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"friday five" ... YOU have the answers for everything !

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July 30, 2004 2:21:45 AM from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums


the following five statements are amongst those i read/heard in the media this week. taken out of context this way, they represent questions all of their own.


so, would you say the following statements are TRUE or FALSE, and why ?



1/ abortion should remain a womans' right


2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances


3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals


4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry


5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime



let me say again that everybody is welcome. the purpose here is to talk about issues without fear of reprisal, and to share opinions in a relaxed way. (well, i hope so anyway !). as always, please feel free to skip or amend any question for personal or other reasons. thanks. mig XX
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mignuna
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Reply #1 July 30, 2004 2:38:21 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right True. If you don't agree with it, that's fine with me, but if I were pregnant now the life that I could offer a child would not be fair on them or me. I think we're all allow to make a mistake. I do NOT agree with people who use abortions as a form of contraception (for want of a better word)

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances False. War sucks. War is horrible. War leads to far many senseless deaths and broken lives. BUT sometimes there are things that need to be fought against. To use and oldie but a goodies as an example - what if no one has fought Hitler? (Even though they were a little late as it was)

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals I don't know on this one. I don't think you can
rehabilitate career criminals. Which sounds like a truly defeatist statement but the revolving door prison system seems to be in good working order and showing us constantly how likely people are to reoffend. I imagine that you could rehabilitate a small number of them, but that would require and entire shakeup of the prison system so that the inmates learn how to be honest rather than simply refining their skills as crims.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry True. True, true, true, true, true.


5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime Another tricky one. I think that it is part of the problem. So I guess I'd say true. HOWEVER, the reasons for the poor parenting are many and varied and need to be addressed by society. And there are some cases where regardless of how great parents have been, kids still do bad things. I don't jump on the blame the parents bandwagon, but I do think that they have somehow allowed these crimes to be committed.

Oooh - provoking migs. I don't really like many of my answers but i tried to be as honest as possible. Sadly I am such a grey area person but I tried to pick one side or the other. Even doing that I have a tonne of qualifiers!

Hope you're feeling better!

Suz xxx
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Reply #2 July 30, 2004 2:41:15 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry True. True, true, true, true, true.


I'll qualify that, actually. I think this should be dependent on age. Don't want kiddies in 'love' getting hitched.
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Reply #3 July 30, 2004 3:11:17 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

qualification accepted, suz !. thanks for your answer chicky. i'm hoping for a few more so i can "hide" mine amongst them hehe

mig XX
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Reply #4 July 30, 2004 3:18:42 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
i'm hoping for a few more so i can "hide" mine amongst them hehe


Ahhh - be out and proud migs - we wouldn't expect anything less from you! Look at you being all controversial this week. I LOVE it! xxx
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Reply #5 July 30, 2004 3:32:54 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Look at you being all controversial this week. I LOVE it


it's the laryngitis. i really DO think my head is going to explode, i'm not kidding !!!

oh no, there it goes nowwwwwwwwwwwwwww


mig XX
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Reply #6 July 30, 2004 6:24:28 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right

False. I am going out on a limb here, but there certainly are situations where the bloke has been tricked into inpregnating a woman - i.e. Lying about the pill etc. There are also cases where the woman would just have irrational maternal thoughts regarding keeping the baby - where the bloke could possibly be in a better situation to make a logical conclussion if they are not ready for the baby... This is a mine field - but at the end of the day, both parties are responsible for the child, so there should be equal responsibility...

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances

False - War is a necessary evil due to the negative aspects of human nature... change human nature, and it will always be wrong. I wish you luck in you quest!

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals

I simply can't answer this - I like to have faith in human nature, and the possibility of rehab for someone who has been in the system for so long, but I just cant see it... I want to see it...

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry

True - I dont care... marraige is an archaic tradition anyway... get with the times. (for all you inbreds reading this - this doesn't include you)

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime

True - This was the easiest of the lot to answer... Environment is the most important aspect in character development... It's up to the parents to develop that character in a positive and loving environment.

