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Barda278
Barda278
Join Date 12/2008
0

Vasari Mines are overpowered

January 2, 2009 3:05:23 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

           I just downloaded the beta today and started playing a small 2player map as the TEC agenst a Vasari Normal. I found everything pretty enjoyable the new defense tec tree was great. The space stations for the TEC were ok but I think the prices for some of the improvements needed some adjustment. I expanded gradually till I owned roughly half of the map. I did not attack the Vasari much for I mainly wanted to see the new defense stuff so I Bunkered down and waited for them to attack me.Finally they came but they just stayed in one place then most of them turn around and went back. But I found that in the 2 min they were there they somehow manage to lay a mine field over a half of the gravity well. I figured no biggy ill just find a way to disarm them. To my dismay I found out they could not be shot down. I figured ok ill move some spare frigates in to detonate some then repair then repeat. Well that did'nt go so well as I had hoped. Later they came back and started attacking my space station and much of my defensive structures from the safety of their minefield. My captial ships could do nothing but watch in terror as I lost the planet to the scourage.(alright it was and astroid).

Here are some of my ideas for fixing this problem

1.) A new ship that can disable mines within a certain raidis or an improvement to an existing ship.

2.) Have a reasonable limit on the amount of mines that can be put in a planet's gravity well.

3.) Take away the mines invulnerablity but make them invisable unless a scout is present.

4.) Have the mines able to damage the player who layed them except for the minelayers.

5.) Reduce the damage mines can do so you could take a ship with high hull points ram several mines then lay back and repair.

 

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Barda278
Cooley35
Join Date 06/2008
+4
Reply #1 January 11, 2009 8:56:24 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

REMOVE MINES FROM THE GAME.

They are EXTREMELY OVERPOWERED.

I played an AI on EASY. And lost my entire fleet of 5 capital ships to just a spam of around 20 mines when i wasnt looking.

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Barda278
madgelo
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #2 January 11, 2009 8:59:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

so, because you cant play mines are OP`?

 

 

ok

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Barda278
Silveressa
Join Date 08/2006
+7
Reply #3 January 11, 2009 9:00:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd have to second Cooley, either remove them entirely, weaken their damage down a ton, or at the very least give us the option of turning them off during game setup. (I know I've said it before in other threads but it;s worth reiterating)

 

Currently one of the first mods I plan to make for entrenchment is one that disables mines completely, unless they get fixed/balanced somehow.

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Barda278
Master Musashi
Join Date 07/2003
0
Reply #4 January 11, 2009 9:23:22 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you think Vasari mines are bad, wait until you see Advent mines.

 

To be fair though, Vasari mines are quite easy to sweep once you learn the trick to it.

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Barda278
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
+124
Reply #5 January 11, 2009 9:26:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Cooley35,
reply 1
REMOVE MINES FROM THE GAME.

They are EXTREMELY OVERPOWERED.

I played an AI on EASY. And lost my entire fleet of 5 capital ships to just a spam of around 20 mines when i wasnt looking.

That's pathetic.

Using a fleet composed entirely of 3 capitals (with no support), I was able to take out ~350 mines an AI still had in the well after I took the planet, just by running over them and letting the shields/hull regenerate.  Granted, it was incredibly time intensive, but it's ridiculously difficult to lose any amount of capitals to a mere 20 mines, almost regardless of how densely they're packed.

-

 

Regardless of how one feels about mines, it should be fairly obvious to anyone that a toggle option is simply not going to happen.  On the other side of this issue is the fact that if mines are not rebalanced (which Ironclad is working on at the moment, I do believe), no one will play Entrenchment.

 

I would however be in favor of mines causing somewhat less damage.

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Barda278
Silveressa
Join Date 08/2006
+7
Reply #6 January 11, 2009 9:44:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sole Soul,
reply 5

 it should be fairly obvious to anyone that a toggle option is simply not going to happen.  .

I don't really see why such an option wouldn't or couldn't be included given it should be a relatively simple matter of coding to disable the deployment ability, with a click. (similar to complexity in disabling pirates)

In games like this the more options players have to mess with when creating the game, themore replayability and long term appeal it has.

Perhaps another solution to mines is make them more powerful, but limit the amount that can be deployed in a single system to a  small number?

This way we have less/no slow down from mine spam, and far less tedium clearing them out?

