© 2003-2025 Ironclad Games Corporation Vancouver, BC. All rights reserved.
© 2006-2025 Stardock Entertainment
Search
Forum Home | Login
Pithlit
Pithlit
Join Date 04/2006
0

Additional entry points to a starsystem

gas giants

November 16, 2007 12:05:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I had an idea: Currently you can only jump from one star to another the the suns gravwell.
Especially with a whole system in a players hand this is an incredibly awkward chokepoint for others to invade (not to meantion that with the culture its very hard to get a foothold.

If we had multiple nodes to enter a system we had more chances to raid the enemy or enter the system.
My suggestion is that gas giants which are neutral territory aswell could be entry points for incoming fleets aswell.
Of course early ggame when everyone is still struggling only the sun should be the jumppoint, but later on they should open up aswell (possibility for a new, higher tier research after long range jumps)
Idea would either be that they would be a one way street: jumping from a sun to a gas giant (sun has to be the entry point)
or a two way system, gas giant to distant sun also possible.
Or that you could even travel between gas giants from different systems.

Since it is not possible to travel between gas giants of the same system can be explained that the graviational forces of the nearby planets don´t allow the long distance jump.

So you could untilize the gas giants only between systems

I think the game with multiple systems would get much more dynamic and fun as you could try to invade and harass at multiple fronts
What do you think?
Locked Post
Search this post
Advanced Search
Subscription Options
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
2 Pages1 2 
Pithlit
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #1 November 16, 2007 12:08:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I think that this would make random maps quite screwy since a good chunk of the time I seem to end up with a gas giant right next door to my capital

It would open up more strategic possibilities, but it would also mess up stuff, like the above
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Pithlit
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #2 November 16, 2007 12:14:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
mhh, i also had a lot of games where my capitol started directly next to the sun :/
Thats bad i tell you , preferrably i would at least have one planet at all times between my capitol and the sun (set like the asteorid that is always behind your home planet.

that is even worse as enemy forces can come much quicker into my home system.
If the gas giant travel is restricted to a high tech level (like 9 stations) you at least have enough time to prepare and fortify.

Also in late game you can move your capitol to a more favourable position much more easily than early game.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #3 November 16, 2007 12:18:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Oh, if you make it so that you need a lot of civvy labs to research gas giant jumping, that would work better. Your initial post implied it'd be available by default once you research star jumps

Then you just have to make sure to keep all the enemy scouts from finding that gas giant in your solar system, since they can't jump to it if they don't know it's there
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
+24
Reply #4 November 16, 2007 12:31:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
while basically an interesting thought, the challenge in multi star games is already where to station system feets. making more entry points will more likely than not splinter your forces even more, so I'm just not sure if that wouldn't be too wack-a-mole. but I'm open to discussion, I haven't come to any big multi star games, so its just a guess anyway.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
bovi
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #5 November 16, 2007 2:48:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
What is the reason why you can only jump to other stars from your own star anyway? It's not like you're using a slingshot mechanism, and it shouldn't be any harder to jump from a point that has less gravity affecting the ship (seeing as the gravity wells are preventing jumping in general). As for landing in the other system, I think it should still only be at the star, as that is likely the only target you'll be able to detect at the distance, and you can't change directions when underway as it is.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
thetraviler
Join Date 05/2006
+3
Reply #6 November 17, 2007 9:09:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
i actually like the idea of jumping to and from a Gas Giant. this would be a nice tach for later on in the game and it will add some nice significance to gas giants. right now they are kinda useless. Nice asthetics but unless your gonna plan a complicated ambush, there is not really a whole lot else they are good for. I say thumbs up!   
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
+50
Reply #7 November 17, 2007 10:43:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

What is the reason why you can only jump to other stars from your own star anyway? It's not like you're using a slingshot mechanism, and it shouldn't be any harder to jump from a point that has less gravity affecting the ship (seeing as the gravity wells are preventing jumping in general). As for landing in the other system, I think it should still only be at the star, as that is likely the only target you'll be able to detect at the distance, and you can't change directions when underway as it is.


Rough psuedo-science generalization: Gravity wells create "bends" in space time which weaken the fabric of space-time between two of them, allowing ships with phase drive to pass between them. Stars, with their much larger gravity well, create a correspondingly increased distortion which allows for inter-stellar travel. You can't jump out from to close to a planet because... because... because the distortion is so great that the strain will destroy your ship!
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
psychoak
Join Date 07/2007
+225
Reply #8 November 18, 2007 2:48:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
The main problem with multi-star maps is culture making a foothold impossible, not actually getting through the star, isn't it? I mean, it's neutral territory, if your entire fleet can't take the place down, his entire fleet can take yours instead. You're just stuck with nowhere to go and eventual demise after you break through because there's nowhere to fortify and create a second front from.

If the culture system gets fixed it should be much easier to get through.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
bovi
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #9 November 18, 2007 3:30:06 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Rough psuedo-science generalization

Nice, I can accept that . Then it's just a matter of choosing whether interstar travel should be available from anywhere.

