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[MOD] The Sins Optimization Project version 0.08 (updated 9/5/11)

The Sins 2 gig crash issue has now been DEFEATED!

By on March 15, 2010 8:56:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Major Stress

Join Date 05/2006
+138

It is difficult to explain the issues Sins have without going into too much "tech" which some will not understand. The problem is that Sins is a 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte memory limit. This is nothing new. Since all 32 bit games have a 2 gig memory limit. However Sins is NOT like other 32 bit games. Most games load their assets "on the fly", or only as needed. Some games unload what is not needed. Sins on the other hand loads almost ALL of its assets at game startup. These assets remain loaded throughout the entire game. The size of the map, and the amount of players, or AI's also determine how much ram will be used.

In 2006 when Sins was first conceived 2 gigs was considered to be "plenty" of memory. So most game developers didn't have to worry about hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. As time went on Computers, and Sins itself evolved into their present state which is Diplomacy, and dual/quad core 64 bit systems. Things have changed over the years. Much more content was added to Sins with the two expansions. Most people now use 64 bit systems, and have much more than 2 gigs of ram. However Sins still remains a 32 bit game. With a two gigabyte hard coded memory limit. Sins WILL CRASH when the game reaches that 2 gig limit.

There is some misunderstanding about the 2 gig crash issue. The dump happens when Sins reaches 2 gigs of Ram Usage. That means the ram Sins itself uses. NOT what your entire operating system, and/or other programs you are running combined uses. Only the ram that Sins uses. No matter how powerful your system is. If it is 32, or 64 bit, or if it is Windows XP, Vista, or Windows 7. Sins WILL CRASH when it hits its 2 gig ram limit. It is hard coded into the game.

Nobody was aware that this would be a major problem back when the game was first designed, because Sins was designed based on the hardware standards of 2006-2007. Before 64 bit OS's, Quad Core cpu's, and 4+ gig ram systems became the standard that they are now. There is nothing that can be done about it. Except to re-write Sins in 64 bit. Which is out of the question, because it is too cost prohibitive for the developers. Sins is a great game, and it is a shame that this is happening. Entrenchment, and Diplomacy unintentionally pushed Sins over its own limitations with all of the new added content.

The Sins developers can not do anything to change the game at this time. However there is something that WE can do as modders to prevent Sins from hitting that dreaded 2 gig brick wall. I have taken the initiative, and applied to Sins what i have learned from my Homeworld Modding days. I present to you....

 

aka the "Taste Great, Less Filling" mod.

The goal of this project is to improve your Vanilla Sins game experience, and to eliminate the 2 gig crash issue. No changes will be made to Vanilla Sins gameplay at all. No stat changes will be made. Nothing will be added. There are other mods for that. We are optimizing what assets Sins already has to improve performance, and stability in game. The side benefit will be that some lower end systems can enjoy almost the same experience as the high end users.

The project initially started out as an idea to reduce the texture sizes, and poly counts of some models. Not just arbitrary reductions. The goal was to maintain the quality of Sins in game. To look like nothing has been changed at all. 

As of version 0.07 there are no longer any modded planet, and skybox meshes. Unfortunately the problems caused by the unfixable mesh errors from the poly reductions were not worth what little memory was gained from those optimizations. As i said the goal was to make it look like nothing has been changed at all.

Just with a few optimizations alone the games performance had a noticeable improvement. Though not much ram was saved.

I studied the Particle files, and textures. Many of the particle textures IMO were also way to high resolution. A reduction by 1/2 showed no visible difference in game in most cases.  There were some exceptions where it did effect the appearence in game, and those textures were left alone. Remember the goal was not to reduce in game quality. Also all of the particle textures were changed from TGA format to DDS format, because DDS uses far less memory, and is much more efficient. The particles also utilize the mip mapping features of DDS. Therefore enhancing in game video performance. As of version 0.07 no TGA format textures load in TSOP. With the exceptions of Mouse Cursors, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to those textures being controlled by the hard coded exe.

