I wanted to add this to Deceiver's thread, but it's a little too big of a subject and won't be cured with a little stat fix. So I decided for another thread, cause I think it is deserved.
The subject is - Vasari weapons and their upgrade research trees.
They problem is - they're messed up.
Look up the research trees and check what ships profit from different weapon platform upgrades.
- Plasma weapons - improve caps, Destra, the Starfish and Starbases. Starts at tier2. Good upgrade.
- Laser - Fighters (pure damage boost, so it works well against both LRF and bombers), Disciples, Defense vessels and Starbases. Good Upgrade.
- Beams - Bombers, Illums. Awesome upgrade.
- Bombing damage - always good to save time on something so unproductive.
- Autocannon - Flak frig, Kodiak, Fighter. Starts at TIER1. Very Good upgrade.
- Lasers - Starbases, Cobalts, Caps. Ok upgrade.
- Beams - Caps, Starbases (their main killer). It is an ok upgrade when you have SBs around and it does not prerequire Laser upgrades done.
- High yield warheads - bombing damage. Always good not to waste another five minutes killing that planet.
- Rockets - Javelis, Marza, Bombers, Starbases. Must have upgrade.
As you can clearly see, all weapon platforms are worth upgrading. Some more, some a little less, but every kind weapon is carried by some ship that you can use as a major force in your fleet or as a bastion of defense.
In other words, weapons are more or less evenly spread around the ships, so that you have to decide upon one or two weapon types as you decide what fleet you are going to make. All upgrades are viable.
Now, the Vasari:
- Wave cannons - Upgrade Caps and Enforcers only (and siege frigs' anti ship weapon... don't make me laugh). It would be ok, but... wtf, tier 4? Up to tier 7?! Madness!! I know it's been said already, but it falls into this topic.
- Phase missiles - Ok... LRFs make this upgrade good. Bombers make this upgrade awesome. Upgrading Orkulus' main killer weapon is a bonus. Upping Vulkoras makes it a little more spicy. Together with upgrading fighters' effectiveness against LRFs and being the best upgrade of all (do the maths) makes it a hands down, win all, no brainer upgrade, regardless of what path to victory you choose.
- Pulse cannon - Skirmisher, Starbase, Scout and some other junk. Being T1 and T2 makes this a cheap and easy upgrade, useful if you have skirmishers in action (what?!) and any starbase, since it boosts the Orky's main attack cheaply and by quite a lot. An OK upgrade.
- Pulse Beam - Caps. Stop. What? Caps only? Who the f... makes T3 and T4 research that will increase his CAP SHIP damage (only a part of it!) by 5-20%? Are you making a Kortul Armadah of dhoom? Or maybe you are going for Go Big or Go Home achievement? Either way, in any normal game, this has to be the LAST upgrade in Military tree that I ever think of doing. Oh and it requires all Pulse cannon upgrades? WHAT? USELESS!
- Planet Bombing... range? By up to 40% with a 3-level research at TIER 6 that requires the whole Pulse Cannon and Beam upgrade line? Is someone nuts out there? It would be cool for Vulkoras to be able to bomb easily without getting into tactical structures early in the game, or maybe for those Tier1 Karrastras to harass more effectively, but not THAT far into military tree and not for such a small bonus (basic range is small. 140% basic is still small).
Conclusion - Vasari weapons are totally messed up.
1. The trees are messed up
- Planet bombing upgrade - it is too far, too useless and has too many prereqs.
- Pulse beam upgrades - have a handicapping prerequisite for no good reason (which, along with being T3/4 and no ships using them, makes this upgrade useless).
- Wave upgrades - are WAAYYYY too far up the tree and could use at least one more user than the HC.
2. The weapon loadout on ships is messed up
- Nothing uses Wave weapons except Enforcers (it's a marginal weapon on caps). If you're not VERY heavy on enforcers, you won't even THINK about this upgrade.
- Nothing uses Pulse beams . Only kortul and the EGG use it to some extent... but come on. Even TEC beams are at least a powerful weapon on Argonev. Pulse beams don't exist. It makes this upgrade totally useless.
- Phase missiles are OVERused. LRFs, ok. Bombers, OK. Starbases, fine. Fighters? Flaks? Turrets? ALL caps? Overkill.
Okay, so here is where you come in. As I wrote, I intended to post it in Deceiver's thread. However, the subject was too big in my opinion and didn't fit the "simple balance stat changes" idea.
So post up, just as you would in Deceiver's thread on stat changes.
edit. Please also state in your post if you think this issue needs attention.
For example in a 5 point scale, 0 being "no you fool" and 5 being "yes, I would SERIOUSLY like this corrected, cause now it's fouled up".
attention needed level 4 - I would like this fixed as soon as the other balance changes are handled
Planet bombing - <your idea, or yay for someone else's idea, or just say you think it's okay>
2. Weapon loadout
Wave cannon - <say you think it's fine or suggest some ship that should have waves instead of what it does now>
Please throw your two cents below on whether you think the Vasari weapons tree is messed up or not.
I think it is.
I want to balance the tree out. Or at least, figure out a way to do it, with your help. I will be updating this post like Deceiver does once there are a few ideas posted.
Maybe one of the Frasers takes a look at this thread and decide to use some of the suggestions.
I don't want a buff everywhere, mind you. I know you are all aware that I'm almost an exclusive Vasari player, but this seriously isn't about buffing them.
What else could a Vasari player want from his weapons tree than to have the best weapon in the game on all his ships? Surely, having Phase missiles on everything that shoots is a nice status quo. But let's face it, it's fouled up. Either eliminate Pulse beam and Wave cannons or spread out the weapons to other ships.
So, post up please. That's what forums are about, aren't they.