BAM!!!
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Reply #7 July 30, 2004 6:26:31 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
True, it should be the womans right, just because I would never do it, does not mean I have the right to tell another woman what to do with her body. It is her body, and her decision. She will have to live with the consequences of that action herself, and there are many different circumstances, it is personal choice.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
False. War is necessary is some cases. That is just the harsh reality of it. the way we go about war could be changed, but sometimes the world does have to be that brutal. We do have to do such things and if we didn't I think the world would be in a worst state than it is now.


3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
False. Career criminals are that for a reason. They master their trade in prsion. Come across bigger and badder versions of themselves, who teach them more than what they went in with. Prison does work for some people, and scares them enough to never want to do it again. Some however sumply fit in with the system, and the shock factor does not phase them. They need to be taught in other ways. Found better opportunities when leavving prison, better educated, shown a better route.


4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
True. Marriage is personal choice, again. I don't agree with all these people who marry at a drop of a hat, or who are just to young. Having said that I wouldn't want to stop them. They have to learn themselves, and as I am a bit of a romantic, who am I to judge it won't work? Life is full of surprises, and love is stronger than anything, so of course they have the right to declare that.


5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
False. Again in some cases it is. I know alot of loving, caring parents whos children have gone down the wrong path. It is not the parents fault always. Because they are not the only people bringing their children up, they have their peers, society, school, all kinds of outside influnces, and some people are just bad. That's it full stop, they want to be like that. That doesn't mean they can't be changed, but it is just in their personality to be like that. Juveniles know right from wrong, lets hold them responsible for the actions for a change, if they are old enough to do the crime, they are old enough to do the time.

I enjoyed this Mig, brilliant as usual!
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Reply #8 July 30, 2004 6:32:53 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
This is a mine field - but at the end of the day, both parties are responsible for the child, so there should be equal responsibility...


At that point is it equal? If the woman feels that strongly about it, and I really believe this is a tough decision to reach in the first place for any woman. Should the man have a say in what she does with her body for the next nine months? Will it do her or the baby any good for that matter if she decides to go through with something she doesn't want to do? What when the baby arrives, and she still doesn't want it, is that fair to the baby? Every situation is different of course, men do have a right. They are equally responsible, but when it is the womans body, it is ultamately her decision.
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Reply #9 July 30, 2004 6:46:48 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Ah Sally.... you are correct... as usual... That's the great thing about JU, you always get to see things from other perspectives, and I am now a wiser lad for it!

It's a tough issue, thats why it will always be a controversial talking point!!!

BAM!!!
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Reply #10 July 30, 2004 7:25:55 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
When you have unprotected sex, this is the risk you take, if you dont want to carry a baby for 9 months, take the proper precautions. Having an abortion penalizes other lives for your own personal lack of responsibility.


I don't actually agree with abortion, I think it's wrong, but up until that baby is born, it will remain the womans decision, because right or wrong it is her body. Does anyone else have the right to tell her what she should do with her body? I don't think so.....
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Reply #11 July 30, 2004 11:09:22 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
Yes, until the fetus is post-viability, and then no.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
War is not the best answer to many of the world's ills, though it is the last resort when diplomacy has failed. The current problem is that diplomacy is rarely tried with the same vigor and sincerity as war is.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
Honestly, I don't have any idea what the best way to rehabilitate criminals is, but I would like them off the street while they are being rehabilitated.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
I agree--with Suz's exception duly noted.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
Poor parenting is responsibile for a breakdown in values, trust and respect. These are the things that lead to crime...so yes.
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Reply #12 July 30, 2004 12:25:30 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
False - While the mother is host for this newly created life, I don't think she should just be able to commit murder just because she's currently hosting this life.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
False - war is a horrible thing that should avoided at almost all costs, and you might say that it is "wrong", but it's sometime neccessary.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
False - I don't know what the best solution is though

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
True. While I personally the thought of gay sex/love confusing and disgusting, I don't feel like my marriage is any less valid if someone chooses to give their marital bond the same title as mine. More power to ya.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
True.

What when the baby arrives, and she still doesn't want it, is that fair to the baby?


