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Brothers In Arms = Brothers With No Class

By on November 26, 2009 1:40:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Agent of Kh...

Join Date 02/2008
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I've played multiplayer with this game since the very first day it launched.  Yet it still never ceases to amaze me just how many dicks and assholes multiplayer with this game attracts.

Today I was on ICO.  It often takes hours to get into a game.  I had been patiently waiting a long time, just as many others had.  Finally, a 10 player game filled up, hosted by Pawelo.  Teams were being picked, when all of a sudden 2 Brothers In Arms guys who hadn't waited at all pop into the game chatroom and say "boot noobs so we can join!"  Their names were:

[_]-Knewgui
[_]-Howler

The host promptly went down the line and booted "noobs" (basically people with unrecognized names or who hadn't played many games online) so that these clanners could join.  The clanners laughed and made several references to booting the "noobs."

And people still wonder why the no one wants to play multiplayer?  And people still wonder why multiplayer failed?

Is this how you clans want to represent yourselves?

To the leader of Brothers In Arms, do you care how your clan is represented?  Do you care how your clan "brethren" conduct themselves and treat other people?  Do you think this treatment of others by your clanmates (and this guy Pawelo, who, granted, isn't in your clan) was fair?  Is this how you would want to be treated?

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November 26, 2009 9:11:22 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

i have to agree, it would seem no matter what (despite dirty sanchez' efforts) there are always losers in online multiplayer. i mean, they are dicks in real life, why not on the web?

the only thing i can think of is IC should implement a system where if you want to boot someone you need a consensus of 1/3 or 1/2 or the people in the lobby to boot. its not fool-proof, but if half the people there dont want to play with you enough to boot you, its a good bet its not going to be fun to play with/against them...

hey, next time you have a 'noobs only' or non-clan game, just kick out all the clanspeople and see how they like it =P

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November 26, 2009 10:21:57 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The good folks are out there. Unfortunately it's the annoying folk who leave the longest lasting impression.

Can't speak for Knewgui, but if it makes you feel better, here's a replay of Howler losing.

http://www.filefront.com/14725857/AutoRecord-10141323.record/

I will hold out one last string of hope that it was someone impersonating howler, but you're right. I don't kick newbs for vets. If you've been waiting, you get to play. It's that simple. Only way you get a spot is if someone gives up one voluntarily.

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November 26, 2009 10:33:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I agree with Amish; you don't kick people who have been waiting.  If I have a problem with your record, I'm going to talk to you about it when you join, not when you've been waiting for 15-20 minutes.

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November 27, 2009 12:19:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

Those guys weren't Brothers, they were...mother's.

(It's a quote from one of the Cannonball Run movies I think.)

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November 27, 2009 8:56:18 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't kick newbs for vets. If you've been waiting, you get to play. It's that simple.

I've never played with you Amish, but I'm pretty sure that after I do, I will add you to my extremely short list of "class act clanners."  From what I've read and heard, perhaps Sanchez will be added in the future too.  I don't think Darvin3 is in a clan, but I'd like to play with him - he seems like a class act as well.

Can't speak for Knewgui, but if it makes you feel better, here's a replay of Howler losing.

Thanks for this.  I will enjoy watching.

I will hold out one last string of hope that it was someone impersonating howler

I don't think it was, because I was extremely careful about scrutinizing and copying his name character by character, and him and knewgui were acting as if they knew each other.  But I understand your wanting to extend the benefit of the doubt as much as possible.

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November 28, 2009 8:34:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am the leader of Brothers in Arms.  Are you upset at you or someone else being called a noob or the fact that others were kicked so that they could play?  Not being there I couldn't speak as to what was said that got you so miffed.  Kicking unknowns so that knowns may play is a fairly common thing.  I do so myself depending on the situation.  I try not to kick someone if they have been waiting a long time.  Smurfing is too prolific and I would rather have someone that I know rather than someone that is trying to stack the teams.  It sounds like you should be griping at pawelo instead since he was the host who kicked others.  I am not excusing someone berating others at all.  If I am going to kick someone for another player then I usually say I am sorry before I do it.  If you have a chat log or a replay of their behavior then I will look it over and see if any action needs to be taken.

 

[_]-Greyfox

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November 28, 2009 8:40:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well my rule is unless the title says skilled i dont kick at all.

that way everyone gets to play. Im tired of the community shrinking because people kick noobs after the 20 minute pug process is finished, it is just stupid. How can they get better if they cant play with pros? there needs to be some sort of vote for kicking, or something because it gets out of hand when a host just starts kicking random newbs because skilled people show up.

I usually find that the best games are with noobs anyways, true challenge comes from when it is a 4v5 due to a noob quitting early. 5v5s are boring if teams are completely balanced.

_|~Uber

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November 28, 2009 8:52:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Smurfing is bad, however i do enjoy being a dark horse now and then.  I think the real problem is the hosts for being to picky. If games are so hard to get started then they shouldnt care whos playing.  A easy way to fix team staking is to have a random team option like DoW.

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November 28, 2009 9:04:57 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Greyfox2,
I am the leader of Brothers in Arms.  Are you upset at you or someone else being called a noob or the fact that others were kicked so that they could play?  Not being there I couldn't speak as to what was said that got you so miffed.  Kicking unknowns so that knowns may play is a fairly common thing.  I do so myself depending on the situation.  I try not to kick someone if they have been waiting a long time.  Smurfing is too prolific and I would rather have someone that I know rather than someone that is trying to stack the teams.  It sounds like you should be griping at pawelo instead since he was the host who kicked others.  I am not excusing someone berating others at all.  If I am going to kick someone for another player then I usually say I am sorry before I do it.  If you have a chat log or a replay of their behavior then I will look it over and see if any action needs to be taken.

 

[_]-Greyfox

this just kinda annoyed me, i must say.

cause saying sorry makes everything peachy.

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November 28, 2009 9:43:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm not the leader of brothers in arms I'm just your regular HEY I'M HERE AGAIN brother in arms. But I always say don't kick for me and I will often leave if someone else wants to join and some noob would get kicked if I would'nt leave. 

I am aware of these things happening and I am aware of the fact that this hurts the community hence I try to avoid it.
BUT for these things to cease smurfing must stop. Cause as Grey says I would rather play with a known than a 90percent chance smurf trying to stack teams. It's easy to point us out here. I admid some of our members aren't verry diplomatic but you should also look at the underlying reasons for kicking unknowns for knowns.


Grtz,
[_]-Flipkik 

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November 29, 2009 6:57:24 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

They weren't booted because they were smurfs.  Nobody was worried they were smurfs.  They were booted because the two "popular guys" or whatever showed up, and wanted to play.  That's why they were booted.

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November 29, 2009 11:46:45 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Saying sorry doesn't make everything peachy but it is the closest thing to polite you are going to get when getting kicked for someone else.  You may not like that it happens but it does happen.  It is nothing against those getting kicked unless they act like an ass otherwise.  Those kicked could always host their own game as they like and kick whomever they like.  They are the host and they can host in whatever manner they wish and the people joining can choose to join or play another game that is more to their tastes.  It doesn't prevent you from playing.  It just prevents you from playing THAT game.  Like I said if someone is waiting a while I generally don't kick them myself, be they smurf or not. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

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November 29, 2009 12:16:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

They are the host and they can host in whatever manner they wish

Sure they can.  It is someone's right to be an asshole, if that's what they want to be.  Nobody here is trying to take away anyone's right to be an asshole.

People can largely do whatever they wish in life as long as they don't hurt or kill someone else.  It doesn't make it right though.  And the rest of us can certainly exercise our own rights and speak up and say we aren't cool with any of it.

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November 29, 2009 2:38:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just because they kick someone for another they would rather play with doesn't make them an asshole.  I would rather play a game that is balanced and with people I am more comfortable with/friends with than have an unknown(smurf or noob).  This is a game and I will play it with whoever I like.  If I am the host and I want to kick someone for another then I will and while I would like to avoid offending someone because of this but if I do I won't lose any sleep over it.  It is your choice whether you want to join a game or host one so stop griping about it and host your own if you don't want to run the risk of being kicked or kicking anyone for someone else. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

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December 1, 2009 1:43:26 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If I want to get into an online MP game I don't have the luxury of just hosting my own game and waiting a minute or less for it to fill up.  If I want to play MP I have to jump into the game that everyone is trying to get filled up, in hopes that it will actually fill up sometime in the next hour.  Reality trumps theorycraft every time.

Look, boot people if you want just so you can play with your buddies or whatever.  I'll just add your name to the list of people I don't care to play with.  It's a win-win that way, because I'm guessing you don't want to play with me either.

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December 1, 2009 6:21:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So, if i understand your logic greyfox2, it is about :

i host a game without password so everyone can join so that i can play and have fun but if i am lucky enough to get more people than expected, i choose them and kick the others, even if they waited a long time because, i, the host, would have more fun in this case.

Finally, everything is around YOUR fun. it is your right but, personally, i find it pretty selfish : you kick the same less skilled players that allows you to play when there is not anybody else. Don't you think they deserve better ?

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December 1, 2009 6:23:20 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

it seems to me that if you want to stop crap like this happening then in your game title you make it clan only or explain when people join that they will be kicked if someone else comes online, dont leave people hanging for 20mins then kick them.

personally it is no wonder people don't want to play online with this game. there seems to be too many people ether smurfing cause they can (that should have been stopped at the start by Ironclad tracking your name, how many games you played, won lost and dropped out of) or people wanting to play with the preferred list only. where is the idea of play everyone, encourage people.

Basically this game has now gone the way of a lot of other online games and consequently will never grow and will be stuck with a small if vocal minorityof epople who claim they are wanting it to improve but resist all attempts for this to happen cause thye dont have time for newbs.

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December 1, 2009 7:28:12 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

it seems to me that if you want to stop crap like this happening then in your game title you make it clan only or explain when people join that they will be kicked if someone else comes online, dont leave people hanging for 20mins then kick them.

personally it is no wonder people don't want to play online with this game. there seems to be too many people ether smurfing cause they can (that should have been stopped at the start by Ironclad tracking your name, how many games you played, won lost and dropped out of) or people wanting to play with the preferred list only. where is the idea of play everyone, encourage people.

Basically this game has now gone the way of a lot of other online games and consequently will never grow and will be stuck with a small if vocal minorityof epople who claim they are wanting it to improve but resist all attempts for this to happen cause thye dont have time for newbs.

thank you horndrat. way to get to the point.

Hes right, but now its probably already too late for ICO to grow.

i did an experiment, i made a profile that looked newby, 4 games 1 win. and i joined games just to see if i would get kicked. i got kicked from probably 50% of them. Now that is pretty bad.

_|~Uber

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December 1, 2009 11:07:01 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RS-fx,
So, if i understand your logic greyfox2, it is about :

i host a game without password so everyone can join so that i can play and have fun but if i am lucky enough to get more people than expected, i choose them and kick the others, even if they waited a long time because, i, the host, would have more fun in this case.

Finally, everything is around YOUR fun. it is your right but, personally, i find it pretty selfish : you kick the same less skilled players that allows you to play when there is not anybody else. Don't you think they deserve better ?

Did you think I was playing a game for your fun and entertainment?  It is a game I play for my fun of course.  If it isn't fun to me then I won't play it.  This is not a job that I do for everyone else.  It is inherently selfish.  Do you play computer games for someone else's benefit?  I have also said that if someone has been waiting a little while(meaning 5-10 minutes or more) then I generally do NOT kick them.  I have played many passworded games just so other people won't clog up the game or crash it to the lobby if there are enough on for it.  I am not saying this game is an easy one to pick up new players because it isn't(looking at player counts it is pretty obvious).  This has developed largely because of the rampant smurfing and because of the small community nature in which most of the regular players know each other and play a lot with each other.  Most of the regular players don't quit without a word if they lose a cap or a worthless outlying world.  I don't mind helping actual new players at all if they are willing to learn and listen although often they do not communicate much at all or are unwilling to listen.  Having new players in the game is fine if the teams are balanced with them in mind but it is difficult to do that when the smurfs will say they are new too or you are unsure of just how good of a smurf they are. 