The developers mentioned something about a Memory Leak. I heard that a leak can be caused by a file calling for something over, and over again if it is not there. Example a mesh file calling for a texture that does not exist. Vanilla Sins has MANY particle, and mesh files that do that. I removed all of the redundant entries that pointed to non existent textures in the mesh, and particle files. I also removed the entries that have lines like "C;\gs\main\datasource\textures\effects\aura4.dds", and just put "aura4.dds". This will default the search to the mods texture folder, and speed things up. Also various typo's were corrected in some mesh, and particle files. Some ships have mesh nulls that were miss-spelled. For example the Akkan had typos on its engine nulls, and flairs. The engine trail, and flair didnt show up in game. the Marza was missing its bomb nulls. All of this has been corrected as well. If there is a ship mesh file in the mod then it had something wrong that was fixed. Regardless if this caused a memory leak, or not these errors had to be fixed.

After the Meshes, Particles, Textures, and the User Interface were optimized, and some very obvious bugs were fixed there was a tremendous boost in game performance. Sins ram usage was greatly reduced. As of version 0.07 no game i ran ever went above 1.5 gigs on Diplomacy with maximum settings. Including Bloom enabled. Tested on Huge random multi star maps with 9 AI's. The 2 gig crash problem is solved. Our primary goal with this project has been achieved! Without having to use some risky "EXE hack"!

Now TSOP is focusing on other ways to optimize the game to reduce late game lag as much as possible.  Also we are searching for more bugs as part of the Community Bug Fix effort.... It's a "Bug Hunt" now

NOTE: As of the latest Diplomacy series of patches v1.2+. Diplomacy no longer needs TSOP. Much of TSOP was incorporated into the 1.2-1.3+ series of patches. So the Diplomacy version of TSOP will no longer be linked here since it is now deemed obsolete.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Our Website

http://soase.weebly.com/tsop.html


Some sections are still under construction

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Downloads

The Sins Optimization Project v0.08

The User Interface is completely overhauled to use pure DDS format.

Trade Ships,  Strike Craft, Mines, and Constructor Unit meshes are Optimized.

Sounds, and Music are optimized.

All TGA format Textures are replaced with DDS format, and TSOP "force" loads them. The only TGA textures that remain are the Mouse Cursers, and Scenario Pictures. This is due to hard code in the EXE.

As part of the Community Bug Fix Effort, Many Mesh Null miss-labels were corrected, and Unnecessary Text Entry's were removed in both the Mesh, and Particle files. Entry's pointing to Non Existent Textures in both the mesh, and particle files removed. See the various "Fixed Files" texts in the mods Read Me for details.

The Diplomacy 1.2 graphic fix's have been incorporated into the Entrenchment, and the Original Sins versions of TSOP (Pipeline Effects, "White Line" error fix, and Corrected Mesh files).

As of TSOP 0.08 ALL textures have been reverted back to original Vanilla Sins Resolutions, but are all in DDS format. The Mip Mapping feature of DDS format "should" reduce any early game lag. Late game lag is still a problem, and is a CPU issue from too many units on the map in late game. Not a graphics issue. Graphic optimizations can not fix this.

As of the Diplomacy 1.2 patch, The issues that compelled us to create TSOP are now fixed! TSOP for Diplomacy is no longer required, and is now deemed "obsolete"! Many of the TSOP fix's, and improvements have been incorporated by Ironclad into the Diplomacy 1.2+ series of patches! We will no longer work on a Diplomacy version of TSOP. However, If we find something "game breaking" wrong with the new series of patches. Then we shall reconsider.

The Planets, Skybox's, Asteroids, Structures, Map objects, and various Other Ways to reduce the Late Game Lag issue will be looked into for any future updates.

Community input, and contributions are more than welcome, and they are encouraged! This is a Community Project! All can pitch in!

You do not need to download all versions of TSOP. You only need to download the version of TSOP for which version of Sins you wish to play. The Retail version of Trinity is just all three versions of Sins bundled into one package. Installation for Trinity versions of Sins are no different than if you purchased each version of Sins separately.

TSOP 0.08 For Original Sins v1.191

 

TSOP 0.08 For Entrenchment v1.051

 

TSOP For Diplomacy is no longer required. Since the Diplomacy 1.2 patch TSOP for Diplomacy is now obsolete.


Since TSOP Diplomacy is now obsolete. We will not host a "trinity" version.

However, when Rebellion is released we will look into what is needed (if anything at all), and perhaps make a combined version of TSOP in the future.

 

Add-On's, and Patches

TSOP Optional Lower Texture Resolution Add On

Optional Add On for those with VERY LOW END SYSTEMS. This Add-On "replaces" the full resolution TSOP 0.08 textures with the "strategically reduced resolution" textures from TSOP 0.07. Use this add-on ONLY if you suffer extreme graphic lag in the early game. If you still lag badly with this add on, chances are your system can not handle Sins. Use at your own risk.

