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Template Issues

No luck on templates but I have a working map where players start/spawn at dead/asteroids only.

By on January 27, 2010 7:17:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

worldstrider

Join Date 01/2010
+2

I haven't found a conclusive post on this and I have tried examples from the forum here and from the wiki--they work if I past them verbatim but if I change ANYTHING they do not work.

For example, I can take a template that gives a light frigate as given, paste and save it as a galaxy file and no prob.  If I change ANYTHING in that file, it does not work.  Try to make it a heavy frigate, or a cap ship or Psi instead of Tech and it won't run.

Any suggestions?  I have created maps succesfully and changed planet and star parameters easily but the templates just don't merge succesfully no matter what I change.

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January 27, 2010 7:49:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

you can create galaxyforge templates in galaxy forge just by doubleclicking on a planet/star.

one useful tip is if you want a independent colony at a particular planet spawn a colony frigate there it also makes the gw more resistant to superweapons as in it will re-colonise the gw when able to.

hope this helps

harpo

 

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January 28, 2010 1:06:19 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks for the reply.  I haven't used GF for a template yet as I wasn't sure of all the parameters required.  I assumed by taking a working template and editing it one item at a time I could get a better understanding--no idea why that is not working.

I'll try the GF idea.  I haven't been modding or making major changes--just trying to get a simple custom template patterned after simple examples working.

Unless they deal with entity files for custom-made items, all your template elements are contained only in the galaxy file (I know they reference external files like entity files, etc.), correct?  There isn't some other place templates are stored aside from the galaxy file?

Thanks for the tip, I'll go experiment.

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January 28, 2010 2:49:16 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

worldstrider, I do not know of any locations OTHER than the galaxy files that have templates

harpo

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January 28, 2010 4:44:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Me either but every time I assume something like that it's usually followed by an "Oh Duh!" moment

Good to know.

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January 28, 2010 4:03:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting worldstrider,

Unless they deal with entity files for custom-made items, all your template elements are contained only in the galaxy file (I know they reference external files like entity files, etc.), correct?  There isn't some other place templates are stored aside from the galaxy file?

The GalaxySenarioDef file controls the universal (default) templates, though obviously these need to be changed via mod not map making.

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January 28, 2010 9:05:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Right--I was aware of those (but haven't messed with them).  Just trying to get a basic cusom template working.  I'm working on a map with mod-like qualities but that is simply a standard map so it can be played regardless of version.

Thanks for the reply.

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January 28, 2010 9:12:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

^Also, maybe this article will help with the template making.

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January 28, 2010 9:52:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks!  I hadn't found that one--very helpful.  Galaxy forge does a good job usually of creating stable maps at least.  I'll go tinker much now with the template part and see what I can get from it.

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January 31, 2010 6:13:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I am still having mutiple issues with templates not working but on an off note, I created a map where players spawn with no homeworld at dead asteroids.  I was told this isn't possible?

If I can get the stupid templates working I'll upload it.  Galaxy Forge doesn't show all the drop down options in the differnt fields in the template and will not (so far) save any edits in the map file that I make.

About to do a clean reinstall see if that helps.

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January 31, 2010 11:21:31 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting worldstrider,
I am still having mutiple issues with templates not working but on an off note, I created a map where players spawn with no homeworld at dead asteroids.  I was told this isn't possible?

It is, though unless you want it to be a "find a homeworld" type game, this usually isn't a good map making idea.

Quoting worldstrider,

If I can get the stupid templates working I'll upload it.  Galaxy Forge doesn't show all the drop down options in the differnt fields in the template and will not (so far) save any edits in the map file that I make.

So what exactly are you wanting the templates to do?

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January 31, 2010 11:41:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I got them working somewhat but it is on and off.  They partly work--sometimes fully then stop.

It seems the default templates in the entity files are overiding the scripted ones.  I'll keep plinking.

I have a 6v1 map and a 2v2 that require set starting bases.  Only way I could make it happen and keep balance for the maps was to start at non standard worlds. 

I am trying to get the following to start at seven dead asteroids (I have them starting there at least so far).

1) Advent and/or Tech Players (six total) start with One colonizer frigate and  three heavy frigates.

