Hmmm... I am an Advent player, and a probably low end one at that, i have enough trouble staying alive with pirate raids stacked at 10 minutes apart, so im not a statician or general on the field, however, If Vasari have inherent pluses in some areas, and they have to be countered in a specific way to beat them, and the Tec have low cost ships that swarm the grav well in waves, then isn't it a balance to have the Advent have superior shields?
If we increase the cooldown time, or lessen the restore rate to a maximum number, or clip the upgrade values then aren't we hamstringing the Advent in early and mid game? I mean if a fully maxed out Advent fleet is hard, or difficult, or even very difficult to take down in late game, what are the Vasari like? What are the Tec like? What are their strengths late game and are they as difficult to take down as the Advent?
I am no pro player, but for many late games for me as Advent against Tec i know that i get swarmed with wave after wave of ships, sometimes two or three times as many as i have on the field.
For me the Vasari are tough, but i try to build a sizable fleet, with as many caps as i can get in a short time and attack them in early or mid game, if i wait to long they overwhelm me with phase missiles and their ability to jump off planet when things get too hot using their phase stabilizers and i can't follow as they just jumped 2 or 3 planets, sometimes more away.
With the Tec i have to use the same tactic, attack hard early, but again, this only works if i do it really early, and sometimes even then im caught between them and the Vasari. Of course i could go 1v1, but i like to think im past that and 1v2 is where im learning my hard lessons, but still trying to learn, haha, instead of my just backing down to a lower level. But anyway, my analysis of this as an Advent "Supporter" may not count for those who have played much longer than i, and are way more experienced. I just hate to see my "precious" Advent getting clipped when i have to hang on with the skin of my teeth just to get past the hard ai against Tec and Vasari.
Just my opinion, thanks for listening,
Teal, I wasn't actually talking about Advent ships. Or their shields. That part you quoted was in regards to Guardians helping reduce the damage of Meteor Storm from the Transcendia, that's all Here's what you do, though. Build one (Transcendia), give it 3 armor upgrades, Mass Disorient, Meteor Storm, and either 2 weapon upgrades or 2 fighter upgrades. Build 3 hangars and 2-3 repair bays behind it, and then as many beam turrets as you have slots for on the sides and a few very slightly in front of the Transcendia. Fill your squad slots with fighters (after mines if you want to deploy mines). When the AI jumps in, select all your fighters and quickly pick off their siege ships and if it's a TEC/Advent, their Ogrovs and Adjudicators after the siege ships.
After that, your defenses will never, ever fall to a single AI attack. Your Transcendia's Meteor Storm will take out all their LRFs and Cobalts after 3-4 casts, and you'll barely lose any beam turrets and not even come close to losing the Transcendia.
It seems to me that each has a strength countered by one of the others, so no one is tops, but at the same time weakening any of them, including the Advent mitigation and shielding leads to an OP condition on the other side. If we do what you say, then how will i as Advent counter the sheer number of ships the Tec can throw at me, and if one ship on one takes xx time to kill, what of your 3 Tec ships or more, sitting on my one Advent ship? I will go down, and quickly for frigates and cruisers if i dont field enough shielding.
Again, though, I wasn't talking about their ships. Shield mitigation can be adjusted for each individual entity. I was only proposing reducing the mitigation on their beam turret and only their beam turret. Not the entire race.
And Annatar, i dont mean this meanly, but the situation you mention only occurs on Advent worlds. If i am in a Tec grav well, or a Vasari grav well, or even a Neutral grav well, then i dont have those repair bays, those hangers and beam defenses to guard my back or to give me an advantage. All i have are my ships, with just the normal mitigation and shielding and hull. Which still stacks lower against the Vasari. And even with it, doesnt stack well against the numbers the Tec can throw at me.
My personal opinion of downgrading Advent mitigation or restore rates or limiting upgrade values for the sake of only Advent world advantage is that it is asking too much.
How much advantage do Tec have on their own worlds with their defenses full up?
Or the Vasari with their defenses full up?
And as an Advent player, even if i were a pro player, would it take me too long to take the Tec down? Or the Vasari?
Exactly. It only happens on Advent worlds. Take this for example. You're playing any race, doesn't matter what. You have a TEC, a Vasari, and an Advent AI with the same defense layout. You have your fleet, ready to attack. It will take you ~3 times as long to destroy the Advent defenses than either the TEC or Vasari, or it will take you ~3 times as many ships to do it in the same amount of time. Just because their turrets have shield mitigation now.
Here's some fun math:
Let's take, for ease, an un-upgraded Gauss turret and un-upgraded Beam turret with Synergy.
They both have 3,000 hp, 12 armor. With Synergy, the Beam turret has 60% mitigation and 2.5 shield hp restored per second. Because they have the same armor they'll get the same effective hp bonus so I'll ignore that. They also have the same hull restore/sec so I'll ignore that as well.
Then let's take 20 TEC Javelis frigates, un-upgraded: 71.5 damage per shot with a 6.5 second cooldown = 11 DPS. They have ANTIMEDIUM attack, which does 50% damage against MODULE armor, so 5.5 DPS per ship.
20 ships x 5.5 DPS = 110 DPS against a TEC turret, and 3000/110 = ~27.3 seconds to destroy it.
20 ships x (5.5 DPS x 0.4) = 44 DPS against a Beam turret, and 3000/44 = ~68.2 seconds to destroy it.
That's about 2.5x longer to destroy a Beam turret with the same hp and 60% mitigation. In reality, Synergy adds shields and a hangar adds shields and shield regen, so you'll have the Beam turret with an extra 1,750 shield hp to burn through, and a 6.5/s recharge rate which becomes non-negligible.