It would at least be more fair than being murdered before even having a chance to run from their attacker...
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Reply #13 July 30, 2004 12:25:47 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion.
I'm much less certain of where I stand on this than I used to be. I was a pretty solid "women's right to choose" advocate for a long time. But to the "It's my body to handle as I see fit" argument, It's not JUST your body. It's somebody else's body too, which just happens to be inside yours. If you were a landlord and you knew 100% that evicting your tenant would kill them, would you still evict them? Even if you're an absentee landlord and have never met, seen, or even talked to your tenant?
I agree that at the least it should be a joint decision between both parents. Ideally it should be avoided if at all possible.

2/war.
False. There's a saying that "War is the last refuge of the incompetent". To which my reply is "Yes, because only the incompetent would wait that long to use force." Human nature being what it is, wars are inevitable. You're much better off picking when YOU are ready to fight rather than letting the other person decide when they're ready.

3/ prison.
False. As currently constituted, prison (in the US, at least) is not a vehicle for rehabilitation, but for punishment. The rehabilitation efforts are secondary at best. I would like to see that change, but I think mostly what criminals need to learn is impulse control and I don't know how to teach that. I disagree with Sally that prison is a place where criminals learn their craft from other criminals; they might share some ideas, but prison is where people who were stupid enough to get caught go, so there's not necessarily much to learn there, and not much to practice on, either.

4/ love/marry.
True with conditions. I support the separation of a legal union and marriage.
A legal union is provided (and recognized) by the government, and is available to all (with the age restriction caveat previously noted).
Marriage is performed by a religious institution, and is subject to whatever restrictions they see fit to place upon it.

5/ bad parenting/juvie crime
true. A strong home environment can overcome a weak outside environment.
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Reply #14 July 30, 2004 12:32:43 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Oh... and in regards to question 1:

I had a friend when I was stationed back in San Antonio named Jenny. Jenny was probably one of the nicest people I've ever known. Jenny was put up for adoption and lived with foster parents. I can't look past the fact that her mother could have exercised her right over her own body to completely destroy any chance Jenny would have had in life.

While it is true that kids who are put up for adoption have been dealt a pretty crappy hand to play with, at least they get the chance to play. People also say that they couldn't put their kids up for adoption, and that it "wouldn't be fair for the child to have to live in a poor situation with the mother", it's STILL more fair to at least give them a chance. No matter what the situation I was being born into, I would MUCH rather be given a fighting chance than to have somebody else "throw in the towel" for me before I even get a chance to fight.
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Reply #15 July 30, 2004 12:54:48 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right
FALSE She didn't "create" this life, so to speak, so why does she have the right to destroy it? It's not a permenant "condition" as someone said. Just because she's carrying this human life gives her no right to murder it.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances
FALSE Hmm, I wonder if anyone will say true to this. As most of the above people have stated war is necessary at times when two parties can't come to an agreement. There's a time for peace, but also a time for war. Can you imagine the US/Iraq affairs right now if Clinton were in office. Scares me to think about it.
3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals
FALSE. I don't think prison is a "solution" I think it's more of a "prevention" of further crimes.I really don't see how prison is helping people

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry
FALSE. gays should not have the right to marry... I also don't PERSONALLY agree with civil unions, but for the sake of law and order think that it's better than marriage.

5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime
TRUE. There's not a lot to explain, but I think that if parents were actually spending time with their children, showing them love, raising them right, and not getting divorced all the time children would be much better off and wouldn't get in so much trouble outside of the home anyway.

~Sarah
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Reply #16 July 30, 2004 1:25:03 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
Can you imagine the US/Iraq affairs right now if Clinton were in office. Scares me to think about it.


I'm really not sure what you mean by this Sarah. Clinton sent our troops to quite a few places, including Bosnia and Haiti. He also authorized additional troops for Somalia (a mission that began under George Bush). If you remember, Clinton also bombed Iraq. For some reason, people seem to think that Clinton stood on his hands and cried "woe is me" when faced with a challenge. This is clearly not the case. However, Clinton did use diplomacy to a far greater extent than this current administration (in my opinion)--Northern Ireland and the Middle East are two examples that stick out in my mind. Where would we be today if George Mitchell hadn't been removed from negotiating in Israel/Palestine? I guess we'll never know.
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Reply #17 July 30, 2004 1:26:55 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums

These keep getting better and better.  These are some key issues that you've hit on Mig.  I'll try my best to articulate my opinion.


