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Diplomacy addon why???

By on August 25, 2009 10:26:02 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Darksxx

Join Date 02/2008
+16

Brad,

 

While I do love Sins and it’s a great game, why are we being given an add-on to make alliances? This has got to be the stupidest add-on you all have decided to make and one of the dumbest directions the game has gone in.  If I wanted to make an alliance with the AI I would have done that from the start of the game when I created it.

 

 Let’s face it Sins is about conquering, and having an option to make an alliance is just not needed in this game. There is no Single Player game so why bother with this Add-on when you all should have been working on adding a new more powerful bad ass race to fight against.  I hate to sound ungrateful that you all are still making add-on and patching the game but I just don’t see the sense of this new add-on.  Unless you are adding new ships or ability for weapons this new add-on is a complete and utter waste of time. 

 

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August 25, 2009 7:39:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Let me make this as simple as I can, there IS NO Single player game OK?  what you think is SP is not its Skirmish plain and simple. there is nNO story there is no Plot its Skirmish.  Diplomacy in the MP realm for this game is pointless.  But hey lets all play it like you all want and make an alliance with each other and guess what? Game over theres no point in playing anymore  because now you have no one left to fight with.  Good luck with that lame ass game play.

 

Like I said IC would have been better off adding a whole new race that is totaly ass kicking and feared, but no we are leaft with a lame ass Diplomatic game so everyone can sit and make an alliance when theyre getting their asses kicked which is the chicken shit way of playing.

 

And as for your so called Karma, I could care less about that ass kissing crap, and thats all it is.

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August 25, 2009 7:53:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Darksxx,
Let me make this as simple as I can, there IS NO Single player game OK?  what you think is SP is not its Skirmish plain and simple. there is nNO story there is no Plot its Skirmish.  Diplomacy in the MP realm for this game is pointless.  But hey lets all play it like you all want and make an alliance with each other and guess what? Game over theres no point in playing anymore  because now you have no one left to fight with.  Good luck with that lame ass game play.

 

Like I said IC would have been better off adding a whole new race that is totaly ass kicking and feared, but no we are leaft with a lame ass Diplomatic game so everyone can sit and make an alliance when theyre getting their asses kicked which is the chicken shit way of playing.

 

And as for your so called Karma, I could care less about that ass kissing crap, and thats all it is.

oohhhh my bad

you have to have a campiagn to have a single player game

im sorry, it must be my IMAGINATION that allows me to play a skirmish game without a campaign or storyline written by someone else and be satisfied

and your right, diplomacy only will bring peace to us all on the multiplayer world, there will be no backstabbing, or underhanded secret treaties because we humans will always be a peace lovin people and when we have the option of peace we will never, ever go to war over something we want

you are entitled to your opinion sir

but remember

opinions are like assholes
We all got one and yours stinks!

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August 25, 2009 8:13:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,
and your right, diplomacy only will bring peace to us all on the multiplayer world, there will be no backstabbing, or underhanded secret treaties because we humans will always be a peace lovin people and when we have the option of peace we will never, ever go to war over something we want
Subtlety is not your strong point.

Edit: lmao @ the 'posts by' from this guy.

 

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August 25, 2009 8:43:39 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ryat good smack dude I love it.

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August 25, 2009 8:55:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, not having a campaign seriously kills a lot about sins. I'll give the guy that much.

That's about as far as I go though. Single player has always been dull to me because of how predictable the AI is. Sounds like this expansion will have some pretty significant changes. Still watching for the game change logs.

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August 25, 2009 9:20:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

wow, and i was going to say leave the poor OP alone, until he posted his most recent asinine statement. lets just all agree that he is an idiot and move on.

or not.

OP, you are the biggest idiot on these forums. if one person is playing, and he (or she) is playing alone, with only AI for company, then he is playing SINGLE  PLAYER. you know, alone=one=single. come on, you cannot possibly be that dense. shisno.

back to diplomacy. i kinda doubt we will see a campaign here (somthing i am really looking forward to in a possible sequel x cross your fingers! x) but the new stuff sounds really cool. being able to make treaties and give missions will add another, completely missing dimension to an already awesome game. cant wait

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August 25, 2009 9:23:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Poor troll.

There isn't going to be a campaign in Diplomacy, and there isn't going to be a new race, probably ever. Ironclad hasn't expressly stated that there will never be a third race, but they did say that one doesn't currently fall into their universe setting. The only possible candidate would be the mysterious race chasing the Vasari, but they're not going to add it in just like that.