Our Downloads page with optional Add-On's for TSOP

Read the Read Me's, and associated documentation for each version of TSOP, and add-on for important installation, and removal instructions. Plus other important information.

Sorry for the separate downloads. Together the project is over 600 megs with the sound, and music files, and most file host wont let you upload that much.  If your download is corrupt try downloading another version. The Mesh, Particles, Textures, Sounds, and Music files are all interchangeable between each version. Replace any corrupt files with another versions files.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

This project is far from a perfect solution, and it is still rough around the edges. It is improving as time passes.

Other mods are more than welcome to use TSOP. No questions asked! In fact we encourage it! Learn from it! Use it as guide, and an example! Merge it into your projects!

TSOP is intended to be a Stand Alone mod. Run with no other mods enabled. There are issues enabling TSOP with other mods. Enabling with other "Graphic Enhancement" mods is NOT recommended, because the graphic enhancement mod will defeat the entire purpose of TSOP. All of our optimized files will be overridden by that enhancement mods "enhanced" files. Increasing your ram usage instead of decreasing it. Some enhancement mods like Distant Stars are incorporating elements of TSOP into their future updates.

Read the included READ ME text's for installation instructions.

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April 13, 2012 10:38:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Too bad this game can't be re-written for 64bit support. :/

 

This is a great game. I'm wondering why they're still updating it, considering that they're updating a 4-6 (?) year old game. Technology has skyrocketed since then.

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April 14, 2012 3:28:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

They are updating it because it is a great game.

This is an old subject. Talked about over, and over about since TSOP was first thought of. If they did 64 bit then the dev's would have to do it all over again from scratch. Which would not be cost effective for them. They might as well make Sins 2 if that is the case. I am sure IC considered the idea, but felt it better just to leave Sins 32 bit. I can see all the problems that "could" happen if they re-wrote the game. Sins had the misfortune to be designed, and released during the major transition period between 32, and 64 bit tech. However IC did accomplish the goal of Sins being able to run on a wide range of machines.

Homeworld stayed very popular with little to no updates for a good 6-8 years. Even after HW2 was released Homeworld remained popular until its age really started to show. HW1's tech was dated within the first year of its release. HW2 was just a major upgrade of the HW1 engine. Not a new engine IIRC. Rebellions transition is similar. Though it still remains Sins.

Technology is always going to skyrocket way past what PC's that games are intended are capable of within months of release. That is just the nature of PC gaming. Its called "force upgrading".

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June 2, 2012 5:15:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I love this game and just recently got back into playing it a bit. I'm really confused about the current status of this mod. Can someone tell me how to download the correct version of tsop for entrenchment 1.053? Are there multiple files or just one? 

Does this mod's improvements only apply to lan play, or is it also viable for ironclad online games? (I know its a dumb question but I don't care)


I also notice you are having server problems. Might I suggest this might be a time when torrent links are in order? If someone is torrent savvy they can just host the files for a few months until it gets around the community, then it should be a lot easier to find the mod files for people in the future.

 

thanks

 

 

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June 2, 2012 7:22:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

the main differences between the 1.05x versions is in the string file, so the 1.051 tsop should work fine in 1.053.

harpo

 

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June 2, 2012 8:40:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

thx, and fast reply too! Here, have some cookies

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June 3, 2012 1:31:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thanks harpo.

A crazy busy real life doesnt help us when it comes to keeping up on things here too.

We have plans on updating TSOP. However that is all they are for now. Just plans. We know that Rebellion will most certainly need a new version of TSOP despite all of the optimizations it already has. The older versions of TSOP while they still work are getting dated, and a few patches have happened since we last updated. We discontinued TSOP for Diplomacy, because ironclad has included the core elements of TSOP in the most recent patches. However looking back i think we can conjur up a new version for Diplomacy to include the texture optimizations that IC didnt include.

Just know we got plans

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June 30, 2012 6:28:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Anyone know where I can find a download link for the auto dock/undock for hanger bays?

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July 1, 2012 4:26:06 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ben_Maxwell,
Anyone know where I can find a download link for the auto dock/undock for hanger bays?

never got it to work 

 

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July 1, 2012 6:55:47 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ah I see, I remember when I first tried to install it, it wasn't working, thought if I could have a play around with it again. Its a shame as it really would be a good idea.

