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ViolentMind

Join Date 07/2007

A bunch of ideas....

After thinking about things a bit more (as far as what might fit into this type of game), and reading a few more posts, I thought I'd bring up some new ideas/suggestions that I haven't seen mentioned yet....

1) Cloaking ships/Anti-Cloaking ships (cloakers visible when attacking another ship only)
1a) This could work for structures too, I guess. Maybe a logistics structure could hide/cloak the fleet defending your planet, or conversely uncloak a cloaked ship that entered the warp well.
1b) An alternative to cloaking could be a Chameleon Device that could emulate an enemy ship type to facilitate a spy mission, or surprise attack.

2) Spy on adjacent enemy (or allied) planets. I'm thinking that there would be some sort of cost associated with the spy attempt, with only a certain chance of success. Upon failure, the planet owner could possibly be notified. Other information gained from a successful spy attempt (could be categorized and selectable) could be general fleet, economic, or empire (planets owned, etc.) information, and the list goes on.
2a) Sabotage comes to mind here too. Maybe if you could successfully send in a spy to disable defensive structures before launching an attack.

3) Worm Hole like travel to another point in your empire. In VGA Planets, this was also a ship ability called Chunneling. Basically a way to get your ships to another point in space without having to physically travel there. Would help if portions of your empire got disconnected, or if your empire was very large. Obviously, the cost of something like this would be high, but would add a lot of strategic options. Could also be a racial ability.

4) Ability to trade/sell technology, among other things (similar to GalCiv)

5) Space phenomena, like ION storms - would disrupt jumps between worlds, or even knock out defenses, or disrupt shields, etc. for a period of time.

6) Some sort of alternative to direct planetary assault (beside cultural influence), like gas bombing/irradiating the population, or landing a war party to capture the planet with its defenses intact (logistics/defensive structures would become yours afterward). This would also save you the time of having to blow all of those things away.

7) Advanced refinery ships/structures that could make Crystal and Metal over a period of time.

8) Self-Destruct mechanism that would damage surrounding ships/structures (including your own).

9) Native life on planets that could enhance, or hinder aspects of colonization, economy, logistics, etc.

10) A super tractor beam that could pull ships within range of Guass guns.

*) Another general question that I have is, and maybe I just didn't look for this hard enough, how do I find out what the capital ship abilities are? Some of the ship descriptions are fairly general. I would like to see some doc on what some of the support ships actually do (this actually goes for any ship that has support capabilities). Better yet, have short descriptions added to ship info screen when the ship is moused over. Could add an interface option to turn on verbose detail on ship descriptions.

**) One last thing...how about being able to choose my own install directory for the game, and/or Stardock for that matter. I think that you are currently restricted to only your Program files directory.

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1b) An alternative to cloaking could be a Chameleon Device that could emulate an enemy ship type to facilitate a spy mission, or surprise attack.

This sounds like a sweet idea, and an original one too, coz ive never seen this b4.

8) Self-Destruct mechanism that would damage surrounding ships/structures (including your own).

read my post on "ship to ship ramming or self-destruct damage" or "rogue comets and Human Error" and you may find your answer.

although the latter doesnt have anything to do with the topic, i did add a bit in it about self-destruct damage.

5) Space phenomena, like ION storms - would disrupt jumps between worlds, or even knock out defenses, or disrupt shields, etc. for a period of time.

another really kewl idea that would make space a bit more than just cold blacky thing in the sky.

9) Native life on planets that could enhance, or hinder aspects of colonization, economy, logistics, etc.

Thats also original as far as i can remember...

*) Another general question that I have is, and maybe I just didn't look for this hard enough, how do I find out what the capital ship abilities are? Some of the ship descriptions are fairly general. I would like to see some doc on what some of the support ships actually do (this actually goes for any ship that has support capabilities). Better yet, have short descriptions added to ship info screen when the ship is moused over. Could add an interface option to turn on verbose detail on ship descriptions.

U aint the only one.

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1 Good idea, definently not he first time someone has suggested cloaking.