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August 25, 2009 9:29:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Darksxx,
Let me make this as simple as I can, there IS NO Single player game OK?  what you think is SP is not its Skirmish plain and simple. there is nNO story there is no Plot its Skirmish.  Diplomacy in the MP realm for this game is pointless.  But hey lets all play it like you all want and make an alliance with each other and guess what? Game over theres no point in playing anymore  because now you have no one left to fight with.  Good luck with that lame ass game play.

 

Quoting Frogboy,
Most people (i.e. 99% of Sins players) are playing the game single player.

Moreover, in multiplayer, having the means to do things to get NPC (AI players) to help you is useful.

Darksxx, anything else you'd like to add, or should I end this with a mercifull casting of Melf's Acid Arrow?

 

 

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August 25, 2009 9:36:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Darksxx, karma is not 'ass-kissing'. Far from it. It is actually for people to let other people know how helpful they are.

In other words, people get karma for being HELPFUL. Not for having people kiss-up to them.

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August 25, 2009 10:04:49 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

ooh. the green writing just hurt my eyes!

 

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August 25, 2009 10:18:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Go Darksxx, bite 'em! Make 'em holler! By gosh, this forum has gotten so quiet you can hear the arteries harden!

The SP game of Sins has precedent, Civ 3 and Civ 4 are basically skirmish mode games. Both have done quite well!

Rise of Nations was basically a skirmish game. The Risk style conquer the world overlay merely tinkered with the skirmishes in various ways.

I do think Sins SP has always been missing some basics. The tutorial is really way too short for a player unfamiliar with games of this type. What was needed was another tutorial or two on how to build out. I think the most frequent question asked by new players who find themselves facing a blank screen is "what do I do now?" I see posts where the new player does not even realize that they get a free capital ship.

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August 25, 2009 10:30:52 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting kingspartan,
this is all cool, but i think they should try and make an expansion pack focusing on a new race, not another micro ep that adds just dimplomacy and such.

 

just adding my opinion, 

       kingspartan  

A new race would be really cool, but I don't think it'll come soon, if ever. Whatever the devs decide it to be, it'll seriously disapoint a lot of people (just cause everyone has different opinions of what the race should be). Althought I'd love to have a new race, I just use mods for now and let Sins be rebalanced. That's more important to me right now. Not that I'm playing a lot of sins recently but....ha there's my thoughts.

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August 25, 2009 10:31:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Darksxx,
Let me make this as simple as I can, there IS NO Single player game OK?  what you think is SP is not its Skirmish plain and simple. there is nNO story there is no Plot its Skirmish.  Diplomacy in the MP realm for this game is pointless.  But hey lets all play it like you all want and make an alliance with each other and guess what? Game over theres no point in playing anymore  because now you have no one left to fight with.  Good luck with that lame ass game play.

 

Like I said IC would have been better off adding a whole new race that is totaly ass kicking and feared, but no we are leaft with a lame ass Diplomatic game so everyone can sit and make an alliance when theyre getting their asses kicked which is the chicken shit way of playing.

 

And as for your so called Karma, I could care less about that ass kissing crap, and thats all it is.

Reading comprehension is a wonderful thing. The last time I checked, when you play by yourself against the AI it's SINGLE (note the emphasis) player.

I'm also pretty sure you missed the 4X part of the RT4X. Generally such games have something called an "Alliance Victory" I know, that's probably a novel concept concept for you, but I'm pretty sure you have the intelligence to figure out how that one works. (maybe. That post leaves some doubt)

And it's obvious Ironclad should add a new race "that is totally ass kicking and feared" because uber races are so much fun! Then, to make it even better, they can make so if you have them selected, you automatically win as soon as you start the game. That way you don't have to worry about people making "alliances" (who needs those? It's not like that's how real politics work or anything) and playing the "chicken shit way"

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August 26, 2009 12:02:33 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@Ryat: Booyah for you sir!

Quoting Kitkun,
Edit: lmao @ the 'posts by' from this guy.

i love the way he fights with Annatar: "Disagree all you want, you are still wrong, and my way is perfect" - Darksxx

lol, i havent heard arguments like that since what? the second grade? considering this guy supposedly has a 15-16 yr old child (as mentioned in one of his other posts), and therefore an 'adult', i am really surprised at the way he interacts with people.

anyway, on to my own thoughts.