1. Woman's right to abortion:  In my beliefs, every individual should have a right to choose what they want to do with their own life without the worry that some other individual who believes different will try to impose their beliefs on them.  With that said I think women should have the right to choose what they want to do.  It doesn't concern or affect me so who am I to tell them what to do?  God has given us free will it is up to us to decide what we do with it.  TRUE


2.War is always wrong regardless of the circumstances.  Of course that doesn't mean that it's never necessary.  World War II had to be fought but it didn't change the fact that many people where killed which makes it wrong.TRUE


3.If it's not working chances are it's not going to work.  These individuals have a tendency to return to crime because it's pathological urges that compell them to do it.  With some evaluation I'm sure we would be able to filter out some of those that can benefit from help.  FALSE


4.Unfortunately not all that fall in love can maintain a stable relationship but all those that want to get married should have the right to do so.TRUE


5. Poor parenting plays a huge role in the development of a child which will impact a childs behavior in the future.  Boys with no paternal influences have the hardest time adjusting and it may impact them in a drastically negative way.  TRUE

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Reply #18 July 30, 2004 1:34:07 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
In my beliefs, every individual should have a right to choose what they want to do with their own life without the worry that some other individual who believes different will try to impose their beliefs on them.


This is almost the perfect example for the OTHER side of the argument. If you say the above statement, but think of the unborn child as the "individual", and think of the "some other individual" as the mother who is carrying the child.
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Reply #19 July 30, 2004 1:35:22 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
1/ abortion should remain a womans' right

First off...I find it pretty intimidating to suggest I have any answers to these questions, but my two cents...sure you can have it....even though this isn't a pay day for me. Plain and simple, yes, it's a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, support the right to have an abortion, and their right to choose to speak out against abortion. That's what makes it a CHOICE. Expanding beyond the plain and simple explanation I also believe that aborting a fetus is "killing," but not a "murder." There is a very important difference between these. But I say this in order to get past the silly argument of whether something is "alive" or even what qualifies as personhood since these debates are highly theological and have little objective reasoning.

2/ war is wrong regardless of the circumstances

It would be very narrow minded to suggest that all wars were wrong. I would even argue that the Ghandi led resistance against the British was their way of waging war....the merits of such a war waged upon oppressive colonial dictators would be difficult to argue against. However, I would like to say that war is "wrong" in the moral sense if we are to judge humanity as a species. Once we break it down into A vs. B it gets a little bit more difficult to decide who is "holier than thou." I truly wonder where we'd be in this Iraq war if someone like Nader was president. Not necessarily saying that he'd do a better job, but I really wonder what might take place.

3/ prison is the best solution for the rehabilitation of career criminals

I'm pretty sure that the idea of serving prison time itself was never really meant to "rehabilitate" criminals, it was a "punishment." I find this question rather silly being a criminology/sociology major and knowing that there are infinite differences between offenders and also that very little has been shown to rehabilitate severe ciminal offenses. Prison is a way of confining behavior, not of correcting it. And now to get on my soapbox - drug laws are oppressive and a BIG WASTE OF MONEY! D.A.R.E. programs have been proven ineffective for 20 years yet they're still in place. The tougher we get on drugs the lighter we get on other crime because there is no space for more ciminals in the prison system...when one goes in, one must come out.

4/ any couple who are in love should have the right to marry

Yes, now let's move on people really. Call it something else if you must, but I remember a little thing that used to be called separation of church and state. You don't have to like it, feel free to hate, but GET OVER IT!


