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Psyco567
Psyco567
Join Date 09/2008
+1

Auxillary Government doesn't quite do what it says, or what it should.

A nessicary change for the final realease.

February 14, 2009 6:08:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hey all,

I thought I would start this thread beacuse of the responce the topic got as an off topic conversation I started in another thread, so now it has a proper place to take place.

Ok here is the rundown:

The auxilary government upgrade says it: "Prevents loss of controll of the planet due to planet bombing" I thought, "Great now even if they bomb the planet to 0hp, I won't loose it." Or, "now my planet health will not go below 1hp." Well it doesn't do what it implies   , in fact you can easilly loose controll of the planet if they bomb it, all it does is stop the enemy from coloniese your planet untill it is dead, but culture can easilly do that, and takes only 3 labs (depends on race) to research instead of 4 (again i'm using TEC dunno about the others) it's also way cheaper (it's not 1800 credits plus a starbase)

The very least they could do is to is to change the description so it makes more sence. I would say it needs to be so that the planet can be bombed to 1hp and the population to 0 so you have to re-grow your population from scratch, this would make it so there is still a benifit to bombing the planet (no income for the other player from that planet)but benificial enough that you wouldn't have to rebuild your infastructure, and that we aren't stuck with a useless upgrade. I would rather get another hanger upgrade for my SB so it doesn't come to the plannet being bombed or even a trade upgrade would be better for that matter. It really annoys me to have to rebuild a plannet when an upgrade tells me that my planet will stay under my controll after being bombed....and it doesn't .

Some people say it is bugged, and that it is supposed to be somewhat like I have described, but others I talked to say it has the same effect as culture, and from experiance, I know either way, it needs a fix. If it's a bug, great, change it for the release, but if it isn't change it for the release lol .

Anyways, have any of you had an experiance with this? Thoughts? Suggestions? We need to let the dev's know that as is, it is a primarilly useless upgrade.

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Psyco567
Agent of Kharma
Join Date 02/2008
+31
Reply #1 February 14, 2009 6:49:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I always assumed it prevented a loss of control of the planet.  If you say it merely prevents your enemy from colonizing it, well, that's better than nothing, but kinda sucks.  I agree, at the very least they should change the description to more accurately describe what's going on.

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Psyco567
Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
+24
Reply #2 February 15, 2009 1:33:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

as I said in the other thread: the ability could use some loving. denying enemy colonisation is just not worth the cost when compared with the alternatives. 1) the upgrade cost is quite substantial and 2) this is obviously something you'd want on a front line planet, or at least a planet that sees some action. with the limited slots, offensive, defensive and other upgrades are far more atttractive too, so I would see this upgrade having trouble competing with others for the the sparse slots.

I mean it would be useful, if - as was said - the planet remained in your control, say, with a pitiful amount of infrastructure left. all your pop would be gone, so no tax earnings, which would make planet bombing still not entirely pointless for an enemy, but the defender could happily concentrate all his defenses in a nice, tight cluster and not worry about losing the planet. after all, build all the upgrades again takes time and resources. and if you found an artifact there, all the better, you keep benefiting from it.

I mean wtf, maybe tec could even get a planetary shield generator upgrade instead of it. if the values are good, that would probably make it worth more than the current one, in some few cases even more than the above idea.

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Psyco567
the_only_normal_1
Join Date 02/2008
+1
Reply #3 February 15, 2009 2:48:13 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think at present this ability is too irrelevant, and regardless of tweaking will remain so in all but the most bizarre cases. The best fix that I can see would be to twofold: I) implement Psyco567's idea of it preventing a planet from dropping below 1hp; and II) make it cost perhaps twice as much to research, but make it a passive ability, like the jump destabilization ability -- this way all SB's get it and it is no longer a waste of an upgrade slot. Given that the idea of auxilliary government is more of an abstract one than building more strike-craft hangars (no real physical manifestation that is taking up the so-called upgrade 'space'), this may make more sense as well in that once empires have figured out how to transfer government authority in times of crisis to the nearby starbase they would know this not just in one gravity well, but across the empire...

Any objections to this idea?

Oh ya.. and one more thing. If the devs do decide to implement the 1hp thing, I would caution in advance that this may very well lead to a bug where starbases assume premature control of colonies that have yet to be colonized or perhaps are already colonized by hostile cultures -- this would obviously be unforunate.

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Psyco567
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #4 February 15, 2009 3:20:33 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think Shadowhal it the nail right on the head when he said that the alternatives are just too good compare to this ability. I like the idea of the normal 1, making this a passive ability is fine by me.

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Psyco567
Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
+24
Reply #5 February 15, 2009 3:21:27 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_only_normal_1,
reply 3
I think at present this ability is too irrelevant, and regardless of tweaking will remain so in all but the most bizarre cases. The best fix that I can see would be to twofold: I) implement Psyco567's idea of it preventing a planet from dropping below 1hp; and II) make it cost perhaps twice as much to research, but make it a passive ability, like the jump destabilization ability -- this way all SB's get it and it is no longer a waste of an upgrade slot. Given that the idea of auxilliary government is more of an abstract one than building more strike-craft hangars (no real physical manifestation that is taking up the so-called upgrade 'space'), this may make more sense as well in that once empires have figured out how to transfer government authority in times of crisis to the nearby starbase they would know this not just in one gravity well, but across the empire...

Any objections to this idea?

Oh ya.. and one more thing. If the devs do decide to implement the 1hp thing, I would caution in advance that this may very well lead to a bug where starbases assume premature control of colonies that have yet to be colonized or perhaps are already colonized by hostile cultures -- this would obviously be unforunate.

the ability as an upgrade, so that all sb's have them would be far too powerful imo, no matter the research cost. if you go down that path, I'd think about making it a forced choice between the phase lane disturbance or the 'indestructible colonies'. both provide the enemy with a strong incentive to attack the base, but for different reasons.

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Psyco567
DarkCloud
Join Date 02/2008
+8
Reply #6 February 15, 2009 7:43:25 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

If its fixed I could see some interesting uses in MP.

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Psyco567
jeremyshaw
Join Date 11/2008
+2
Reply #7 February 16, 2009 12:40:11 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

OR, make the planet have double hp, making taking out the SB a priority now.

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Psyco567
lich1989
Join Date 01/2009
+5
Reply #8 February 16, 2009 1:03:24 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Auxiliary Government would make the TEC Novalith Cannon a lot less useful if it prevents the loss of the planet through planet bombardment. It would seem unfair that they provide protection against the TEC superweapon and not that of the Vasari and the Advent.

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Psyco567
Shadowhal
Join Date 04/2007
+24
Reply #9 February 16, 2009 4:36:25 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting lich1989,
reply 8
Auxiliary Government would make the TEC Novalith Cannon a lot less useful if it prevents the loss of the planet through planet bombardment. It would seem unfair that they provide protection against the TEC superweapon and not that of the Vasari and the Advent.

good point.

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Psyco567
Dargoon999
Join Date 05/2008
+8
Reply #10 February 16, 2009 8:15:45 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have to say that I totally support what "the Normal 1" said about doubling the cost of the upgrade and making it a passive ability for all starbases once researched. In my opinion, this is the best option!

And here is another idea (but I have to say that I prefer the normal 1's idea):

How about going the other way around, what if the Auxiliary Government IS the passive ability of starbases and the phase disruption is an upgrade for the starbases. It would be an interesting choice for players: do I want to hurt my enemy if he tries to bypass my starbase or do I want that 3rd strikecraft upgrade.

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