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Is the Destra Crusader worth using?

By on June 8, 2009 11:35:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Swordsalmon

Join Date 03/2009
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I hope this can be answered alright.

Anyways, I've been using Advent a lot more than usual, but have rarely used Destra Crusaders. Really, I've been thinking that they're just too expensive and not strong enough to be worth using a lot, especially considering its Plasma upgrades. So is it worth upgrading and building Crusaders, or overall just better using the money to build Iluminators/Defense Vessels? Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, and I'm currently playing Vanilla 1.16.

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June 8, 2009 11:43:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmmm well I play advent quite a bit.  To be honest, compared to the cost of other HC's and their effectiveness, the Destra is quite cheap and pacts quite a punch conisidering it's shields.  However, it's kinda tough to get them earlier in the game.  You are better off just sticking to illums early on in the game, mixed with guardians, since they are on the same research tier.  Destras can become effective later on in the game.  If you are playing the AI, destras could be useful, however on MP, don't bother, just use illums.

 

dresda

 

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June 9, 2009 12:03:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah...  Personally, they are one of my favorite things to use against the AI, but against people, just use illums...

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June 9, 2009 1:42:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's a heavy cruiser, and it gets the job done well.  Its special ability isn't that great, and it doesn't share its damage upgrade with any other units, but if you can live with that there's nothing wrong with it.  Certainly late game when you have the time to sink some cash into its damage upgrade it becomes very good, and when fully upgraded it's easily the most dangerous heavy cruiser of them all!

One consideration to make is that against Vasari you should have at least +20% hull point researched, since otherwise nano-disassemblers can kill them on its own.  Easy way to lose quite a few valuable units.

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June 9, 2009 3:43:22 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Destras are just fine.  They have less hull and more shields and DPS, but are otherwise very similiar to Kodiaks in capability and cost.  They just don't get made much because most Advent players would rather make more Illuminators.

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June 24, 2009 3:25:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hells yes.

My basic sector fleet consists of two Radiances and approx 50 destras.

That is the answer to carrier spam or illum spam. When only one of those fleets can take out a novalith cannons or a kol in literally ten seconds, it is definitely beneficial to use destras.

In fact, once they get up into the hundreds, they are near unstoppable.

 

 

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June 24, 2009 4:34:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SSAF,
Hells yes.

My basic sector fleet consists of two Radiances and approx 50 destras.

That is the answer to carrier spam or illum spam. When only one of those fleets can take out a novalith cannons or a kol in literally ten seconds, it is definitely beneficial to use destras.

In fact, once they get up into the hundreds, they are near unstoppable.

 

 

That's basically...wrong. Yes, definitely wrong.

Ofc a hundred Destras kill everything that doesn't move away quickly. So do 150 Illums (probably faster due to sidebeams)

First off, Destras absolutely DONT work against carrier spam. They get ripped to shreds by any comparable amount of bombers (say 1-2 squad per Destra). LFs would work. They'd work against Illums though, if the opponent is careless and doesn't have repulsion ready. If he does...good bye 1k fleet supply.

 

Against advent HCs are pretty much useless unless you manage to counter repulsion. And if you're playing advent you rarely need them because with guardians+mothership you can keep your fleet alive even against upgraded Starbases. If your main fleet is busy they're a good choice against SBs though if the enemy got massive fighters in the well (i.e. no chance for bombing it) but no bombers (otherwise those HCs die).

 

Edit: I'm sorry, I don't mean to bash your post, I am sure those fleets of yours do the job against the AI, but you can basically pull off a win with any kind of ship against them if you're good. Mothership+Halycon would be way better choices for your caps as well. But just because brute force works doesn't mean that they are effective/worth using. 20Kosturas work as well (comparable cost to your hundres of HCs), but is that a good tactic? No..