5/ poor parenting is responsible for the majority of juvenile crime

Uhhh....that would certainly be an incomplete explanation.
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Reply #20 July 30, 2004 3:46:10 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I just wanted to let you know that I will be commenting next week. I'm up to ,y elbows in a project at work right now.
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Reply #21 July 30, 2004 4:44:46 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
The line of viability gets blurrier by the day, shades, a friend of mine recently gave birth to a baby girl weighing 2lbs 6oz. She is having problems, of course, but shes expected to live. How would you determine its viability, by its ability to survive without medical intervention? Just curious....


Agreed, and I've not really got an answer. I believe the law in most states says 20 weeks is the age of viability. It sound arbitrary, but I don't have a medical background so I really can't expound upon it any further. If I were forced to define viability, I would say the ability to survive outside the womb with no extraordinary acts of medicine. (But this definition leaves me in some uncomfortable murky waters as well).
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Reply #22 July 30, 2004 6:40:12 PM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
hooray ! i LOVE this thing !. it's now 9.30am on a saturday morning, and i have just woken up to another amazing set of responses ... as soon as i read them all, i will be back ! (sounds ominous) !


mig XX
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Reply #23 July 31, 2004 3:16:43 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'M BREAKING THIS COMMENT UP INTO A FEW POSTS. SORRY !. it's too monster and i think it'll be hard to read


True. If you don't agree with it, that's fine with me, but if I were pregnant now the life that I could offer a child would not be fair on them or me. I think we're all allow to make a mistake. I do NOT agree with people who use abortions as a form of contraception (for want of a better word)


agreed, suz
To use and oldie but a goodies as an example - what if no one has fought Hitler? (Even though they were a little late as it was)


good point. and they were. they were ! hehe

I imagine that you could rehabilitate a small number of them, but that would require and entire shakeup of the prison system so that the inmates learn how to be honest rather than simply refining their skills as crims.


true, suz. i have often heard that "softer" criminals come out with a better "education" so to speak

True. True, true, true, true, true.


agreed

I don't jump on the blame the parents bandwagon, but I do think that they have somehow allowed these crimes to be committed


it's very hard to draw the line, suz. i know

Oooh - provoking migs. I don't really like many of my answers but i tried to be as honest as possible. Sadly I am such a grey area person but I tried to pick one side or the other. Even doing that I have a tonne of qualifiers!


that's the kind of comment i like to hear, suz !. they hurt my head to think them up, too.



False. I am going out on a limb here, but there certainly are situations where the bloke has been tricked into inpregnating a woman - i.e. Lying about the pill etc


i see your point, muggy, and it is a good one. i asked this question in such a general way that i actually did exclude the males' rights (naughty me !).

War is a necessary evil due to the negative aspects of human nature


sad, but true

I want to see it...


me too, mugz. it is a bit of an impossible question, but thanks for your input anyway

True - I dont care... marraige is an archaic tradition anyway


funny mugz, that was almost one of the statements that i used this week. i read a headline very similar to that. great minds and all that ...

True - This was the easiest of the lot to answer... Environment is the most important aspect in character development


very definitive answer there, muggy. i can't wait to keep reading and see who agrees



just because I would never do it, does not mean I have the right to tell another woman what to do with her body.


well said, sal.

False. War is necessary is some cases. That is just the harsh reality of it. the way we go about war could be changed, but sometimes the world does have to be that brutal


sal, that is the answer all have given so far, and for much the same reasons. already a pattern starts ...

Come across bigger and badder versions of themselves, who teach them more than what they went in with.


agreed

I don't agree with all these people who marry at a drop of a hat, or who are just to young


good points sal. these should be standard "conditions"

I know alot of loving, caring parents whos children have gone down the wrong path


again, sad but true, sal


ok, tea break hehe !. THANKYOU EVERYONE SO MUCH !


happy (feeling much better) mig XXX
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Reply #24 July 31, 2004 3:40:16 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
False, because pregnancy is a temporary condition. Other rights come into play once another life has been created, namely, those of the baby and the father.


sabrina, again i applaud your willingness to state your beliefs convincingly and without flinching. thankyou

And with adoption waiting lists approaching 5 or 6 years and costing thousands of dollars, seeing that the baby is raised by a loving family would not be difficult at all.


as a woman who'd love to adopt, this issue leaves me sorely divided, because i am still a woman after all

False, although mankind can rarely agree on the circumstances under which it is warranted.


i'd say this is the true summation of the issue, sabrina. thankyou for adding it.

