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ThreeLeafIvy
ThreeLeafIvy
Join Date 10/2009
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Missile/Beam pacts with non-identical races

December 25, 2009 4:03:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Other than the obvious "when allied with the same race as yours", what is the point of these unless you're allied with a race that actually uses these weapons?

The Vasari weapon-refire rate reduction is universally useful, and I can see a TEC/Vasari Missile/Refire pact duo being absolutely devastating, but what's the point of getting a Missile pact as TEC when allied with an Advent player? Same with the Advent's Beam Pact when allied with... anyone except another Advent player.

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ThreeLeafIvy
Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #1 December 25, 2009 5:04:48 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'd agree; these pacts should be scrapped in favour of some that are universally useful.

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Brazilian_Joe
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #2 December 25, 2009 8:08:45 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think that some pacts could be unilateral - I benevolently grant you access to our tech - while others would work bilaterally.

All pacts with same-race would work bilaterally, but the racial differentials would be one-way ex.: TEC armor, Advent shields, Vasari phase missiles. 

To work better, there should be the possibility of bargaining, i.e. asking 'what will you give me if I give you X', or 'What do you want in exchange of Y'? And being able to counter-offer.

 

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Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
+77
Reply #3 December 25, 2009 8:29:16 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

TEC and vasari DO have beam weapons... just... not very many.

and... i think... that the advent starbase 2nd weapon upgrade (psionic surge or something) is a missile weapon.

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Darvin3
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #4 December 25, 2009 10:24:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

TEC and vasari DO have beam weapons... just... not very many.

That's the problem.  They have so few beam attacks that the pact isn't useful to them, which is the point to begin with.  Not useless in the literal sense, but close enough for all intents and purposes.

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ThreeLeafIvy
ThreeLeafIvy
Join Date 10/2009
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Reply #5 December 25, 2009 10:30:29 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, another thing about it is that the pacts require the past ones to be researched too, of which I'm not sure of the reasoning. I can see why they'd be in successive tiers (I mean, numbers of civilian labs built) in order of relative usefulness, but in terms of the two I'm talking about: The TEC missile pact is at civilian tier 5. The Advent beam pact, tier 6.  Vasari refire rate pact tier 8.

With the Vasari one at the top civilian tech tree it's irrelevant, but for the TEC and Advent ones because the pacts need to be researched in order it could be considered a disadvantage in terms of resources spent and research time elapsed to unlock a pact the player may never use. This could be alleviated slightly simply by removing the prerequisite requirements from the pact research techs, but that's just another problem on top of their potential usefulness (or partial lack of, rather) to begin with.

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Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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Reply #6 December 26, 2009 1:07:40 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

just because the tec doesnt get much from the beam pack... the advent player does.

you might as well get any pacts you can with everyone... because while one of you may not benifit from it... the other one will.

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Phalnax811
Join Date 07/2007
+21
Reply #7 December 26, 2009 1:18:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't know about you but I will only do pacts with allies.  That's why I like locked teams

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Astax
Join Date 04/2003
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Reply #8 December 29, 2009 12:21:13 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Id like for the pacts to change the weapon type of your LRFs for example. Like if you get a beam pact, your lrms fire beams! but still benefit from your own missile research. This would be cool.

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ThreeLeafIvy
SZ0
Join Date 05/2008
+38
Reply #9 December 29, 2009 1:44:49 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Id like for the pacts to change the weapon type of your LRFs for example. Like if you get a beam pact, your lrms fire beams! but still benefit from your own missile research. This would be cool.

It would be cool, but, I can't see how this would benift both of the pact members anymore than it does now. If the pact only benifts your allies and not you it could be to your detriment later if they become your enemies, but isn't that what diplomacy is all about?

What I 'd like to see would be along the same lines as you are thinking, but once you have formed a pact with another faction, you are then able to research a particular thing like "co-operative design" for beam weapons or missiles or what ever the pact is, that gives you and that ally access to a new weapon or shield or what ever, that is better than either has, or at least different with more versatility. Like strong against shields and hull or something like that.

This could be difficult to implement though. I'm not sure how these new weapons could be added to ships that are allready made in game. I'm not sure, maybee it would be easier if a new ship was made available for the new weapons.

If it could be done, I think this would be cool.

 

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ThreeLeafIvy
Carnston
Join Date 03/2008
+7
Reply #10 December 30, 2009 1:59:36 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Astax,
reply 8
Id like for the pacts to change the weapon type of your LRFs for example. Like if you get a beam pact, your lrms fire beams! but still benefit from your own missile research. This would be cool.
You know, this makes me think back to Red Alert 2 where, if you got a spy into an enemy battle lab, you'd get access to a mixed technology unit; for instance, if you were an Allied nation, getting a spy into a Soviet battle lab would unlock Chrono Ivans.

What if these pacts could do the same? As examples, getting a beam pact with an Advent player as TEC would unlock beam cruisers, getting a missile pact with TEC as Advent would grant you cluster missile destroyers, and Vasari with the TEC siege pact would get a sort of micro-capital ship; a multirole heavy cruiser that can bomb planets and effectively fight other ships.

Of course, the balancing would be a bit nasty and the workload would be a bit heavy (Were my basic examples to go through, that'd be nine new ships, three for each race, which may well be more than Entrenchment had to offer), but I say it'd be worth it.

 

Although, I seriously doubt this is going to be implemented. I just figured I'd throw that idea out before I went to bed.

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Annatar11
Join Date 11/2006
+527
Reply #11 December 30, 2009 8:44:07 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

While I generally agree that that the Advent gets shafted on the TEC's Missile pact, and TEC gets shafted on the Advent's beam pact, that's apparently the idea behind this design decision and is not going to change.

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wbino
Join Date 02/2008
+21
Reply #12 December 30, 2009 11:17:53 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

      I personaly feel pacts were created because they couldnt think of enough DIPLOMATIC options. So we'll just add more ship enhancements.  Since I usually play single player 1x1 locked teams pacts are kind of pointless to me. Or am I wrong?

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Benjist
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #13 December 30, 2009 11:29:52 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I wouldn't mind one of the Vassari pacts being that other players could use your phase "inhibitator" - is it? (The one that has dark armada function) so that your allies could travel through them to different places which has one like you can with them if your Vessari.

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Brazilian_Joe
Join Date 03/2009
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Reply #14 December 30, 2009 3:52:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think that some of the weapon pacts could add weapon banks on ships which would improve their firepower.

A Beam pact would increase the effectiveness of beams, as well as adding bemas to ships which would otherwise not have them. 

 

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