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Barda278
Twadrules
Join Date 01/2009
0
Reply #7 January 11, 2009 10:23:10 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

imho, mines should be able to be shot down by anything with a gun. Not so hard to hit a immobile ball of steel when you can take down speedy fighters.

It waste some time to destroy all the mines, but time is important in this game...

a minesweeper ship would be a waste, little use outside of just that.. minesweeping. Not very fun.

Just make the mines a valid target for any ship would work i guess. Mines are and were always more about controlling the movements of the ennemy and wasting his time and ressources. They are not winning wars.

 

or make the mine vanish after a while, limited lifespan and LONG cooldown for the ability. so it a temporary measure that CAN be countered anyway.

 

just the 2 cents from a guy who dont have entrenchment.

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Barda278
Agent of Kharma
Join Date 02/2008
+31
Reply #8 January 11, 2009 10:33:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I really hope the devs are careful about what suggestions they listen to, and how they plan to implement those suggestions.  The last time a few people screamed bloody murder about something in a beta, the devs nerfed the phase jump inhibitor into oblivion, and ruined it, along with one of the reasons to play vasari.

This expansion is called ENTRENCHMENT folks.  Do you know what that means?  DIG IN!  Now, this doesn't mean I think the game is currently perfectly balanced in all respects - it is still in beta, and balancing is the purpose of a beta.  But it does mean you shouldn't reflexively scream bloody murder and demand that a unit be removed from the game just because you have trouble with some mines.  Heck, starbases get in your way too - why not get rid of them as well?  While we are at it, re-nerf the phase jump inhibitor back into oblivion.

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Barda278
Anubis208-RG
Join Date 09/2007
+7
Reply #9 January 11, 2009 10:42:23 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

How about this:

The minelayer ship gets a "minesweeping" upgrade. Couple that with invisible mines (uless a scout is present) and they would still be useful, but not OP.

 

*Note, I don't actually have Entrenchment. Yet.

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Barda278
Sole Soul
Join Date 12/2007
+124
Reply #10 January 11, 2009 11:03:22 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Anubis208-RG,
reply 9
How about this:

The minelayer ship gets a "minesweeping" upgrade. Couple that with invisible mines (uless a scout is present) and they would still be useful, but not OP.

 

*Note, I don't actually have Entrenchment. Yet.

TEC doesn't have a minelayer ship.

Advent mines are borne from squadrons...I don't see how that would work.

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Barda278
Silveressa
Join Date 08/2006
+7
Reply #11 January 11, 2009 11:06:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Agent of Kharma,
reply 8
Heck, starbases get in your way too - why not get rid of them as well?  While we are at it, re-nerf the phase jump inhibitor back into oblivion.

Mainly becuaswe starbases and phase jump inhibitors don;t slow my game down to a crawl/ cause desynch issues/make the game tedious.

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Barda278
StormReavan
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #12 January 11, 2009 11:09:14 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

have the anti-fighter/bomber frigates have the ability to shoot the mines.

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Barda278
Scott_the_Snow
Join Date 09/2008
+1
Reply #13 January 11, 2009 11:13:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Twadrules has a good idea.  Visible mines are still viable deterents.  You could even make them more powerful, and use them to wall off and channel movement toward your starbase.  This would be particularly effective if the ship AI steered around them automatically the same way it advoids other structures. You could combine mines and the jump inhibitor to corral ships that had just jumped in.  It would make static defenses more effective against AI and other players.

If they are going to require tedious micromangement I will look either for a toggle or a mod to disable them.  Its a game, not some hurdle to overcome as a personal test.  As they stand now they sound so tedious I havent had the temptation to buy the expansion.

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Barda278
Lnathan1966
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #14 January 12, 2009 5:37:15 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I approve Barda278 opinion and suggestions 

Now mines are overpowered and take great advantage to Vasari .

In game Vasari don't attack never ........ are in their grawity filed planet and wait my attack ....

An attack is impossible , the gravity field of your planet  is a great minefields with a star base wery powerfull and a lot of enemy frigate ........ my fleet with 6 capital ships , frigate and carrier was destroyed in 10 minute ....... star base was regenerate by enemy fleet and mine explosion destroy my fleet .......

I try to destroy mine but enemy fire is very high ................ and have no time for it ....

Very hard

 

By all

 

Nathan

 

 

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