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Water-boarding, Simple yes or no!

philosophy
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Moderateman
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Reply #26 February 14, 2008 2:49:37 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
LocamamaFebruary 14, 2008 14:01:36Reply #2


Maybe you should start reading what exactly they do to our men when they capture them before making a statement like that.


I know that much worse things have been done to our soldiers but I think we have to take the high road. I don't think we can condemn other's torture if we are doing the same.


That only applies if you think water boarding is torture. I for one don't.
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SilentPoet
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Reply #27 February 14, 2008 3:12:39 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
In my eyes, waterboarding is still torture. So no, it is not right at all.

Peace, ~Lucas
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Death_By_Beebles
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Reply #28 February 14, 2008 4:16:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Moderateman, if treating people humanely is "utter crap", perhaps you need to do some long hard thinking about your personal ethics. I'm loving the personal attacks, by the way.

Also, FYI, The federal torture statute, 18 U.S.C. § 2340A, prohibits acts outside the United States that are specifically intended to cause “severe physical or mental pain or suffering.” And waterboarding is torture under that definiton. Waterboarding, as an interogation technique, causes "severe physical suffering in the form of reflexive choking, gagging, and the feeling of suffocation. It may cause severe pain in some cases. If uninterrupted, waterboarding will cause death by suffocation. It is also foreseeable that waterboarding, by producing an experience of drowning, will cause severe mental pain and suffering. The technique is a form of mock execution by suffocation with water. The process incapacitates the victim from drawing breath, and causes panic, distress, and terror of imminent death. Many victims of waterboarding suffer prolonged mental harm for years and even decades afterward. "

Don't try to argue that a chicken isn't a chicken.

Furthermore, you are denying another human being their rights as a human being by waterboarding them. This is intrinsically wrong. You are violating their sanctity of mind and body.
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Moderateman
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Reply #29 February 15, 2008 2:02:08 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

  

Reply By: Death_By_BeeblesPosted: Thursday, February 14, 2008
Moderateman, if treating people humanely is "utter crap", perhaps you need to do some long hard thinking about your personal ethics. I'm loving the personal attacks, by the way.

When it comes to family I pretty much throw out the rule book.

Apologies for anything said that was personal, I just have a real hard time believing people would not water board someone to rescue a loved one.

The technique is a form of mock execution by suffocation with water. The process incapacitates the victim from drawing breath, and causes panic, distress, and terror of imminent death. Many victims of waterboarding suffer prolonged mental harm for years and even decades afterward. "

Don't try to argue that a chicken isn't a chicken.

Did you know that some of out own highly trained troops go through water boarding to prepare them for what might happen to them?

Furthermore, you are denying another human being their rights as a human being by waterboarding them. This is intrinsically wrong. You are violating their sanctity of mind and body.

Yes I do know this. Again, Kidnap Colleen {my Wife}, pay the price of denying her, her civil rights.

 

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Reply #30 February 15, 2008 2:49:19 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Apologies for anything said that was personal, I just have a real hard time believing people would not water board someone to rescue a loved one.


Start believing.

Did you know that some of out own highly trained troops go through water boarding to prepare them for what might happen to them?


This claim has nothing to do with Waterboarding not being torture. If our own government waterboards our soldiers, then that government is just as guilty of torture as you would be if you waterboarded someone.

Yes I do know this. Again, Kidnap Colleen {my Wife}, pay the price of denying her, her civil rights.


So, an eye for an eye is okay with you?

Furthermore, she's been kidnapped. This is most certainly a violation of rights, but they aren't trying to kill her, like you would be trying to kill one of their own. If a man steals your apple, would you chop off his hand?
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Moderateman
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Reply #31 February 15, 2008 3:25:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

(Citizen)Death_By_BeeblesFebruary 15, 2008 14:49:19Reply #33


So, an eye for an eye is okay with you?


yes, Jewish fellow here, old Testament man myself.

.
This claim has nothing to do with Waterboarding not being torture. If our own government waterboards our soldiers, then that government is just as guilty of torture as you would be if you waterboarded someone.


You have the choice of refusing this treatment if you so choose, all that happens to you is you "wash out" of training.

I am glad you stand so firmly in your convictions, But this is just a philosophical discussion, I think the reality might play out a little differently.

If a man steals your apple, would you chop off his hand?


Nope, not if he was hungry, if he was just stealing for stealings sake, I would just ask him to put it back. I am not a complete savage, I even know not to pee on the rugs.
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Reply #32 February 15, 2008 3:25:40 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
So let's quit shooting our enemies, since we don't want our family memebers shot. Let's not drop another bomb, since we wouldn't want a bomb dropped on us. Let's just sit around the campfire singing Kum Bayah, since we know that music calms the savage beast.

Of course, that also means we give in to the terrorists, and we can't do that either because we wouldn't want our loved ones to have to live under Shariah law...

Such predicaments.
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Death_By_Beebles
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Reply #33 February 16, 2008 11:15:16 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
yes, Jewish fellow here, old Testament man myself.


Interesting to note (although not very relevant), Exodus asks that the guilty party give up their eye if they put out another's. It was not the injured person's to take.

So let's quit shooting our enemies, since we don't want our family memebers shot. Let's not drop another bomb, since we wouldn't want a bomb dropped on us. Let's just sit around the campfire singing Kum Bayah, since we know that music calms the savage beast.


Sir, you miss the point. I'm not advocating that we lay down weapons and go our merry way; in fact, I believe that we have a right to (if need be) violent self-defense. I am, however, arguing that torture is wrong. If you don't believe that torture is wrong, then explain yourself; give your arguments in that field. Do not try to exaggerate and exacerbate my claim.
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ParaTed2k
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Reply #34 February 16, 2008 1:18:04 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I exagerated nothing, I simply used the same logic you used.

I am against torture, however, waterboarding isn't torture.

It also needs to be pointed out that very few detainees are ever waterboarded. The only ones that are are hardcore Al Qaeda and Taliban leadership who have information. It is a waste of time interogate any of the other detainees to that extent. The press and others make it sound like every detainee is waterboarded.
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Reply #35 February 17, 2008 12:17:23 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

Reply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Saturday, February 16, 2008
I exagerated nothing, I simply used the same logic you used.

I am against torture, however, waterboarding isn't torture.

It also needs to be pointed out that very few detainees are ever waterboarded. The only ones that are are hardcore Al Qaeda and Taliban leadership who have information. It is a waste of time interogate any of the other detainees to that extent. The press and others make it sound like every detainee is waterboarded.

Acorring to the Government only three top level Al queda people have been water boarded. Three.!!! but the liberal press has made it seem like three thousand.

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