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TwiSteDeViLx
TwiSteDeViLx
Join Date 01/2008
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tracers!

January 19, 2008 9:20:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
After only finding out about this game recently (for which i'm forever thankful not sure if i could stand waiting months for this)

I've watched the beta 4 video's and I'm abit dissapointed with the fighting between the capital ships, it just doesn't look epic enough for me. I've always imagined these enormous machines of death to be full to the brim with guns of all sorts. The fighting I've seen only really shows a few kinds of guns being used what i wanted to see what hundreds of tracers being fired as in battle star Gallactica.

http://www.genarts.com/bsg-pics/bsg-battle-scene.jpg (linky linky)

Secondly surely not every round will hit it's mark, now i understand this is the future but for eye candy's sake it would look nicer if there were more misses and more shots being fired.

Just my opinion what do you all think?
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TwiSteDeViLx
RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #1 January 19, 2008 9:56:14 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just my opinion what do you all think?


I agree, in principle, for the desire for both missed shots and an increased volume of fire. That said, the sheer modability of this game is incredible. The following two changes should be doable just from the .entity files, by any layman:

1. Increase the number of shots fired (no balance change): you can increase the graphical appearance of how many shots are fired by increasing the shots fired per volley, and assuming I recall correctly thats a graphical value only, with no game balance issues.

2. Include minor to moderate miss chance (small balance issues, notably revolving around Akkan's increase to hit chance -- may need a minor damage increase to maintain DPS, to avoid other balance issues).
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TwiSteDeViLx
M1dKn1ght
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 January 19, 2008 11:21:25 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
True, but it may be more cpu efficient if they implemented the increased shot volume as purely graphical, not fully modeled projectiles. That way it will look much more spectacular, and you don't have any balance issues to iron out.
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TwiSteDeViLx
Admiral_Kiernyc
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #3 January 19, 2008 1:42:20 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
lol it would look great but many a computer would probably blow up!
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TwiSteDeViLx
xthetenth
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #4 January 19, 2008 2:34:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
do it!

I've already upped the volley size on every ship i've messed with because it looks cool.

I'd love missed shots though. Please add them sometime, It'd just look to sweet to pass up.
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TwiSteDeViLx
TwiSteDeViLx
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #5 January 19, 2008 2:50:57 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Missed shots could be purely graphical so as to avoid any balance problems the ships would still do the same damage this should also be put in the graphics options to be toggled on off.

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Tsed
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Reply #6 January 19, 2008 3:08:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Just so you can see what you can get with a little modding (this was just a first attempt at getting the effect in an earlier beta, but serves to show what you can get with just minor modding).

Kol's with increased firing dueling it out.
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TwiSteDeViLx
xthetenth
Join Date 06/2007
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Reply #7 January 19, 2008 4:01:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
That is absolutely awesome. Just add some missed shots to that effect and it will be EPIC!
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TwiSteDeViLx
Tsed
Join Date 01/2007
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Reply #8 January 19, 2008 4:14:32 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Honestly, if the firing rates aren't to my liking in final, I'll probably just make a small "battle spice" mod to get everything looking to my liking without changing balance and upload it somewhere for anyone who's interested, so, whatever. I'm not terribly interested in adding a miss chance, as it'll affect balance (something I'm *not* out to do), but increased volley size usually results in a perceived miss rate -- as if you're firing against a moving target, the volley "trail" tends to fall off target eventually.

(also keep in mind that that was a very early video -- I've gotten effects I'm much happier with now, but before changing *everything*, I want to see the final effects, many of which are supposed to be nicer. )
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TwiSteDeViLx
eetmorslckrs
Join Date 02/2007
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Reply #9 January 19, 2008 4:27:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
upload it to sins.bz multi will love joo
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TwiSteDeViLx
AvatarCenturion
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #10 January 19, 2008 4:45:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
how did you do that!!!?
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TwiSteDeViLx
Tsed
Join Date 01/2007
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Reply #11 January 19, 2008 4:54:06 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
That was just going into the Kol's entity file and changing the "cooldown" value for its autocannons (and decreasing damage appropriately) and increasing volley size. Really a simple change -- the only work involved is doing it for allll ships. Gets a bit tedious

More recently, I played with replacing TEC "lasers" with flashbeams of the Kol's beam color. Modding these things is *really* easy.


Like so -- FlashyBeam Battle

Edit: to be a bit more explicit:

Open CAPITALSHIP_TECHBATTLESHIP.entity in the GameInfo folder:

(areas useful to change marked with "<<")