2) Phase player (only one) starts with a capital ship colonizer. 

Both sides start at dead asteroids where I would like to spawn Wormhole artifacts for all at each dead asteroid (if that's possible).  They basically take a one-way wormhole from the start point and the game is on.  The phase cap ship will force the colonizers to move and he has a differnt exit where he will need the cap ship to survive travel through.   That's my best work around for not being able to designate start points.  I'd like it to be a map not a mod.

I have got the frigates to appear but when I try labs or cap ships either only the frigates appear or it breaks the template. I've tried seting it in GF, copying and modding several player templates on the forum but it just doesn't tweak right.  My best guess is somehow I am not directing the defaults for the worlds away to be replaced by my custom template.  So when they overlap, the forces that appear in standard appear (like the frigates) but otherwise nothing else will.  So if the default calls for 4 frigates and my custom calls for four frigates and a cap, I'll get the frigates but not the cap--its a guess.

The forum examples all use slightly varied approaches--differences in syntax in some areas, order, etc.  Confusing to a noob but the templates seem to be ridiculously easy--shouuldn't be too hard.

But as an example, I can cut and paste a particular template from the forum--works fine.  If I change ONE parameter, it stops working.  Change a frigate to a cap--doesn't work.  Change it to a scout--doesn't work, etc.

Any help appreciated.  I am sure there is a particular line entry that needs changing that I am missing somewhere in the planet area.  no idea what, I have tinkered with all.

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January 31, 2010 4:49:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

my suggestion or the starting at asteriods issue is to make the asteriod a home for the player, tested and works, here isa tested template  to do exactly what you want with the spawning of ships

templates 1
template
    templateName "starts"
    subTemplates 0
    groups 6
    group
        condition
            type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart"
            param "Tech"
        owner "PlanetOwner"
        colonizeChance 0.000000
        items 4
        item "Tech:Frigate:Colony"
        item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
    group
        condition
            type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart"
            param "Psi"
        owner "PlanetOwner"
        colonizeChance 0.000000
        items 4
        item "Psi:Frigate:Colony"
        item "Psi:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Psi:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Psi:Frigate:Heavy"
    group
        condition
            type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart"
            param "Phase"
        owner "PlanetOwner"
        colonizeChance 0.000000
        items 1
        item "Phase:CapitalShip:Colony"
    group
        condition
            type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceQuickStart"
            param "Tech"
        owner "PlanetOwner"
        colonizeChance 0.000000
        items 4
        item "Tech:Frigate:Colony"
        item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Tech:Frigate:Heavy"
    group
        condition
            type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceQuickStart"
            param "Psi"
        owner "PlanetOwner"
        colonizeChance 0.000000
        items 4
        item "Psi:Frigate:Colony"
        item "Psi:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Psi:Frigate:Heavy"
        item "Psi:Frigate:Heavy"
    group
        condition
            type "PlanetOwnerIsRaceQuickStart"
            param "Phase"
        owner "PlanetOwner"
        colonizeChance 0.000000
        items 1
        item "Phase:CapitalShip:Colony"

hope this helps

harpo

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January 31, 2010 8:24:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks--I actually made some progress just before this post.  I set three groups for spawns relative to technology type and it worked--only all of the units appear rather than just the race specific one.  I think I know why.  I'll take your template as my past ones got sucked into the vortex with my vanishing ironclad folder today and reengineer them.

Very helpful sir.  kudos to you, kudos I say!"

I think it may be info regarding the planet ownership and the conditions that are causing my issues.  Excellent template example.

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January 31, 2010 11:20:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well...your template pasted in over my own template and rechecked at planets for group numbers and all, caused no ships to spawn again.

I have gotten ALL the ships for ALL the sides to spawn as on one side,  a mix of the ones I specified and militia (apparently) mixed with my custom choices al on each planet's player side but not JUST the ones for the specified race/tech.

I haven't reinstalled yet but this is ridiculous.  I wish I had saves of the ones I lost because each was a partly working -but differing--example and I could have compared.

I'll keep hacking away at it.

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January 31, 2010 11:26:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Have you edited the GalaxyDef file? Thats the only way I know to get templates to work.