1a No, not a very good idea. Would you like to hyper-space next to a supposedly defenseless enemy planet, and suddenly find fighter launching out of no-where, while thate was no way to detect where the structure is

1b That was something that I meant when I suggested (somewhere) about espionage

2 Already talked about- unlikely

2a see above

3 Already talked about- probably not (and I don't like wormholes anyway)

4 Not a bad idea, most likely only with allies I think this will be in (possibly)

5 Quite a good idea, considering I haven't seen it before, but since it isn't already planned or partially in, it probably won't make it into the game, there are more inportant things that they have to do. Although, it wouldn't be hard to script, just to make in-game

6 I think there should be some sort of way to take a planet without destroying defenses, or logistics, but whether or not it is put in is up for debate

7 There could be a ship, or structure for crystals, since they are grown, but definently not anything for metal (and unlikely for crystals due to prioritizing)

8 Talked about so much, I want to puke. (No way)

9 Quite a good idea, I meant to suggest just that at sometime. Make the native race so that at the beginning, it could be a severe problem, but later in the game, you can just wipe themoff the face of the planet with ease (Up for debate)

10 I dislike tractor beams. If you had tractor beams, you could just point one at an incoming fleet, and make tham crunch up together into a ball of scrap metal, completely making the whole point of the game useless

* As said above, You aint the only one (Probably will be fixed)

** That SHOULD be available for the actual game. SHOULD as in, I don't see how they could get away with not allowing you to choose your own directory to install the game.

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+369

Ship info is already present, just not in the beta. It'll be represented in the game manual as well.

You can choose where to install the game already using Stardock Central. If you want to select a particular place for all games go to Tools -> Settings -> Games and change the Installation Path location. If you want to be prompted on a per-application basis, go to Tools -> Settings -> General -> Installation and check Prompt to enter an installation directory.

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1) Cloaking ships/Anti-Cloaking ships (cloakers visible when attacking another ship only)
1a) This could work for structures too, I guess. Maybe a logistics structure could hide/cloak the fleet defending your planet, or conversely uncloak a cloaked ship that entered the warp well.
1b) An alternative to cloaking could be a Chameleon Device that could emulate an enemy ship type to facilitate a spy mission, or surprise attack.

Devs have already said that some form of stealth is in-game, for another race.

And I really hated how spying was implemented in RA/RA2, lets not re-invent that wheel, please.

4) Ability to trade/sell technology, among other things (similar to GalCiv)

Can't really happen. How do you trade techs between two seperate races, with different tech trees?

7) Advanced refinery ships/structures that could make Crystal and Metal over a period of time.

Whats the difference between this and the existing refinery system? Are you asking for the crystal/metal to come out of nowhere, rather than as raw ore from an asteroid (after teh asteroid mine goes kaput, that is).

10) A super tractor beam that could pull ships within range of Guass guns.

Gee, random much?

Actually, planetary defense overhaul has its own thread, or three, that you should post in. Most people tend to aggree that the gauss gun needs tweaking to be more effective, but its general role (close in defense) is exactly what it needs to be. Hangars (and a few other ideas) were thrown around as "grav well control" devices, while gauss cannons were effectively just point defense systems (defend a given point in the grav well).

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1a No, not a very good idea. Would you like to hyper-space next to a supposedly defenseless enemy planet, and suddenly find fighter launching out of no-where, while thate was no way to detect where the structure is

That's where anti-cloaking technology would be vital. Also, this is not to suggest that this type of cloaking tech would be cheap enough to do everywhere. Maybe at just a few key points. Or maybe only so many per empire.

10 I dislike tractor beams. If you had tractor beams, you could just point one at an incoming fleet, and make tham crunch up together into a ball of scrap metal, completely making the whole point of the game useless

I was thinking that you could only tractor one ship at a time, not a general area, with an area effect on multiple ships. That would be too powerful. Also, you would have to target a ship that was already visible.

Can't really happen. How do you trade techs between two seperate races, with different tech trees?