Weapon
WeaponType "Projectile"
damageEnums
AttackType "CAPITALSHIP"
DamageAffectType "AFFECTS_SHIELDS_AND_HULL"
DamageApplyType "BACKLOADED"
DamageType "PHYSICAL"
WeaponClassType "AUTOCANNON"
DamagePerBank:FRONT 27.000000 << Changed these as appropriate to maintain DPS
DamagePerBank:BACK 49.500000 <<
DamagePerBank:LEFT 49.500000 <<
DamagePerBank:RIGHT 27.000000 <<
Range 5000.000000
PreBuffCooldownTime 4.500000 << Controls how often the ship will fire. I think in that video, I dropped it to ~1second
CanFireAtFighter FALSE
SynchronizedTargeting FALSE
PointStaggerDelay 1.000000
TravelSpeed 4000.000000
Duration 0.000000
WeaponEffects
WeaponType "Projectile"
BurstCount 15 << This controls the volley size. This is soley a visual effect -- no damage changes.
BurstDelay 0.060000 << Controls the separation of the individual burst components. Decrease to "clump" the burst more, increase to space out the individual projectiles.
MuzzleEffectName "Weapon_TechCapitalAutoCannonHeavy_Muzzle"
NumMuzzleSoundIDs 3
SoundID "WEAPON_TECHCAPITALAUTOCANNONHEAVY_MUZZLE"
SoundID "WEAPON_TECHCAPITALAUTOCANNONHEAVY_MUZZLE_ALT1"
SoundID "WEAPON_TECHCAPITALAUTOCANNONHEAVY_MUZZLE_ALT2"
MuzzleSoundMinRespawnTime 0.770000
HitEffectName "Weapon_TechCapitalAutoCannonHeavy_Hit"
HitHullEffectSoundID "WEAPONIMPACT_PHYSICALHEAVY_HITHULL"
HitShieldsEffectSoundID "WEAPONIMPACT_GENERICHEAVY_HITSHIELDS"
ProjectileTravelEffectName "Weapon_TechCapitalAutoCannonHeavy_Travel"
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TwiSteDeViLx
Prezo
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #12 January 19, 2008 5:25:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
the bfg mod will have alot more ordanence flying around go have a look at our cap ship for one of our races ... every single gun on that will be firing shots thats 6 lasers and uncountable amounts of smaller cannons meaning there will be some serious light shows and if we can get a miss rate working all the better (unlike everyone else we *want* to upset the balance   )
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TwiSteDeViLx
TwiSteDeViLx
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Reply #13 January 19, 2008 6:25:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
If the client i'm running on is modified, wouldn't that mean that it differs from other people's then stopping online play?
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RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #14 January 19, 2008 9:37:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If the client i'm running on is modified, wouldn't that mean that it differs from other people's then stopping online play?


Yes.
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TwiSteDeViLx
Raymundus
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #15 January 19, 2008 10:10:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
A question about modding in Sins, I see you guys talking about mods affecting the client and stopping online play, does this mean that mods in sins require us to edit/overwrite the game's base files every time we want to switch between regular/mod play?

I was really hoping it would be something simple, like a mod folder that you could stick copies of the modified files in, and an ingame option to play Sins vanilla or have it read the altered files out of the folder.

Not having played yet I do not know which is the case, but if the game is going to be super mod friendly (since it sounds like we are being given fancy tools) then I hope there is some kind of easy and clean way to switch between mods without copying and pasting files and folders every time.

And if this isn't included yet then it sure would be nice as a future feature. Having to muck about in the game files, potentially rendering the client unplayable online, always scares a lot of casual players from ever exploring mod possibilities.
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RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #16 January 19, 2008 10:26:36 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I'm definitely in agreement that some sort of mod control should have been implemented! However, they haven't done so in any of the beta's to date, nor has there been any mention of doing so... so we're probably SOL, and stuck with overwriting the "base" files. Bad decision...
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TwAgIssmuDe
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #17 January 19, 2008 10:32:19 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I can't wait to get my hands on this game, already preordered it, battlesequences similar to BSG, WOW!!! Reminds me of good old Homeworld 2..
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lordkosc
Join Date 12/2006
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Reply #18 January 19, 2008 10:37:04 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
mmmm can't wait for some good mods
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elias001
Join Date 03/2006
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Reply #19 January 19, 2008 11:09:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I have a question, suppose i am playing my friend who has modded his ships with an increase volleys of firing, but if those extra shots are just for pretty graphics, and one of those missed shots just hitted one of my ships but does no damage, would it be pointless to increase the amount of firing in the first place.
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RonLugge
Join Date 05/2004
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Reply #20 January 19, 2008 11:27:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Changing the number of shots is, IIRC, a purely graphical change -- it makes things look prettier, and not much else.
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hydrocarbn
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #21 January 20, 2008 5:44:36 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm definitely in agreement that some sort of mod control should have been implemented! However, they haven't done so in any of the beta's to date, nor has there been any mention of doing so... so we're probably SOL, and stuck with overwriting the "base" files. Bad decision...


Uh, can't you just copy the folder?
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Prezo
Join Date 09/2007
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Reply #22 January 20, 2008 6:31:22 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
i heard that we will have a mod folder but that is just me trying to use my already shoddy memory. but on the other hand i currently have 2 lots of sins installed 1 that is the current release and 1 that is the current release + mods
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Photino
Join Date 01/2007
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Reply #23 January 20, 2008 7:00:20 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm definitely in agreement that some sort of mod control should have been implemented! However, they haven't done so in any of the beta's to date, nor has there been any mention of doing so... so we're probably SOL, and stuck with overwriting the "base" files. Bad decision...


Uh, can't you just copy the folder?


Yeah, just keep copies of the relivant folders for various mods handy. Overwrite the ones that already exist when you want to switch between various mods or back to vanilla. Not quite as efficient as an ingame Game Manager, but still fairly simple.

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RonLugge
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Reply #24 January 20, 2008 9:57:27 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums


Uh, can't you just copy the folder?


Yes, but thats not as easy, can't be done from in-game, and has more opportunities for screwups.
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TwiSteDeViLx
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Reply #25 January 20, 2008 3:04:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
i'd much rather they just make the shots per volley etc changeable in the graphics options, so i can still play online whilst keeping the pretty bullet effects.
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