Diplomacy isnt a bad idea. first, im sure there is more to it that just new ways to make alliances. for instance, on the Vanilla box, it said one way to 'win' (or at least cripple the enemy) was to undercut his economy by offering your resources at a lower price...

now, ive never been able to use that effectively... i dont think anyone does. but it makes sense, and if there was a more clear-cut way of using the economy to destroy an enemy, if would add another dimension to the game. TEC would have another weapon, just like Advent have culture and Vasari have phase manipulation (not perfect comparisons/similies, but close enough)

another thing is to make pirates more useful... for instance, having pirates breach enemy lines and take out a superweapon or two, or some mil labs or a fleet production planet or so, maybe even acting in concert with your own forces... maybe defending a planet of yours that is under attack, (or not, just holding the line while your fleet does other things), or aiding in combat against a larger fleet...

and then, there is always the most simple and blunt answer. if you have more control over your allies, you can co-ordinate better. as it is, you can never really co-ordinate massive battles with your allies either you or them go charging in and the other one follows... maybe... if you can organise to have two large fleets attack a heavily fortified and defended system, you have all the more chance of winning. atm, you cant even micro-manage an allies fleet within a grav well, because the AI responds with "we dont want to attack our allies" (although they as you to do it all the time)

all in all, im willing to see what Diplomacy brings. I do agree that the central core of Sins is to fight, but Sins is also RT4X... and without Diplomacy, it just remains a standard RTS. i do agree that without intelligent players (Human or AI), much of Diplomacy could be overlooked (for instance, making an ally believe you are allied with him against player 3, but then you and Player 3 turning on your previous ally and wiping him out, etc etc), but then things like tech trading and more... sophisticated or elegant trade routes would bring a dimension to Sins that i love to play with... even if there is no campaign i can make my own story about protecting my trade routes, or sending an envoy to a neutral/hostile empire...

and finally... Darksxx, you are an ass. seriously, you come, you critisise with no proof, backup or support, and then you lash out when everyone gives their opinion... you did it with your post about splitting the Empire Tree as well... you are acting like a child

honestly, considering you should be an adult, you should be ashamed of yourself.

just wait until the X-Pack comes out, you have no stake in how Ironclad is run nor their potential success/failure, and therefore no say in major things like what to do with an X-Pack, especially considering Diplomacy has been in the works for at least 8 months, if not more. AND, the way in which you have conducted yourself here, means you should have no say in how even the little things turn out. but... you know, free speech and all...

just wait till the damn thing comes out, you may even finding yourself liking it. if you dont, go play Command and Conquer.

Seriously, you should be ashamed of yourself

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August 26, 2009 12:38:42 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I just hope the AI is improved. Anything beyond that is a bonus.

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August 26, 2009 1:09:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

C.I. ur about the only sain person on this board. And as for the rest of you morons that cant read correctly I said theres no sense in Diplomacy in a MP game.  And people do play with AI in their games morons!  Again peanut gallery theres no SP campaign so you all can kiss my ass.

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August 26, 2009 1:18:21 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

BTW, this was a post from one of the nesws site today talking about the addon. this is what one user had to say about it. 

 

Personally, I wish that was a single player (or coop!) campaign for sins, with a full story and cutscenes etc.. like Starcraft. I love playing these kind of games with a premise or context.

I think it's smart of them to continue supporting an existing product with paid expansions. I just hope they'll whip out some lovely campaign addon after the diplomacy expansion (of which that campaign idea would benefit from).

In the meantime, I get my campaign kicks from GalCiv2 (Dread Lords).

On this "Diplomacy" expansion... I won't make much use of it at present, cause my mates play 3v3 vs the AI in teams... so Diplomacy won't do much there

 

Hmmm, totaly saying what I said...  Geee!!!

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August 26, 2009 1:27:44 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Darksxx,
Personally, I wish that was a single player (or coop!) campaign for sins, with a full story and cutscenes etc.. like Starcraft. I love playing these kind of games with a premise or context.

Hmmm, totaly saying what I said...  Geee!!!

um no you never said anything about a campaign, I did. And I actually agree with him, though I have no problem creating my own with my imagination.

Quoting Darksxx,
On this "Diplomacy" expansion... I won't make much use of it at present, cause my mates play 3v3 vs the AI in teams... so Diplomacy won't do much there

 

Hmmm, totaly saying what I said...  Geee!!!

Notice this person used the word "I" as in he himself would never use it. Others would.

I love people who think that their opinion is sooooo awesome that its has to be fact.

If you don't like it dont buy it.

And go find a

Im done here.

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August 26, 2009 3:18:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I said theres no sense in Diplomacy in a MP game

sure there is, just because you cant think of it means doesnt mean it doesnt exist... it could mean you have no imagination though...

um no you never said anything about a campaign, I did. And I actually agree with him, though I have no problem creating my own with my imagination.

seconded

BTW, this was a post from one of the nesws site today talking about the addon. this is what one user had to say about it.

