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archpsi
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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flaks the anti LRM?

February 12, 2008 2:32:48 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
not sure if this was mentioned before, but based on the files flaks(antifighter ships) actually do 100% damage to long range missile ships(LRM).
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archpsi
Windexglow
Join Date 07/2007
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Reply #1 February 12, 2008 2:36:01 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
..Nice! Will try out tomarroe.
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archpsi
EMH2006
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #2 February 12, 2008 1:24:54 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
where can you read this in the files?
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archpsi
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #3 February 12, 2008 10:21:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
the entity files from the mod package thats at https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/?forumid=443&aid=176875
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archpsi
Woas
Join Date 03/2003
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Reply #4 February 13, 2008 2:26:56 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Fighters and scouts do 200% damage to LRMs.
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innociv
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #5 February 13, 2008 4:11:51 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Frigate spam is annoying in general and everything should do 2000% damage to them.
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archpsi
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #6 February 13, 2008 6:37:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Fighters and scouts do 200% damage to LRMs.


didnt realize scouts did, hmm with their no cost and no supply demand, it could actually be effective to use them as part of a fleet.




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archpsi
EMH2006
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #7 February 13, 2008 6:59:20 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Flak are more flexible. Id do scouts if i didnt have flak vs lrm but if i had flak i would go it for sure.
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archpsi
Darkreaver1980
Join Date 09/2006
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Reply #8 February 13, 2008 7:21:53 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
flaks only take 25% damage from LRM. flaks have high hitpoints too, so theyre nearly undestroyable by flaks while the LRM get full damage by the flak guns.

thats fighters + flaks + scouts...3 counters for one ship! pick one!
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Space Cowgirl
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #9 February 14, 2008 2:22:01 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Do all races flaks do this? Like Advent defenders?
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Geir389
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #10 February 14, 2008 2:36:20 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Well i think its based on the weapon types. the flak is the Tec anti fighter craft. The Vasari antifighter uses torpedo's and i don't remember what the Advent anti fighter uses, but they are supposedly good as support craft in general.
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Billyjoeray
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #11 February 14, 2008 3:05:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Yeah not surprising, ive notcied that Garda Flak Frigates chew holes in my LRMs whenever i visit uncolonized worlds.


Still though, LRMs can destroy them pretty easily, i wouldnt say they're anti-LRM; thats why you have fighters.
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archpsi
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #12 February 14, 2008 3:33:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
anyway I've been testing in 1v1 using a mixed force of assailants and sentinels (it was close to 50% each) vs people who go mass LRM/illuminators and it works extremely well.

you have to move the flaks close to the LRM's/illuminators (let the opponent move his illuminators to you, since he might be thinking of the same idea) so each of the flaks can fire on up to 4 targets at the same time (doing 20 dps to enemy group instead of 5 dps).

however this is good for 1v1 where the opponent is spamming a specific LRM, im not sure how the above mixed group will do once theres different things like heavy cruisers for each side and so on.

also theres many other variables like how you use the caps and so on.
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TwiSteDeViLx
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #13 February 14, 2008 3:38:39 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
Pirates are fine to me as they are they've already been nerfed in the last patch, i don't see any real reason to nerf the again. Just have to make sure that you always have them on the enemy.
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archpsi
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #14 February 14, 2008 3:49:00 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Do all races flaks do this? Like Advent defenders?


yes, if you like I will compare illuminator vs defender.

dps:
illuminator hitting 3 defenders will do 15.6 dps (5.2 dps per beam).
defender hitting 4 illuminators will do 22.2 dps (5.55 dps per side).

cost and supply:
illuminator costs credits 350, metal 50, 40 crystal and 6 supply.
defender costs credits 350, metal 40, crystal 20 and 3 supply.

hp shields and armour:
illuminator 500 hp, 500 shields and 2 armour.
defender 650 hp, 620 shields and 3.5 armour.

range (however Im sure both players will move close to each other to get maximum amount of beams..ect):
illuminator 4800.
defender 3000.

the reason no one spams only flaks is due to the reason that they are only good vs siege, fighters/bombers and LRM (assailant, illuminator, LRM), but not too much vs others. If your opponent is only spamming LRM, adding flaks as part of the fleet and not the whole fleet will help a lot.
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innociv
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #15 February 14, 2008 1:18:42 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums
I've been spamming flaks lately.