Wasn't sure if there were going to be portions of the tech tree that were common to every race. If so, this could work.

Whats the difference between this and the existing refinery system? Are you asking for the crystal/metal to come out of nowhere, rather than as raw ore from an asteroid (after teh asteroid mine goes kaput, that is).

The difference would be that you would create minerals much more quickly. After an asteroid is mined out, the minerals only tend to trickle in very slowly. This would be a way to get more minerals quickly, and cheaper than purchasing them at the market price.

Gee, random much? Actually, planetary defense overhaul has its own thread, or three, that you should post in. Most people tend to aggree that the gauss gun needs tweaking to be more effective, but its general role (close in defense) is exactly what it needs to be. Hangars (and a few other ideas) were thrown around as "grav well control" devices, while gauss cannons were effectively just point defense systems (defend a given point in the grav well).

Actually, I agreed with what I read on placing structures directly on the planet to protect it from an assault. A tractor beam is something that could be ship based as well, so a capital ship could pull in smaller ships to prevent them from escaping, for example. Pulling ships closer to Guass guns was just one example of the possible tractor beam usage.

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Wasn't sure if there were going to be portions of the tech tree that were common to every race. If so, this could work.

Only part that will be similar across races is the "artifact" tree.

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well since this a rather general idea thread anyhow, I will also express some ideas about space landscape (nubulae, asteroids)

now, apart from the fact that these stuff can have different effects (nubulae can hide stuff, repair or damage ships, asteroid belts can give defense bonus but reduce movement, black holes suck in ships and destroy them) I think they should - if technically feasible - be modelled independently of planetary systems. but this I mean that for example, a part of an asteroid belt reaches into a planetary systems, this making combat there a bit different than in a system where there is no such phenomenon. secondly this implies that there could be big phenomena that touch several planet systems (if just for aristic though of the whole thing). the asteroids in our planetary system between mars and juppiter (I think) is more or less circular for example.

this leads to the last point I intend to make: phenomena that block jump lanes, so ships need to drop out, pass it via normal tavel, then go to phase space again. would also be a nice tactic for a retreating fleet. jump away, drop out near a nubula and hide until reinforcements arrive then launch a two pronged attack. or something like it. in general I like the option of waging limited combat outside planetary zones, but as far as I can determine this is again a very old discussion that should better rest now.

oh, and interdictor cruisers like in star wars?

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I hope that the Vasari Phase Inhibitor ship works like the old inhibitor style and has a limited range.

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Gauntlet03

Join Date 01/2004

+139

like your ideas shadow hal. It would be nice to have in system asteroid fields that could cause damage if not moved around.

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There are other races? wait . . Alien races? Wha?

Please could we use a better word . . please . . just about anything would be better, the word "race" is so wrong on many levels in this context. (and really it has little real meaning in any other context)

Most of these ideas have been in one game or another with varying levels of emplemtation and worth to that game.

None are "bad" ideas . . but not all fit this game . .and the way how that idea is implemented could make or break it.

Personally I feel the game is still . . . Light . . and not fully developed . . I like to see more options and alternate ways to do each task a use the environment. . with alternate ways comes alternate tactics and a more varied and (in my option) more interesting game. The big problem I have with allot of current games is that they lack game play depth. It is very easy after a few games to find the optimum way of playing and then, with little variation, most everyone plays in that manor.
If the environment changes it forces people to adapt to it, if there are more tech then you can ever research in one game (and viable trees) people can/will diversify (even with the same faction), If there is more then one way to attack, defend, Siege, etc then people will try each out and have the option to use each. With out variation the game becomes tedious and boring . .