It would even explain why ships that drop out of hyperspace in between gravity wells can't restart the jump and have to snail along the line. But that dropping out is really, really annoying and would be mitigated if a ship could initiate jumping (along lanes) from anywhere there's not a gravity well.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Admiral_Kiernyc
Join Date 09/2007
+18
Reply #10 November 18, 2007 8:13:06 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
There is an artifact that allows you to jump to other stars from that planet. EXTREMELY useful...except I've only seen it in a game where there was one star lol...
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
+50
Reply #11 November 18, 2007 9:26:47 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
It would even explain why ships that drop out of hyperspace in between gravity wells can't restart the jump and have to snail along the line. But that dropping out is really, really annoying and would be mitigated if a ship could initiate jumping (along lanes) from anywhere there's not a gravity well.


THAT is one of the most annoying bugs I've ever seen. (And despite rumors to the contrary, has nothing to do with the Vasari cruisers...)

There is an artifact that allows you to jump to other stars from that planet. EXTREMELY useful...except I've only seen it in a game where there was one star lol...


What? Since when? Are you thinking of the jump drive relic, which only allows interstellar travel in a manner just like the civic technology?
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
+24
Reply #12 November 18, 2007 9:53:28 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums


There is an artifact that allows you to jump to other stars from that planet. EXTREMELY useful...except I've only seen it in a game where there was one star lol...


What? Since when? Are you thinking of the jump drive relic, which only allows interstellar travel in a manner just like the civic technology?


only had it once and it didn't enable IS jump from the planet. I wonder if it would even make sense. as it is you have to station your fleet at the sun anyways, as it is there that enemies are incoming and having an IS capable planet would only have the benefit of making it a bit faster (sun GWs are big and take a while to transit). so the source is less of an issue than the destination is.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Admiral_Kiernyc
Join Date 09/2007
+18
Reply #13 November 18, 2007 9:56:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
lol i was wrong then.....what does it do?!
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
+50
Reply #14 November 18, 2007 10:50:48 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

lol i was wrong then.....what does it do?!


Its a duplicate of the interstellar jump tech
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Admiral_Kiernyc
Join Date 09/2007
+18
Reply #15 November 18, 2007 11:37:00 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
so it's like it has its own phase gate?? omg i'm so confused
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
+50
Reply #16 November 18, 2007 11:48:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

so it's like it has its own phase gate?? omg i'm so confused


If you get the jump artifact, it acts as an exact duplicate of the long range jump technology -- you can jump from star A to star B, at the stars to the stars.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Admiral_Kiernyc
Join Date 09/2007
+18
Reply #17 November 18, 2007 12:40:05 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
OH OK now I get it so you don't have to research that if you have the relic!
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Schod
Join Date 10/2006
+1
Reply #18 November 18, 2007 12:55:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Rough psuedo-science generalization: Gravity wells create "bends" in space time which weaken the fabric of space-time between two of them, allowing ships with phase drive to pass between them. Stars, with their much larger gravity well, create a correspondingly increased distortion which allows for inter-stellar travel. You can't jump out from to close to a planet because... because... because the distortion is so great that the strain will destroy your ship!

I think the rough psuedo-science generlization was more along the lines of throwing darts: phasespace fails in gravity wells, so the only way to keep yourself from flying off into infinity is to hit a gravity well. its unsafe to jump to other solar system's planets from your own g-well because you risk missing by way too much.
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Pithlit
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #19 November 18, 2007 1:00:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
And thats why you need some high tech equipment like "Advanced jumprange calculators" to aim for smaller (yet still huge) gravwells like gas giants
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #20 November 18, 2007 2:55:43 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
The difference in magnitude of a gas giant's gravity and a star's gravity is way, way, way beyond 'huge'
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
bovi
Join Date 03/2006
0
Reply #21 November 18, 2007 3:32:30 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Indeed. http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/DavidEngel.shtml
Sun 1.989 × 10^30
Mercury 3.302 × 10^23
Venus 4.868 × 10^24
Earth 5.974 × 10^24
Mars 6.418 × 10^23
Jupiter 1.899 × 10^27
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Pithlit
Join Date 04/2006
0
Reply #22 November 18, 2007 5:16:41 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
its only a factor of 1000, thats like the difference between a normal microscope and an electron microscope.
So it could be doable by technology ^^
While normal planets are more like factor 1.000.000 which is wayy more
I thought it would be more than 1000, damn those gas giants are huge!
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #23 November 18, 2007 6:44:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Your view of it is fairly odd.. the sun contains 99.86% of the mass of the entire solar system, so Jupiter and all the other planets make up only .14%. That difference in gravity is so enormous that I sincerely doubt even pseudo science could explain how such technology could be researched in Sins
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
thetraviler
Join Date 05/2006
+3
Reply #24 November 18, 2007 6:56:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
either way the, pseudo science can be created to explain any game feature we want. So from a game play perspective, what are your thoughts? do you like only haveing a single entry point? it really is the ultimit choke point. however maybe its alittle too ultimit, especially with the increased antimater. I do like the idea of the game board becoming more connected in late game.

MAYBE this should be a TEC only tech for late game. Yes they are less advanced. but according to the Lor, they show their resiliance in as time goes on. And since this whole area of space was the TECs to begin with, maybe this would be a good ace up the sleeve. somthing that can maybe start to counter the Black Fleet, and jump gates of the Vasari? what do you guys think of this idea?
Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Pithlit
Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #25 November 18, 2007 6:58:59 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
So from a game play perspective, what are your thoughts?


Replies #1 and #3

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
2 Pages1 2 
View all recent posts
Mark all posts as read Delete cookies created by the forum Return to Top
Stardock Forums v        Server Load Time:   Page Render Time: