Welcome to our community JTKiller.

Sadly, the online player counts for this game have been slowly atrophying.  There are newer players out there, but I see them playing against the AI, mostly, in comp stomps.  I think that Pbhead's observation is right on--you're more likely to find newer players in smaller games and not on random maps, perhaps in games with normal speed settings.  You might also find more newer people in regular Sins.

The best way to get into a game is to join between, say, 4 pm and 11 pm U.S. EST and host a game yourself.  You could also add "newbies" to the game title which might help attract some newer players.

Aside from the issue of smurfing, the thing that can make it hard to get into those attractive 5v5 games is that the players want to play with balanced teams, skill-wise, and preferably with their friends, in order to have a more interesting game.  In fact, we even have two team captains draft-pick the other 8 players in the hopes of getting even teams.  ((We call them pugs--(P)ick(U)p (G)ames matches.) It's like a clique or an athletic club where you need a membership card.

There are three reasons why you might get booted from those games.  As Pbhead mentioned, there is a concern about smurfing where an experienced and skilled player will create a brand new player name, which could mess up the player draft and the team balance.  (A guy who should be a top 3 pick shouldn't end up as the 8th pick, giving his team a windfall.)  The other thing you're liable to see is that 16 players want to join a game that can only accomodate 10 players, so the host is liable to boot out people he doesn't know so that his friends can join.

Finally, there is the concern about team balance and player skill.  Although you are probably great against the AI and perhaps very knowledgeable about the game, the online multiplayer team game against human opponents is just a totally different animal.  Humans will do things the AI would never do and they'll make much, much better strategic decisions.  So, these very experienced, skilled players will probably be 10 times tougher than the AI.  You will get thumped and perhaps even steamrolled your first couple of times out, which might essentially turn a 5v5 into a 4v5.  (Even experienced, good players can get badly thumped and even steamrolled from time-to-time.)

However, I do think that you can get into the 5v5's if you tell them that you are new and that you want to learn and play in the pugs regularly and become part of the pug community.  (We do, in fact, need more players.)  Your best bet for getting into one is to join one where they're waiting for that 9th or 10th player.  Don't despair too much about your skill gap.  if you're determined to improve and to become competitive, you can watch the game replays and pay attention to the good players and try to learn from your mistakes and from what the other players do.  It'll be easier if you have online multiplayer experience with other RTS games and it might not take you long to get up to speed.

The other thing the people want is for you to understand that it is a TEAM game, which makes it very different from the single player games and comp stomp games.  So, you personally may be losing, but if other players on your team are winning their battles, then you can win if your team wins.  So, instead of just calling it gg and quitting when you're getting beaten, we want you to hang in there and to do everything you can to either get yourself back into the game so that you have a prescence and threat that cannot be ignored or to delay your assailant as much as possible to buy time for your teamates to take care of business on their end.  Sometimes you just get a bad starting position on these random maps (such as being sandwiched between 3 opponents on one side and 2 opoonents on the other) and then you need to try and hang in there and figure out a way to maintain a game presence as opposed to just quitting.  Also, instead of losing your ships and fleet for nothing, run away and migrate to the middle of the map.  You won't be helping your team if your ships go down without even taking out a couple enemy frigates.

So, anyway, just keep trying and see if you can get a couple non-pug games under your belt which will make it easier to get into the 5v5 games.  I'm sure that you'll be able to get established and to get some games under your belt if you're determined.  Sadly, Sins is just an older game now with lower player counts.  I doubt it's the first game which has had this problem; there's also talk in the Unreal Tournament (FPS) community about how it's hard for people who are new to the franchise to start out online since they will get fragged very quickly and lose interest.

I think it sucks that the "skilled" players aren't willing to take a loss every once in a while.  Okay, so you have a newbie on your team and you lose the game.  Does that mean it wasn't fun at all for you to play?  Get over yourselves and allow the newer players a chance to play with you.  Sorry if this sounds like an angry rage post, but I'm really tired of seeing posts like this where the newbies are pretty much being turned off from the online multiplayer community because of the more experienced players not willing to bring them into the fold.  So they're new, give them a break and let them play.

And even if they are a smurf, so what?  While they might tip the balance of teams, it's not guaranteed to completely ruin the game.  The only way that would be possible is if they lagged everyone out or something of that sort.  You're all still playing the game, which is what really confuses me.  I see two types of threads here all the time.  One is about new players wanting to get into games but getting kicked because they're new.  Another is how the community is so small and there are no games.

I'm wanting to get into online play (waiting to see what Diplomacy does, but probably still will anyway).  I've played one game online and it was fun.  I was killed easily of course but oh well...  This type of stuff is what makes me not even want to log on though.  JT has a point about people coming into the lobby and trying to find people to fill up slots.  I saw it a lot when I was in the lobby and I didn't even try to join the games because I'd probably get kicked for being new.  It's a deadly cycle...