False. One needs only to look at our recidivism rate to figure out it aint working. Do i have another solution? Nope


i don't think any of us have a better idea (or at least a feasible one). but we all seem agreed that prison can have more potential for harm than rehab

False, although i do feel that 2 legally consenting adults should be able to cohabitate and form legal contracts.


contracts in a way of a binding arrangement in lieu of marriage you mean, sabrina ?. i know that phychx and i briefy discussed such a thing a while ago, and i was i was hoping he might do a blog on the issue (hint, hint hehe)

True, since you said the "majority" of juvenile crime, not "all" juvenile crime


thankyou !. i hoped i didn't come across too heavy on that, but i just wrote it the way the news did and hoped for the best !



Yes, until the fetus is post-viability, and then no.


i agree with your adding of the fetus description here shades, i think it's very relevent. thanks for mentioning it.

War is not the best answer to many of the world's ills, though it is the last resort when diplomacy has failed


true, shades. i expected more contention on this issue (without necessarily wanting it), and i'm very surprised at the trend so far

Honestly, I don't have any idea what the best way to rehabilitate criminals is, but I would like them off the street while they are being rehabilitated.


big yes !

I agree--with Suz's exception duly noted.


as do i. (note that suz' exception - sounds like a legal clause now ! - being too young or marrying too easily or often, if anyone missed it)

Poor parenting is responsibile for a breakdown in values, trust and respect. These are the things that lead to crime...so yes.


another very valid point to add to this issue, shades. neglect (of any type) or setting a poor example can contribute to a warped value system in adolescents



False - While the mother is host for this newly created life, I don't think she should just be able to commit murder just because she's currently hosting this life.


splateaux, this issue has the friday five divided almost exactly into male and female. amazingly, this has never happened before. divisions have occured, of course, but they haven't taken a gender-based form until now.

False - war is a horrible thing that should avoided at almost all costs, and you might say that it is "wrong", but it's sometime neccessary


so far everyone is 100% agreed on this one

False - I don't know what the best solution is though


that's ok, splateaux, it seems all of us have racked our brains on this one and came up with the same blank

True. While I personally the thought of gay sex/love confusing and disgusting, I don't feel like my marriage is any less valid if someone chooses to give their marital bond the same title as mine. More power to ya.


great answer, splateaux. i wholly agree with the "if nobody gets hurt, go ahead" way of thinking

True.


again, the majority are with this one splateaux



ALMOST DONE NOW ! thankyou guys.


happy mig XX
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Reply #25 July 31, 2004 4:13:43 AM
from JoeUser ForumsJoeUser Forums
I'm much less certain of where I stand on this than I used to be. I was a pretty solid "women's right to choose" advocate for a long time. But to the "It's my body to handle as I see fit" argument, It's not JUST your body. It's somebody else's body too, which just happens to be inside yours


as i mentioned before, as a woman who would like to adopt, the abortion issue has less clear boundaries for me too

False. There's a saying that "War is the last refuge of the incompetent". To which my reply is "Yes, because only the incompetent would wait that long to use force." Human nature being what it is, wars are inevitable. You're much better off picking when YOU are ready to fight rather than letting the other person decide when they're ready.


again we agree, citahellion

False. As currently constituted, prison (in the US, at least) is not a vehicle for rehabilitation, but for punishment


now that i didn't know. but i guess i should have

True with conditions. I support the separation of a legal union and marriage.A legal union is provided (and recognized) by the government, and is available to all (with the age restriction caveat previously noted).


yes, we are calling it "the suz caveat"

true. A strong home environment can overcome a weak outside environment.


a great way of putting it, too, citahellion. i agree



FALSE She didn't "create" this life, so to speak, so why does she have the right to destroy it? It's not a permenant "condition" as someone said. Just because she's carrying this human life gives her no right to murder it.


sarah, again, i applaud you in being able to voice your opinion. this has been the most difficult question so far, yet the answers and the calm have impacted on me no end

