only race that can, to set all the races apart, they all need different strengths and weaknesses, and different skills that the other races don't have, at least that is my view
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Major Stress
Join Date 05/2006
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Reply #8 June 27, 2007 9:23:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
No. No. NO! Its already been there, done that with Homeworld 2, and not very well i might add.

In the grand scale of what the developers have in mind you wont have time to micromanage subsystem combat with as many fleets as i believe there will be once the Vasari, and Advent are added into the game. You can micro only one of those fleets at a time. While the AI will have to manage the rest of them unless you franticly jump between fleets. I personally dont want to deal with subsystems as well on top of that. This is supposed to be a game of grand strategy. Not single fleet battle tactics like in Homeworld.


The AI (not the pirate AI) in its present condition can barely handle fights (if you can call them fights). If subsystems are tossed in it just might fry the AI beyond all redemption.

If i wanted to play Homeworld 2 all i have to do is load my disk's and play Homeworld 2. I want something different.
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Spartan
Join Date 03/2006
+172
Reply #9 June 27, 2007 9:47:01 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'm on the fence on this issue. As pointed out by MS, I need to experience the full application before deriving a conclusion. In principle I support the idea but I think the execution for a game of this nature may take away from the player experience.
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Yarlen
Join Date 01/2005
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Reply #10 June 27, 2007 9:48:00 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Yeah, this has been brought up several times before and there won't be sub-systems in Sins.
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PasDeCharge
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #11 June 27, 2007 12:56:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Well arn't they kind of allready in? The special weapons of some ships target a range of stuff from (sorry I cant remember the names of the abilities!) that one that completely cripples a ships movement, shields and guns, to the one that I THINK that robot frigate has of hindering movement?

I know its not really the same as targetable subsystems but its not bad considering the scale of the game. Also I'm not sure how useful it would be in anything other than one on one or small scale engagements because when the fighting gets heavier ships dont last all that long away, so the ability to take out a specific system isnt that important when the things just gonna explode in a few seconds anyway.

However, having said that nexus: the jupiter incident, I thought, handled subsystems really well but then again it was a lot harder to destroy ships in that game.

Anyway my 2 cents
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Inert
Join Date 10/2006
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Reply #12 June 27, 2007 1:07:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
When you have hundreds of frigates, subsystems become irrelevant. The hundreds of frigates become your immediate focus, and not their engines.

Besides, that robotics cruiser can disable some things already. Use it on capital ships.
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Melchiresa
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #13 June 27, 2007 1:12:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
However, having said that nexus: the jupiter incident, I thought, handled subsystems really well but then again it was a lot harder to destroy ships in that game.


Nexus was focusng on a management of a small task force (9 ships max iirc) so the ship systems could afford to be more detailed. In Sins we got warfare on a galactic scale, with 10s to 100s of ships present in any given combat. The amount of firepower you can bring to bear on a target completly negates any usefulness of separating out the subsystems.
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PasDeCharge
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #14 June 27, 2007 1:31:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Nexus was focusng on a management of a small task force (9 ships max iirc) so the ship systems could afford to be more detailed. In Sins we got warfare on a galactic scale, with 10s to 100s of ships present in any given combat. The amount of firepower you can bring to bear on a target completly negates any usefulness of separating out the subsystems.


I said that


Also I'm not sure how useful it would be in anything other than one on one or small scale engagements because when the fighting gets heavier ships dont last all that long away, so the ability to take out a specific system isnt that important when the things just gonna explode in a few seconds anyway.


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DeadlyShoe
Join Date 03/2006
+8
Reply #15 June 27, 2007 6:30:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I think the ST:Armada system is about as complex as you could get in SINS.
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Jperzio
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #16 July 3, 2007 7:54:18 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
and it would be great
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Jperzio
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #17 July 3, 2007 7:55:05 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
i like it on armarda when one of ur engines get blown of that looks soo cool
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Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
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Reply #18 July 3, 2007 8:56:53 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
yes, the armada system would be the maximum that should be implemented and would be fairly cool, precisely because - as has been brought up - in the kind of huge engagements we are dealing with here, targeting subsystems is not and should not be the focus. subsystems are a wonderful idea - for a different kind of game.
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