Though I have to admit some have vary different ideas of what is boring - for example All those people that played MOO3 for any length of time I would think love tedious and boring and enjoy a nasty UI and bad game play . . but still “like” and defend the game - it takes all kinds

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this leads to the last point I intend to make: phenomena that block jump lanes, so ships need to drop out, pass it via normal travel, then go to phase space again. would also be a nice tactic for a retreating fleet. jump away, drop out near a nebula and hide until reinforcements arrive then launch a two pronged attack. or something like it. in general I like the option of waging limited combat outside planetary zones,

dido... makes me think of long a long skinny weird shaped asteroid field or nebula snaking around. it would definitely make the game board more interesting. i imagine this field being "dead" or uninhabitable... and treacherous... and if habitable then the building ring would be far from another asteroid (or ice comment in a nebula)'s building ring. i realize these fields would be large and a pain to travel in, but would really help make game play more diverse and interesting. especially if they gave/took away certain abilities. and since their skinny it shouldn't take too much time if your just passing through.

and yes i know this is unoriginal and has been talked to death in other threads... but i believe in the idea and want the devs to know its important...

so moving on

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What I suspect we need are allot of small buffs/debuffs, abilities/problems . . lots of them and while having a small effect they could add up, modify battles, change economies, etc . . IE you may find a good planet with a good buff/ability but the environment may also enhance or hinder this . . your faction may also change the usefulness, etc etc . . then your tech may be able to mitigate debuffs/problems to allow you to more fully utilize it . . or a random event may make it into a problem or hinder it’s use. . . .etc
The more layers and different types the more combinations and possibilities . .

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If the environment changes it forces people to adapt to it

Exactly how we felt

... but i believe in the idea and want the devs to know its important...

We find these environmental elements important too! We received tons of great ideas from the forum, and you'll see some nice surprises in Beta 3.

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We find these environmental elements important too! We received tons of great ideas from the forum, and you'll see some nice surprises in Beta 3.

Give. Me. Beta. 3. NOW!

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This seems like a good place to shoot some ideas

Why not have the possibility to travel outside the lanes? It should be really slow, your ships shouldn't be able to repair/regenerate shields/restore their antimatter while travelling. But you could do some nasty deep strike surprise attacks

Of course it leaves you extremely vulnerable if you decide to send half you fleet into dead space for 10 (15? 30?) minutes. But it would be a way, albeit risky, to sneak by a heavily turtled opponent.

You could even make it more risky by make it so you couldn't abort the travel after the ships are too far from a gravity well. You know communication in normal space takes a long time. That would make the move a dangerous gambit but could result in spectacular surprise attacks

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This seems like a good place to shoot some ideas

I like it.

another suggestion of my own: government forms. this is a feature common in tbs yet fairly absent in rts games. so far I saw no indication of it being implemented. the idea is that you can select between different forms of government which gives different stats on production, research, economy military, culture, diplomatics, ecology or whatever one can think of. these could be activated by certain techs in the empire tree and there can be some commons between races and some differences.

if you need an example, democracy could bring better values in culture and research whereas dictatorship gives you an experience or production bonus for ships.

then there is also the civ 4 approach where you have a few categories and you can pick one in each. each advantage is also compensated by a certain upkeep i.e. monetary cost.

I'd say don't make it too complicated but a few choices could add to the game and incite and reward more adaptive, individual gameplay.

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Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005

+369

There won't be varying governments in Sins. The TEC is the governmental institution.

As for travel without phase space, that would be pointless. It would literally take hours for ships to travel anywhere.

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As for travel without phase space, that would be pointless. It would literally take hours for ships to travel anywhere.

well the comp can do it in 20 mins

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I have to say there are some really inventive people on these forums. I like alot of the ideas presented except a few, such as the tractor beam, clocking/anti-cloak and self-destruct/ramming. To me a tractor beam has no real military application.

If there is cloaking it has to be very limited, because if anyone can develope cloaking, then everyone has to develope anti-cloaking. With this you add a level of automation to the game where every player has to develope anti-cloaking, just in case another player has developed a cloak. This is restricting the variety of gameplay.

If the self-destruct/ramming thing is done realisticly, then people will just start building cheap fleets just to ram into enemy ships, and the whole game will become way to simple. I can see that some people would like to have the option, if say a ship of theirs is badly damaged. They just want to ram it into an enemy or blow it up in their faces. That might be ok, but I'd rather not even have the option.