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June 24, 2009 4:38:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

i'm pretty sure a hundred of anthing can kill anything else.  that's kinda a poor strategy.  if you want to get rid of SC, use lrms and flak

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June 24, 2009 5:53:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting dresda,
i'm pretty sure a hundred of anthing can kill anything else.  that's kinda a poor strategy.  if you want to get rid of SC, use lrms and flak

I hope you mean LFs? Because LRMs would be just as poor, especially vs. fighters

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June 24, 2009 9:11:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@ Azrak

I've never had a problem. I had a fleet of 125 Destras go up against three Halcyons, five Drone hosts and a couple dozen illums. They got hammered, about 25% casualties to the loss of all but one halcyon and a handful of illums. This was on multiplayer too, against one of my friends who's proficient with this game.

Some people carrier spam, some people scout spam. I prefer heavy frigate spam, with a side of bacon.

 

 

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June 24, 2009 9:36:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

125 Destras = 1250 Fleet Supply

___________

3 Halcyon    =   150 FS
5 Drone Host = 100 FS
30 Illuminator= 180 FS
Your Friend   =  430 Total Fleet Supply

 

 

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June 24, 2009 10:13:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Couple dozen meaning in the 50s and higher. I didn't count. I think it was around 60-70, but it might've been slightly lower. It was hugely laggy. I can't check on my recorded games, cause my graphics card asploded.

 

 

 

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June 24, 2009 11:03:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Couple dozen meaning in the 50s and higher. I didn't count. I think it was around 60-70, but it might've been slightly lower. It was hugely laggy. I can't check on my recorded games, cause my graphics card asploded.

 

It's ok, a lot of things asploded in this thread.

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June 24, 2009 11:12:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Even with that many illums the maths is on your side - your friend's fleet was 1/2 your size in slots...

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June 24, 2009 11:26:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well the plasma research is probably the best for DPS in the game, they are mainly not used because you can use Illums for mostly the same roles. Late game I usually have a few mixed in for good measure, but not more than that because their ability appearently doesn't stack... 

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June 25, 2009 1:29:24 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

your friend was a noob. 8 guardians with repulse would take out your fleet completely

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June 25, 2009 2:11:36 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That would be very interesting if it did now wouldn't it...  Just have a hundred fly in and just kill everything in sight with their presence...

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June 25, 2009 4:26:11 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JohnJames,
your friend was a noob. 8 guardians with repulse would take out your fleet completely

I second that. You say you had 125 Destras, i.e. as already mentioned 1250 supply. He had 3 caps, 5 hosts and let's say 60 illums. That' 610 supply, not even half your fleet. Plus he lacks repulsion, which I said earlier would leave your Destras at the edge as useless decoration. Obviously you had a better econ or he just didn't bother building more ships, idk, all I'm saying is that your fleet composition was awful. That doesn't mean you can't win against someone who's playing even worse. Just for the fun of it: grab that friend of yours and spend equal amounts on ships, you build Destras, he get's Dronehosts (with bombers). Or let your imba-r0xx0r-fleet of 125 Destras attack him while he has a dozen guardians, 1 mothership, 1 halycon and the rest illums. Always pay heed to spending the same amount of money. You'll see just how easy Destras are to beat. Hell, with guardians present and if he's good enough to keep repulsion up all the time a dozen illums could handle your fleet given some time (a lot of time).

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June 25, 2009 8:18:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Crusaders are awesome, but they only come about at tier 5, meaning in an online game you either need to be playing a LONG game where people are actually 6-8 jumps from each other to start so you'll have time to go straight to HC's, or you have to rush them and your econ is going to suffer heavily. We've all seen HC rushers online. The problem is we've seen people fail so hardcore using the strat, that no one does it anymore with how quick games are.

I guess it depends. If you haven't put investments in upgrading beams, you can make the switch. If you have though, it's hard to make the arguement to switch.

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June 25, 2009 11:03:40 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Meh. All my games I play are always large custom maps, with at least five stars and around 50 planets. I like the crusaders, because they're fast and mobile, and I can use them as fast response units.

That's just me.

