Oh and i forgot, this was the best case scenario for the smaller ships: no additional research done!
The more researches you do the larger the gap gets between smaller and larger ships as the upgrades do a % bonus to the thing researched and whatever it may be the capship has the staying power to benefit from it much more than many small ships!

So the more the game progresses, the more the gap i have pointed out will spread and caps will get more superior (even further by advancing in levels)

there is a quite simple resolution to this situation:
dont lose your capital ship, dont play into a pissing contest if you know you'll lose. classic noob mistake.


besides I've recovered more than once from losing an only capital ship. that being said I usually cause much more net damage... but still.

and either way if your enemy pushes the advantage while you have no cap ship the game will soon be over anyhow.

Well, I kinda figured they'd read. Of course, even before you changed the title the topic was ignored in favor of a general flagship rant, so I was probably wrong. I wasn't exaggerating though, can't honestly deny the rest of it.

It's not just flagships, it's not even capital ships, it's any advantage. A planet, a botched engagement, losing a constructor to some pirates while it's building the repair station you're about to need. Jumping out takes a long time. Going into a system you just scouted seconds before and finding a dozen carriers is going to mean your flagship is gone before it can turn. There is no way to avoid getting your ass kicked at some point. You can't just run away either, retreating entails rectal bleeding when you jump into an enemy fleet.

In a bigger game, you could retreat to your defenses, sacrifice an outer planet while building up an interior one if you were rapidly overcome, send in new capital ships for brief stints to gain experience before retreating to relative safety. You can pick away at a significantly larger fleet with a bit of time and the right ships. You're probably going to lose anyway, but there's at least a chance. There isn't a chance in small games, nowhere to go. You can't even use massed bombers to try and assassinate the enemy, wont have the fleet allocation for it. Just getting the tactical slots for a couple hangars is going to be a major investment when your empire is three or four planets.

The game is just very unforgiving with small maps. Another game a few days ago was a 2v2, both opponents lost their flagships, one in the first fight, one significantly later. The game was over with that first drop though, there was no turning it around. You can take on small fleets with just a sova, and significantly larger fleets when on the defensive or in a running fight. The replacement ships were easy kills while posing little threat. Kharaks cross isn't even that small a map and it was still decided in the first ten minutes. It's already a pretty good game, better gameplay than most final releases, and more stable than most even after they've been patched a few times. Multiplayer on the other hand is going to be a real pain with needing several hours to play a game that doesn't consist of a single skirmish followed by a losing battle of varied speed, sometimes extremely slow. I don't know what to do with it, drastically increase shield mitigation maybe, but a losing fight just does not work right now.

i like how capital ships are enormously important, i just finished a game where me and my opponent both lost our capitals, and then he rebuilt his and I couldnt; cuz I destroyed my capital yard. (wont do it again)

After that he had the superior capital ship, and I didn't even though I was the one who killed his first. It was a tough game and I won and we both made mistakes but we both made pretty amazing comebacks.

It was harrowing, it was tense, and I loved it... if it were easy to replace Caps or if they were not Godly important it would be less wondersome.

That it has plenty of jokesters?

the rectal bleeding or the being able to retreat?

if anyone i've seen play this game knows how to retreat , its multianna! I swear he is retreating before his ship even takes damage

Most of us have been playing games for quite a long time and are very, very well aware of how counters and balancing works, having seen them in multitudes of games



Not to be mean, but don't exclude yourself from this either. Several people have offered very valid arguments for why it works the way it does, and why it shouldn't be dramatically changed. But they bounce off making no impact

I retreat when i can see that my capship wont survive, and usually i get away with less then 1000 hull points
It all depends on how fast my shield/hull is taking damage

u know its funny I had this exact same debate but a little more serious like yesterday or day before.....

arguments from authority on the internet where no one can actually Verify your experience are mostly lame... they can support an argument slightly but you are likely going to ruin it by doing so. People don't react well to it, and they shouldn't because you shouldn't trust experts just because they are 'experts' look at how strongly they are scrutinized in court cases. Arguing from 'authority' is just poor arguing.

^^I fully agree with you.
I don´t want to elevate my opinions above others, i only wanted to show how and why i have formed my opinions and that they are not only things pulled out of thin air.
And from now on i´ll only 'suggest' that some people seem like they have no idea what they are talking about when they are talking about balance
As you have requested, and as i had already promised i have explained my views and suggestions in another topic, i hope you like the read.

well damn it... that just makes sense.

If its so easy to loose your carrier... then its equally as easy to kill the enemy one. Well unless you stink but then should turn the difficulty down.

Problem solved.

'Tis like I said, high risk/high reward gamble I had pretty much just the same gamble against Ron in our last game. My Sova was almost full health, but I only had a few Cobalts left just after a previous engagement when he jumped in. His Sova was probably half shields and a bit more than half hull, but more Cobalt escorts and he had 1 fighter wing while I had 3 bomber wings with my Sova. I thought if I focused on his Sova with all of my forces I'd be able to get it in its damaged state, but I lost that gamble

yes, the loss of a capital ship in a small game CAN be crippling, but that just is an incentive to surround it with, lets face it, cannon fodder ships, or jump in your smaller ships first then jump in the heavy hitter, i constantly jump cobalts in then my Kodiak's then perchans and finally my cap ships. Though i have lost my main cap ship a few times but came back to win the fight, mostly because i have the Akkan and it isn't my main line ship...