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February 1, 2010 12:20:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

No, I am selecting FALSE for use default templates and then placing a custom template at page bottom and pointing in the planet desciptions to it--but it seems some form of the default templates seems to be "persistent".  Not sure what I am missing.  I want a map not a mod so others can play it without having to run it as a mod.

I am getting the normal "militia" mix of ships in several of my attempts mixed in with some of the custom ones I want present.  I have had a little success spawning just the ships I want but still missing some (but no militia mixed) in those cases.

So one template will work only if copied verbatim--if one character is changed it breaks.

Another will work but cannot be modified.

Yet another will simply have no effect.

Others spawn random results.

It must be the time warp because madness fills the air--buI hope not for very much longer--I don't want to do the time warp again.

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February 1, 2010 12:41:21 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Grrr...fourms go boom.

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February 1, 2010 2:24:58 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ok, time to type this again...hopefully the forums wont eat it again.

 

Just be sure Im understanding whats going on you are using Galaxy Forge to insert your custom templates? If so thats the problem, Galaxy Forge is broken. Templates dont work unless you insert them manually via Notepad. And even so, depending on what your adding you may have to tweak the GalaxyDef file. I know you dont want too, I dont blame you either. lol

Am I understanding the issue? Or did I miss something?

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February 1, 2010 2:55:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I started doing them myself--I am aware GF can't render some functions (like the crash if you select planetracetype).  I have done a merge--used GF then hand corrected.  I have cut and pasted verbatim and cut and pasted with editing.

There are several maps with working templates--for example--I can run the template Voruk's Labyrinth but if I edit or alter one character after pasting it in, it ceases to work.

One from the wiki I can paste in as it is an entire world file--if I change anything on it, ceases to work.

So as templates are supposed to work, what gives here?  What tweaks would be required--if we are talking changing the default planet templates I would prefer not to.  I would rather people be able to play the map without having to replace files.

For my own purposes, I could actually almost make it work as is to accomplish the map goal--but not quite.

Is it possible to create militia that are allied with Psi, Tech or Phase players specifically?  If so, then I can work it that way by putting militia in.    I have one other alternative but I am working to make sure players are forced to play the map teams as required.

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February 1, 2010 6:19:12 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

worldstrider, I HAD used GF to create MOST of the template that I posted, and then edited the in the 'PlanetOwnerIsRaceNormalStart' inplace of the "invalid" that GF  throws in, then duplicated the three race groups and increased the group count, the map had a asteriod as the home planet owned by the player and played properly.

also in the player definitions you can force the particular player to be a particular race, also you can have a particular race's ships spawn for a given race militia on a planet, and if you include a colony frigate then the gs will become a militia of the race.

if you want me to help fix your map and templates you could email it to me at harpo99999 at hotmail.com

harpo

 

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February 1, 2010 6:36:38 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks harpo--let me play with it a bit and I will tell you what I want to do in the maps if I can't get a handle on it.  Not faulting your experience at all.  I deleted my template in my map, copied and pasted yours in, altered the template name and template and group number totals and--didn't work.  Same with most.

There is a GF version 1 map sample on the forum that works fine if I copy the entire map.  If I edit a single item in it, the entire map ceases to work and crashes the game.  There are two others I have grabbed that paste in fine but if I make an alteration, they cease to work--the game will run but the template produces no effect. Another produces the frigates but will not produce anything else.

On the other ones I tried various tweaking on, I get mixed faction forces instead of the race specific one and in all cases of them I get a "militia mix"--Tech Kodiaks and frigates, etc.

I'll send you an email (I am worldstrider in my mail fyi) with the entire map.

I would be really interested to know what the issues are that cause these variations--there is def some conflict with template loading and default entity files (I'm guessing).  Some official documentation of what the issues are would be wonderful.  Fortunately I only have two maps I want to work like this.  Lol--I have a lot of respect for the modders out there now.

The 6v1 map requires the best player to play the "1" and he must be Vasari.  The others can be a single team of 6 versus him or they can be an Advent, tech 3v3v1.  Since I can't control which player gets what planet nor can I insure the better players get their assigned poisitions, I have to use mechanisms in the map to force people to their spots (the curse of being an old school strategy board gamer).