FALSE Hmm, I wonder if anyone will say true to this. As most of the above people have stated war is necessary at times when two parties can't come to an agreement. There's a time for peace, but also a time for war.


so far sarah, we are 100% "false" on this one. we have accepted a necessary evil, it seems

FALSE. gays should not have the right to marry... I also don't PERSONALLY agree with civil unions, but for the sake of law and order think that it's better than marriage.


sarah, as is my way i utterly respect your views, and i understand the motivation behind them as well

if parents were actually spending time with their children, showing them love, raising them right, and not getting divorced all the time


this would certainly be a huge step in the right direction, sarah, i agree. we can hope



These keep getting better and better. These are some key issues that you've hit on Mig. I'll try my best to articulate my opinion


i can believe you ever have to TRY, carlos. ... but thanks !

In my beliefs, every individual should have a right to choose what they want to do with their own life without the worry that some other individual who believes different will try to impose their beliefs on them. With that said I think women should have the right to choose what they want to do.


as everyone keeps saying, this issue is getting more and more complex. i can even see the odd mind changing above. i do agree that women should have the right to choose. but i guess i wish they didn't have to

World War II had to be fought but it didn't change the fact that many people where killed which makes it wrong.TRUE


the first true answer, carlos. i was waiting for one !. the cost in human life does make war wrong on a moral level, yet as you say, it is unfortunately occasionally necessary

If it's not working chances are it's not going to work


love this !

These individuals have a tendency to return to crime because it's pathological urges that compell them to do it. With some evaluation I'm sure we would be able to filter out some of those that can benefit from help. FALSE


true, and a good suggestion as to a first small course of action to see who can be rehabilitated

Unfortunately not all that fall in love can maintain a stable relationship but all those that want to get married should have the right to do so.TRUE


great answer, carlos

Boys with no paternal influences have the hardest time adjusting and it may impact them in a drastically negative way. TRUE


proven true and a very good point, carlos. certain years are vital in terms of the development of the young male, and a lack of a positive paternal figure can have lasting negative consequences



First off...I find it pretty intimidating to suggest I have any answers to these questions, but my two cents...sure you can have it....even though this isn't a pay day for me


thanks, suspeckted

Plain and simple, yes, it's a woman's right to choose to have an abortion, support the right to have an abortion, and their right to choose to speak out against abortion. That's what makes it a CHOICE


good definition

However, I would like to say that war is "wrong" in the moral sense if we are to judge humanity as a species. Once we break it down into A vs. B it gets a little bit more difficult to decide who is "holier than thou.


a similar point was made by psychx, suspeckted, and "morally wrong" yet "neceessary" is the general consenus

I'm pretty sure that the idea of serving prison time itself was never really meant to "rehabilitate" criminals, it was a "punishment." I find this question rather silly being a criminology/sociology major and knowing that there are infinite differences between offenders and also that very little has been shown to rehabilitate severe ciminal offenses


(i'm sorry it's such a silly question, suspeckted hehe. i hope you read the introduction where i said these were statements i culled from the weekly media ?. anyway, thanks for answering it).

And now to get on my soapbox - drug laws are oppressive and a BIG WASTE OF MONEY! D.A.R.E. programs have been proven ineffective for 20 years yet they're still in place. The tougher we get on drugs the lighter we get on other crime because there is no space for more ciminals in the prison system...when one goes in, one must come out.


i have to say i agree on the issue of "soft" drugs. i'd sooner have a violent criminal behind bars than some harmless stoner

Yes, now let's move on people really. Call it something else if you must, but I remember a little thing that used to be called separation of church and state. You don't have to like it, feel free to hate, but GET OVER IT!


we're trying. we are !

Uhhh....that would certainly be an incomplete explanation.


as i said, these were just media snippets. it is phrased in a very general way, i agree




I just wanted to let you know that I will be commenting next week. I'm up to ,y elbows in a project at work right now.


hi kayles !. i'm sorry you're so busy at work. make sure you don't wear yourself out. we miss you in here !. come back in a few days if you can


getting tired fingers mig XX
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