Sorry if I went off topic and such I was just typing this all as it came out of my head. lol

I think people need to stop being whiney babies and just play a game to play.  That's the whole reason for having a game isn't it?  Or maybe I'm just the odd man out. I could care less about winning games it is all about playing for me, and if more people were like that maybe the MP wouldnt be so dead

Perhaps players' demeanor accounts for lower player counts on the order of, say, a difference of 150 people, which is a very significant number at this point, but I don't think it has any bearing on the overriding problem of so few people playing the game online.  As I said in the previous post, even shortly after the game was released the player counts rarely exceeded 250 people.  Thus, players' attitudes had no effect on the game's not having an online multiplayer player base of 7000 people simply because the 99% of all Sins purchasers never even came online at all and thus never got to see any attitudes, good or bad, in the first place.

Yeah i would be happy to play with a newbie it makes it a much more interesting match when u are helping them learn plus its good practice going over sins with someone. The matches i remember the most where the ones with newbies in them rather than just the boaring ones where everyone tires the same old rush stratagies on each other and drag on till someone makes a mistake.

you should try 3v5 or 4v5 games till u get ur bearings. The skilled players will let you play on the 5 side.

Its easy to lose 100 games and use that account to smurf someone.  The smurfs with low records are the worst because they are just so lazy.

What is your online name so peopel dont confuse u with a smurf then.

I was wondering about this. I have played SP only so far, or LAN with my roommate/friends. WE tend to comp stomp and thusly my strategy is getting stagnant, and a little old. I try your guys stuff out sometimes, but in that situation... it doesnt really matter, you screw up and youve still won.

Ive logged on to ICO a few times to see a grand total of 3 people. I then logged off.

Admittedly this would be my first rts game that I am actually play online (i only recetnly developed an attention span after 27 years of video games and flashing lights) and playing counter strike is infinitely easier to find a game without having to talk to anyone.

but yeah, my roommate got transferred and my gf is in grad school, so on weekends i dont have a whole lot to do. it would be nice to get on.

as for not joining the online community, i havent needed to yet, and i hadnt even heard of this game until i was wandering around the web bored at work a few months ago.

That's why I prefered smaller games with people I knew, and no, for a competitive player it's not the losing that isn't fun my friend - it's the never having a chance. Sins is a game where it's very difficult to carry a team on anything but the largest of maps, which I hate because someone invariably D/Cs/leaves/afks before it'll end, and the AI is atrociously bad at best.

I rarely lost because I was good, not because I liked stacked teams - I loved challenges. Back when GEC still existed I often did lop-sided matchups with my team being either outnumbered or putting more good players on the enemy team (In house, so everyone at least knew what they were doing) the problem is when you get some totally new player that is as much a liability as a  help. My clan mates would at least be on ventrilo so I could tell them what to do, where to go, what to build etc. But a new player has a good chance of being totally indignant and throwing the game on purpose from what I've found if I try and explain to them how to win, which frustrated me to no end, leading me to playing 2v2 or 1v1, occasionally uneven teams if I was with one of my better friends against pugs. I recall some crazy 2v4/3v5s against puggers that were pretty intense until people started leaving but I digress..

Seriously, good competitors don't mind losing, we always want a challenge - but there is no challenge in a game you cannot win and get steamrolled because your allies can't hold their own. I don't care about the mark on my record, I care about having fun. Competing is fun for me, win or lose. Getting steamrolled is not.

The game never did take off for MP, partially due to it being a primarily single player type of game (Most of the people I know that play it, regularly save for playing insanely long games, which isn't practical for MP outside of a very organized clan-like community) and partially - imo - to them balancing the game for single player, yet changing MP too early on. I recall the early patches, like when siege ships were nerfed in MP and SP because the AI spammed them in SP, which made planet killing neigh impossible, etc. Those things were what made me quit, on top of the small community. Much of GEC felt the same.

sorry but Im tired of hearing the age old excuse of Smurfs.......Its that newcomers arent openly welcome as much as smurfs. Im willing to bet alot of online players could careless if the player is smurf or newbie both are "just going to pull you down" and RUIN your experience. Get over it, people need to realize a BIG part of why the MP is not growing is because continuiously newcomers to MP not necassarily newcomers to the game, are shunned because they have no stats. Albiet Id get tired of Smurfs if I were in your shoes...but Im willing to bet theres a way to organize the game so the "possible" smurfs arent effecting the outcome. How about instead of kicking them for lack of stacks put 1 no stat player on one team and put another on the other. That way when the real smurf reveals himself you can either decide to let him get jumped by the other team entirely or just remember to keep an eye out for him next time.

Glad to see that there are still people annoyed by smurfs. Maybe that way they'll 'fix' this issue one day, and that will be the day I return to the online community.

I have to agree. I mean, comp-stomps aren't exactly very fun, but I'll play them with new players so they get a better grip on online play. I was actually playing a 2v2 with a new player a couple weeks ago, and he did say how the faster pace changes things a lot.

But yeah, some people learn online play better by jumping into large games. Whatever increases the memberbase is fine with me.