With Heavy armor and around 50% more hp/shields per resources/credits cost, and only 3 supply, they are extremely useful imo.
They might be only good at DAMAGING lrm's, fighters, bombers. But they are good at tanking anything.
AND lrm's and squadrans are the deadliest units in the game against most unit types, including your cap ships. If you neutralize bombers and lrms your cap ships can do clean up.

At the very least, it scares people to see they are so outnumbered

I'm making half my fleets up of flaks now and it's proving very very effective, largely because almsot everyone spams lrms or assailants.

You'll note that Illuminators are better against defenders than assailants or javs are. Illuminators have anticap which is 100% damage to them, javs and assailants have antimedium which is 75%.(Someone said 25%, they are wrong.)

So far I like vasari's flaks the most, as they use phase missiles, but I haven't tried a defender spam yet.
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archpsi
PeskyFly
Join Date 08/2007
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Reply #16 February 16, 2008 2:08:41 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've been spamming flaks lately.

With Heavy armor and around 50% more hp/shields per resources/credits cost, and only 3 supply, they are extremely useful imo.
They might be only good at DAMAGING lrm's, fighters, bombers. But they are good at tanking anything.
AND lrm's and squadrans are the deadliest units in the game against most unit types, including your cap ships. If you neutralize bombers and lrms your cap ships can do clean up.

At the very least, it scares people to see they are so outnumbered

I'm making half my fleets up of flaks now and it's proving very very effective, largely because almsot everyone spams lrms or assailants.

You'll note that Illuminators are better against defenders than assailants or javs are. Illuminators have anticap which is 100% damage to them, javs and assailants have antimedium which is 75%.(Someone said 25%, they are wrong.)

So far I like vasari's flaks the most, as they use phase missiles, but I haven't tried a defender spam yet.


Statistically, the Vasari's Junsurak Sentinel is the strongest strikecraft-defense frigate, but due to it's price and supply requirements, it's effectiveness is about equal to the Advent's Defense Vessel. The TEC Garda Flak has weaker weaponry but is more durable than the others.

Junsurak Sentinel:

Cost: 400
Metal: 50
Crystal: 30
Supply: 5

Shields: 550
Armor: 3.5
Hit Points: 875

DPS Per side vs VeryLight: 7.5 Area-Effect
DPS Per side vs Light : 5.0 Shield-Negating Area-Effect

Defense Vessel:

Cost: 350
Metal: 40
Crystal: 20
Supply: 3

Shields: 620
Armor: 3.5
Hit Points: 650

DPS Per side vs VeryLight: 8.2
DPS Per side vs Light : 5.5

Garda Flak Frigate:

Cost: 375
Metal: 40
Crystal: 25
Supply: 4

Shields: 450
Armor: 4.0
Hit Points: 900

DPS Per side vs VeryLight: 7.0
DPS Per side vs Light : 4.7

Yes, the Sentinel's DPS/Side is lower than the Defense Vessel, but it uses Charged Phase Missiles and can hit several strikecraft at once. Against LRMs, siege vessels, and scouts, the missiles can ignore shields while the Defense Vessel's lasers cannot.
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archpsi
archpsi
Join Date 02/2006
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Reply #17 February 16, 2008 6:21:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

They might be only good at DAMAGING lrm's, fighters, bombers. But they are good at tanking anything.
AND lrm's and squadrans are the deadliest units in the game against most unit types, including your cap ships. If you neutralize bombers and lrms your cap ships can do clean up.


when I meant not spamming only flaks, I meant just that. I was saying why not to make a fleet composed of 100% flaks and implying that they only do decent damage vs the things I mentioned and thus would be extremely slow in spearheading into enemy territory.

as you said and I have in post 12, a mixed force of flak and LRM do quite well (maybe vasari, but im guessing other races), they take care of LRM and light frigates and fighters/bombers.

I will write later what happens with a 100% flak force(not that I tried it, someone did vs me), just gtg.

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