Did anyone pursue the avenue of when Cap Ships are jumping out system, fighters automatically return to the hangers on those ships, could we create something which states automatically return to hangers unless there is an enemy present?

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July 6, 2012 3:04:42 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting myfist0,
never got it to work

 

I know there was some discussion about this a year ago but I had thought it had been solved? MajorStress may have a good idea of where to start looking if he does not have the answer outright; as I believe this was first discussed in response to his TSOP mod thread.

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July 6, 2012 10:42:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thing is it was an old add on that was on Myfist0s now dead TSOP weebly. I don't have it, and i haven't a clue how they got it to work, or if it ever worked right at all. I had nothing to do with the strike craft add on. So i couldn't begin to tell you what made it tick. I also suffer from CRS (Cant Remember Shit). Who worked on that project anyway?. I am having a hard enough time re-learning what i did for the Original TSOP. It's been that long since i messed around with it lol.

Now that we got 1.03 reference files i can now start doing with rebellion what we did with trinity, and BUG hunt. Anyone care to join me?

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July 6, 2012 11:26:22 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

stress, just had steam 'update' rebellion to 1.02. do not know WHY, but suggest enjoying the family a bit longer.

harpo

 

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July 6, 2012 11:48:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

OK that is strange. better check my version b4 i dive into this.

BTW i plan on starting a new TSOP: Rebellion topic as soon as i get started on this. I would like all who worked with me on the previous versions of TSOP to chime in. Plus any new guys who wish to help out.

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July 7, 2012 12:37:43 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You got it.

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July 7, 2012 12:50:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Major Stress,
OK that is strange. better check my version b4 i dive into this.

BTW i plan on starting a new TSOP: Rebellion topic as soon as i get started on this. I would like all who worked with me on the previous versions of TSOP to chime in. Plus any new guys who wish to help out.

Awesome sir.

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July 12, 2012 6:35:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ben_Maxwell,
Anyone know where I can find a download link for the auto dock/undock for hanger bays?

Mod is called

SquadronAutomation

Creator:

Mystic Angel

http://forums.stardock.com/392082

 

if no download available it is also included in the SOTYR mod. Just look at the planet entities and the ability/buff

 

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July 12, 2012 4:25:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting TobiWahn_Kenobi,

Quoting Ben_Maxwell, reply 1083Anyone know where I can find a download link for the auto dock/undock for hanger bays?

Mod is called

SquadronAutomation

Creator:

Mystic Angel

http://forums.stardock.com/392082

 

if no download available it is also included in the SOTYR mod. Just look at the planet entities and the ability/buff

 

 

Yeah!

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July 13, 2012 8:27:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

G'Kar is wise.

 

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July 13, 2012 11:00:22 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

OK guys. This topic is now DEAD. We opened a new topic here for TSOP: Rebellion. Original TSOP will be updated as well. Lets move all discussions there.

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August 18, 2012 1:50:46 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hi Major, 

Been using your mod fomodel 2 days now. 

Thanks for your work btw.... 

I just wanna ask you, is it a common problem that my achievements is always resetting every time I play the game with this model? 

Wonder if I did something silly. 

Thanks. 

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August 18, 2012 2:03:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinperium,
G'Kar is wise.

 

bribot...not so wise.  

Check the reply above yours sir.

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August 18, 2012 2:17:51 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Shoot, 

Dunno why I posted here. 

Thought i was already in the right topic.

Pardon me

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August 18, 2012 5:48:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

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August 26, 2012 9:40:02 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So....where exactly do I get The Sins Optimization Project? I am using Sins version 1.182, and 1.193; Diplomacy versions 1.00 and 1.34; Entrenchment version 1.042 and version 1.053. These are the folders in my modding options. Any direct links would be appreciated, all responses are useful.

~Thank You~

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August 26, 2012 2:42:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The link for the original Sins version, and the low resolution add on still work. Ill work on getting links back up on the TSOP: Rebellion topic, but you want to delete your obsolete mod folders.

The only mod folders that should be there if your game is current, and up to date are

Original Sins: Mods-v1.193

Entrenchment: Mods-Entrenchment v1.053

Diplomacy; Mods-Diplomacy v1.34

You do not need TSOP for Diplomacy any more. There is no current version of TSOP for Diplomacy, because Ironclad incorporated most of it into the latest Diplomacy patch.

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