Agent, you are able to host just as easily as everyone else.  You may not fill it in less than 1 minute but thats the way it goes.  Games that I host or join very often don't fill so quickly.  Sometimes it takes 30 minutes to an hour to actually start a game.  It requires a little patience.  I have nothing against you that I am aware of.  If you do not want to play in a game with me, that is up to you.  If you do then I have no problems with that either. 

 

[_]-Greyfox

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December 1, 2009 1:23:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Did you think I was playing a game for your fun and entertainment? It is a game I play for my fun of course. If it isn't fun to me then I won't play it. This is not a job that I do for everyone else. It is inherently selfish.

Yeah, you said all you needed to say right there (as if you hadn't already said all you needed to say).  I don't need to hear any more from you.  Sure, I understand that you view the game as an inherently selfish activity (and I have a feeling you view more things in the world as inherently selfish than just games).  I don't.  I put other things above my own selfish desires - things like sportsmanship, fairness, giving some other guy without a "big name" a chance to play, etc.  But maybe that's just me.

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December 1, 2009 3:36:37 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Greyfox2,
Did you think I was playing a game for your fun and entertainment?  It is a game I play for my fun of course.  If it isn't fun to me then I won't play it.  This is not a job that I do for everyone else.  It is inherently selfish.  Do you play computer games for someone else's benefit? 

human decency? Kindness? Respect to others? I know these might sound a little foreign to you, but I'd suggest reading up on them.

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December 1, 2009 3:38:57 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Now you are calling me unfair and unsportsmanlike?    I don't even recall ever playing you unless you were on a name other than agent of kharma.  I don't care about "big names" and kicking unknowns for knowns is attempting to make things fair for the game because you do not know what you are getting with an unknown.  A name is meaningless on ICO if you haven't noticed and most games in general.  I don't hide myself like some others do with smurf names so I can act like any sort of jackass and have little repercussions. 

I am glad you can put other things above your own selfish desires.  I am sure you play the game for the benefit of everyone else and you do not think even once about what you would like to do.  I am sure that you would rather be doing something else entirely and that if you were to leave then sins online would be worthless.  I did not know I was speaking to the Mother Teresa of SOASE.  Bless your unselfish soul.  If it weren't for the fact that you chose to badmouth the people that did not kick you or these other people out of a game instead of the person that did, I would think you were damn near the perfect specimen of online gaming.  You are a better man than I.

 

[_]-Greyfox

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December 1, 2009 3:46:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If it weren't for the fact that you chose to badmouth the people that did not kick you or these other people out of a game instead of the person that did

If you bothered to read, I criticized both.  And your clanmates were criticized because they were the ones who popped in and asked to "boot some newbs" so they could join.

I am pleasantly surprised that you are well-outnumbered on this thread.  Thank God.

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December 1, 2009 4:03:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The title of the thread and the majority of text afterwards was aimed at my clan only because you said they wanted him to boot some newbs as you say so they could play instead.  You barely mentioned pawelo and did not at all since then.  They were not the ones that booted anyone.  They asked them to be booted so they could play and they received what they asked for and instead of saying that pawelo was a jackass for kicking unknowns for people he knew, you talk crap about the clan in general and them specifically.  I state that berating others is not a good thing to do and that provided proof then I would deal with it.  You do not provide proof and instead insist on insulting my own ethics.  I however did not say anything insulting until insulted personally first and tried to be reasonable with someone that talked unreasonable about others that did not perform the action you were angry about(namely kicking someone out of a game).  I am no longer going to reason with you.  It is a fruitless endeavor.  Best of luck to you.

 

[_]-Greyfox

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December 1, 2009 4:45:30 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

The argument isn't that pawelo kicked them....tho of course that is an issue online. What agent was saying was that the two brothers in arms members acted like jackasses when telling pawelo to kick for them. what pawelo did was bad, but the 2 BiA members were, and i think the term is "douches" about it.

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