Refering back to the cloaking, I said it has to be very limited. By this I mean you can't cloak just anthing. For example I once played a game it was a 3D space RTS. eventually you could build this particular type of missle. you would have only one. you controlled it like a normal unit until you fired it. you need a clear line of sight to fire it, so enemies in an astroid field were a difficult hit. It would fire it's engines for a moment and then deactivate and just glide to the target. It had no power signature and was invisable even to the person who launched it, but it didn't actually have a cloaking system it just couldn't be dedected. After it's launch you couldn't stop it, it was a good super-weapon, one of my all-time favourites.

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starting to get random but...

what about minelayers?

HW had minelayers, they wheren't used all that often, but when they where, they where AWSOME!!

I want minelayers, or if no minelayes, what about a defensive structure that layes mines? like a guass cannon, expect it layes mines.

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Hey!
I already posted that idea!

I would actually love if a host of indirect warfare options where added.
Where's the spies with the ability to temporary disable certain structures in a system?
That causes local unrest, that makes all your production somewhere temporary slow down to a crawl?

The mine layers that let you booby trap space lines?

Spy drones to attach to other players merchant ships?

Elite Storm troopers that could possibly take over enemy ships?

They where hidden in a discussion aboutpirates

This thread seems like a better thread to post them in.

Cheers

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If the self-destruct/ramming thing is done realisticly, then people will just start building cheap fleets just to ram into enemy ships, and the whole game will become way to simple. I can see that some people would like to have the option, if say a ship of theirs is badly damaged. They just want to ram it into an enemy or blow it up in their faces. That might be ok, but I'd rather not even have the option.

hey, i just had a thought. what if you could ram one of your ships, or have a self destruct, but could only use it loke once, then the ability would have to recharge, otherwise other ships would lose morale because they think "omg, the commander is throwing our lives away like old toys". This would eliminate ppls building cheap fleets just to use for ramming. The type of ship could also justify the damage. if a frigate hit a frigate, both go up in flames, but if a frigate hit a cap, the cap would hurt, but not die. so the ram ability would be a rare ability that could only be used once in the short term, but could also be helpful if one of your ships is about to die, and you want to take the enemy with you. and it couldnt be taken advantage of by cheap fleets.

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Waaaaaay too late to come up with ideas like that Galactica. Waaaay to late.

And imposing an artificial global cool down is more of an annoyance than a good idea. Theres not good reasoning behind it past "gameplay balance" -- and that is better served by not having ramming.

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Wow!! I was reading this thread and things "WTF? why does my spidy sense tingle". Then about half way down I noticed a posting date - LOL!!!

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meh, i didnt think it was the brightest bulb in the pack, but i was actually gonna post something similar on the "lets make some new abilities" thread. Its not going to make sins from 9/10 to 10/10 (im not rating sins at all, just giving an example(although, by the looks of this game, 9's pretty close to my actual score)) I just thought it would be interesting. there are some people out there ,*cough* me *cough*, that can get really immersed in their games. For example, when i play Dawn of war, as the space marines, sometimes i can get carried away and send them in screaming "For the empror!". sounds stupid yes, but if A game can do that to you, then its a good game. im willing to buy this game because i think it will do just that. The first thing im going to do is make the biggest fleet i can manage (on my limited knowlege of the game) and get a battle going, just to see it. im gonna ignore everything else, just watch. now this would be a stupid thing to do in a propor game, but this i only practice. The fact that you can name ur ships is awesome as it is, but other factors that make it more (whats the word??) personal.... in other words, more micro. Imagine, i charge in, have a massive battle, only to find that in my n00bish state, i cannot hope to win, so i drag those bastards down with me by blowing 'em up. to do all this, ill just mod my game the way that guy does on the "lets make some new abilities" thread. so meh. thats what i wanna do, dont know about anyone else, just wanna make it more "immersable". The small changes that i do make, can always be reversed if i dont like them, or if i want it back to normal.

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