In the bigger and easier map, I am shooting for a "game within the game"...where winning the map strategy is the real key to victory not using rapid fire tactical shots to win via SINs mechanics.  In both cases though I am trying to keep it as a map so players can play it how they like.

Thanks to both of you for the help.  I had done the same thing with the GF "invalid" items and get the ships mixed together.

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February 1, 2010 6:54:06 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I swear I am not making this up or hallucinating.  I just went back in to hand edit and had opened and saved the map (though I did no editing).  here is what Galaxy Forge appeared to have inserted as a result:

planet
  designName "Planet55"
  inGameName "THREE"
  type "DeadAsteroid"
  pos [ 176 , 539 ]
  owner "NewPlayer2"
  isHomePlanet TRUE
  normalStartUpgradeLevelForPopulation 0
  normalStartUpgradeLevelForCivilianModules 0
  normalStartUpgradeLevelForTacticalModules 0
  normalStartUpgradeLevelForArtifacts 0
  normalStartUpgradeLevelForInfrastructure 0
  quickStartUpgradeLevelForPopulation 0
  quickStartUpgradeLevelForCivilianModules 0
  quickStartUpgradeLevelForTacticalModules 0
  quickStartUpgradeLevelForArtifacts 0
  quickStartUpgradeLevelForInfrastructure 0
  planetItems
   templateName ""
   subTemplates 1
   template "ShipList"
   groups 7
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
   group
    condition
     type "Always"
     param ""
    owner "NoOwner"
    colonizeChance 0.000000
    items 0
  spawnProbability 1.000000
  useDefaultTemplate FALSE

 That's from me messing around--I haven't run the map as this but wow--there's something "happening" that affects all this.

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February 1, 2010 2:15:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have seen a similar result in another map with the map template which had NO spawns repeated 1000 times, and NO I do no know  what causes this, but if you  want to add ships to the spawns do not forget to increase the items count, and I SHOULD warn you that sins IS EXTREMELY case sensitive. in the template I posted earlier I had tested it in sins at the end of the map with a template use of start. here is one of the homeplanets

        designName "Planet0"
        inGameName ""
        type "Asteroid"
        pos [ 76 , 184 ]
        owner "NewPlayer0"
        isHomePlanet TRUE
        normalStartUpgradeLevelForPopulation 0
        normalStartUpgradeLevelForCivilianModules 0
        normalStartUpgradeLevelForTacticalModules 0
        normalStartUpgradeLevelForArtifacts 0
        normalStartUpgradeLevelForInfrastructure 0
        quickStartUpgradeLevelForPopulation 2
        quickStartUpgradeLevelForCivilianModules 2
        quickStartUpgradeLevelForTacticalModules 2
        quickStartUpgradeLevelForArtifacts 2
        quickStartUpgradeLevelForInfrastructure 2
        planetItems
            templateName ""
            subTemplates 1
            template "starts"
            groups 0
        spawnProbability 1.000000
        useDefaultTemplate FALSE

hope this extra info helps

harpo

 

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February 1, 2010 4:12:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks--it's pretty obvious that SINs is "sensitive"--that's part of the problem.  Slight changes in values and the mix on the forum of old and new syntax--sometimes working together ok and others not.  On one map I simply changed the Galaxy Forge version  number at the top of the map from "2" to "3" and the entire game crashed on startup.

I haven't been able to work on it since I last posted but in a few hours will be back at it.  I have been intentionally altering values to see what effects it produces.  Thanks for the tip.  I'll let you know a few hours from now how its going.

Ironically, all this would be solved if you could just designate specific starting worlds for player slots in the map.  Essentially what I am trying to do with the two maps is set up a chessboard and that means all the pieces have to be in their assigned starting poisitions--a queen can't be where the pawn goes or it isn't "chess" anymore.  SINs is more like checkers--all the pieces are the same.

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February 1, 2010 4:50:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

the map format changes from version 2 to version 3 ARE massive, each planet gets the normal start and quickstart levels, the players also get them and the templates.

regarding the fixed starting locations look at line 8 in the map file

randomizeStartingPositions TRUE

if this is set to FALSE then each player starts in the same position each time, if it is TRUE the ech time the players can start in different starts.

hope this helps also

harpo

 

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