Oh, and about my friend's fleet, that was a scouting fleet. Later that game (I was talking to my friend last night, and I mentioned that same game because of this post, and he reminded me of something else) I attacked one of his planets with only about 50 Crusaders. I usually send in an attack fleet until the defenses are gne, then send in my siege frigs. That planet had six hanger defenses surrounded by a couple of beam cannons, at least five or six. He had the fully upgraded hanger cap, and all his garrison were bombers. I escaped with thirteen Destras, because halfway into the battle a level 6 halycon jumped in.

I will concede the point that Destras alone will not make a good fighting force. Combine them wth a carrier and a Rapture, along with a few anti-strikecraft frigs, and they pack a punch.

But, lesson learned too late. That was the last game before my graphics card asploded, so no more sins for me for a while.

 

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June 25, 2009 3:38:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If it was me by the time I had 40 I would have a progen at least 4 guards and a halycon in the fleet.Also you need hosts for bomber coverage. By that time tho I would be upgrading my weapons for the destras.Fully uped with halycon they can reach 35 dps I believe.

40x35=1400 dps

100x19=1900 dps+cost of extra fleet supply

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July 13, 2011 7:00:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Cadalan:  OH, so the Destra is soooo powerful they blow up your card!    I better be careful using them.

 

Quote: "I will concede the point that Destras alone will not make a good fighting force. Combine them wth a carrier and a Rapture, along with a few anti-strikecraft frigs, and they pack a punch.

But, lesson learned too late. That was the last game before my graphics card asploded, so no more sins for me for a while." 

 

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July 13, 2011 10:13:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The last reply before yours was made over 2 years ago. I think the discussion is horribly obsolete. Check the post dates before you post 

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July 13, 2011 10:37:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, this discussion is so horribly old as to be moot.  Heavy cruisers have all received buffing since this thread was made, and the illuminator has been substantially weakened, so the relative standing of the destra within the Advent faction is now vastly elevated.  The introduction of faster speed means it's much easier to reach T5 than it once was, so the unit is more realistic earlier.  It's basically become the bread-and-butter of Advent fleets.

My earlier comment regarding the Jarrasul is also no longer an issue (though hull upgrades versus Vasari is still a very good idea).  The Jarrasul is unlikely to be able to hit level 5 while fleets remain small, so insta-kill nanos against bigger units is almost never seen anymore.  Your bigger threat is the Skirantra, whose wicked bomber forces will scale in power anyways as the Vasari researches phase missile upgrades.

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July 15, 2011 7:39:19 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wrath:  Thanks for the reminder.

 

Darvin3: OH! Thanks, that very helpful information for me. 

I have come to this game rather late.

 

---

Suzy

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July 16, 2011 6:02:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

Essentials: Crusaders + Guardians + Fighters (fighters will counter repulse and illums) + (Shield repair and malice)

 

1.Heavy cruisers are primarily designed to take a beating so as to stay alive long enough for repairing to take place. If you gonna spend a hell of amount of money why don't u purchase guardians as well to take away that 33% of damage done to your ships and a handful of drone host with fighters.

2. A fleet of illums is more than the equivalent of a fleet of 100 light frigates with malice turned on. why? well because the illuminators have side beams so in numbers while u focus fire there tearing your fleet apart firing at every ship they can get an angle on.

3. Solution: A mass of Crusaders needs Guardians and  mother ships in your case packing malice and shield regen, carriers, Halcyon with fighters and push. How u micro the abilities is up to u.  Cost is obviously meaningless to u since u can afford 125 units !  I only add 50, full armor, full shield upgrades with 18 guardians and 3 mother-ships, 2 halcyon , 5 carriers with fighters and i did ok vs a horde of a Javelis fleet.

Malice will take care of your focus firing problem and fighers will take care of u and his illums. Against many illums would i have survived? Dont know but i was bent on surving a beating so i probably wouldnt have lost miserably. (i think i would win  )

 

Honest truth.. doesn't matter how u see it. advent is lacking something in every fight in this game.

Fleet composition is the key and the guardian is the  key- the most powerful cruiser its class. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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