Personally, I wish that was a single player (or coop!) campaign for sins, with a full story and cutscenes etc.. like Starcraft. I love playing these kind of games with a premise or context.

there are alot of people who want a campaign. i myself would like a campaign, but i dont think Sins is useless or any worse off for the lack of one. A campaign would make it fantastic, but even without its fantastic. Speaking about Morons who cant read, who here said a Campaign would be a bad thing? No-one. They simply said it wont be released until IC deems it ready/acceptable.

Notice this person used the word "I" as in he himself would never use it. Others would.

I love people who think that their opinion is sooooo awesome that its has to be fact.

seconded, again (and no, its not ass kissing, i just happen to agree with what he is saying, something you probably dont experience alot of the time)

and something you might like to learn from the guy you quoted: BE POLITE!!! you can say what you want and get a much better result without being an ass and insulting everybody... all that will get you is insulted back and a bad reputation

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August 26, 2009 4:09:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I said theres no sense in Diplomacy in a MP game

Especially in MP games diplomacy could add very much depth. Of course in team games with locked teams it might be useless but think of epic FFA games and what you could probably do with diplomacy:

- make a peace treaty with a stronger player nearby to assure he's not attacking you, thus you have one front less to defend

- gathering forces with an allied player to prepare a combined attack, than backstabbing that ally by quitting the treaty and crushing his fleet before he even notices whats going on

- sending an ultimatum to other players to end treaties with a third player

- demanding protection money from weaker allies

or what I loved in other (round based) X4 Space games (Master of Orion, Space Empires...)

- Espionage (spying tech, ship vision, planet vision)

- Sabotage (sabotage fleets, slow down enemy research, disrupt trade - AND put the blame on someone else)

...

 

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August 26, 2009 4:12:11 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Extremor,

I said theres no sense in Diplomacy in a MP game


Especially in MP games diplomacy could add very much depth. Of course in team games with locked teams it might be useless but think of epic FFA games and what you could probably do with diplomacy:

- make a peace treaty with a stronger player nearby to assure he's not attacking you, thus you have one front less to defend

- gathering forces with an allied player to prepare a combined attack, than backstabbing that ally by quitting the treaty and crushing his fleet before he even notices whats going on

- sending an ultimatum to other players to end treaties with a third player

- demanding protection money from weaker allies

or what I loved in other (round based) X4 Space games (Master of Orion, Space Empires...)

- Espionage (spying tech, ship vision, planet vision)

- Sabotage (sabotage fleets, slow down enemy research, disrupt trade - AND put the blame on someone else)

...

 

nice =D

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August 26, 2009 4:46:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

While OP´s behavior here is hardly what you call polite, i agree with him, that diplomacy might end up bit pointless even with the new features. Ironclad claims Sins is RT4X, but i think it is safe to say, it is mainly RTS. At least for me personally Sins is bit more complex version of Conquest Frontier Wars, which was definitely RTS. And as you surely know, one of the most important aspects of RTS games is balance. Playing with unlocked teams, which is essential, if you want to utilize diplomacy, can end up being unbalanced and unfair and i do not think that is something, what most RTS players are looking for. Therefore i think regardless of the new features diplomacy will continue being overlooked and most people will choose to play with locked teams.

However i would love if Ironclad implemented some kind of minor races with their own new ships and special technologies/ characteristics. These minor races would replace local militia in current game and players will be able not only to fight them, but they will have the possibility via diplomatic features to ally them. So actually playera will be able to gain new planets thru diplomacy instead of colonising. And finally these alliances could bring players new specific techs, they could somehow boost income rates, researching or culture, or they could provide supporting fleets in battle - all depending on minor race characteristics. IMHO that would be fun.

 

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August 26, 2009 4:57:47 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

We pretty much deffinately will never see a 4th race unless either Sins goes 64 bit only or the game limits that only 3 of the 4 races can be in a game at a time.

Neither is going to happen.

 

@Annatar11 they already added in a 3rd race  

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August 26, 2009 6:28:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I was imagining a campaign for Sins would go something like Supreme Commander; the threat chasing Vasari arrives, and forces the three other races to co-operate against the new enemy. The new enemy being the fourth playable race in MP and skirmish. Oh well, maybe in Sins 2..

Anyway, looking forward to the Diplomacy beta, i need to learn to play Sins again.

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August 26, 2009 7:36:07 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@Annatar11 they already added in a 3rd race

It was late. Shush

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