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returning armada

By on July 19, 2010 3:01:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

a110

Join Date 06/2010
+6

i researched both levels of this ability and used it for 2500 dollars and got a couple ships - a light frigate and a heavy cruiser. this seems ridiculous, or am i missing something? maybe i looked away too fast and missed the rest of the reinforcements? i don't think i got anything else though.

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July 19, 2010 11:00:52 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It uses your supply. If you have no supply, it doesn't give you anything...

Normally I get a mixture of two carriers, two heavies, three assailants, and one sentinel.

(generally not all at once, but a mixture of these)

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July 19, 2010 5:07:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

ya, if you use it right... it gives... i wanna say 75 fleet supply worth of stuff.

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July 19, 2010 5:17:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Pbhead,
ya, if you use it right... it gives... i wanna say 75 fleet supply worth of stuff.

First level is 45-60 fleet supply.

Second level is 75-90 fleet supply.

Both tiers have the same randomShip weights.

Light - 2

LongRange - 6

Heavy - 6

AntiFighter - 3

Carrier -5

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July 19, 2010 9:50:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This ability gives you a superb number of units for a very reasonable price.  As has been mentioned, this presumes you have open fleet command for it to fill.  There are three issues it has beyond this:

1) It's very expensive to research, and that's not even considering the cost of the phase stabilizers themselves.  You need at least 4 or 5, if not 8 or 9, for this ability to be worthwhile.

2) You don't control which types of units you get, so it's somewhat of a gamble that you'll get good unit types (Assailant, Sentinel, Carrier) over bad types (Enforcer, Skirmisher). 

3) The Kostura is probably the most effective "match-ender" weapon in the entire game, and it's easier to unlock than this ability, so it's kind of redundant in that sense.

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July 20, 2010 6:10:40 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah! I agree with that. I remember getting a capital or 2 a fair while back when I used to use it. Unless I'm mistaken. It was awhile back.

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July 20, 2010 6:45:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

RA never gave capitals.....ever

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July 21, 2010 3:35:32 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, your probably right. I still definitely remember this happening though, perhaps it was a mod. Its hard to remember whats what these days.

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August 31, 2010 8:59:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

ok the more i use this the more i feel that its a rip off, first you need to get both levels of the phase tunneling speed increase, then the ability itself only seems to be viable at level 2, and finally it costs 2500 dollars and 500 crystals (!) to use once (i used to think it spawned multiple ships over time). is it actually less cost-efficient compared to building the ships yourself, especially if you have both slave labor and optimized construction?

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August 31, 2010 10:00:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@a110: the fixed upfront cost is high and you need multiple phase stabilizers (min 4), but the credit / resource cost is way more efficient than building yourself. It varies but usually it is 2:1 bang for the buck in favor of RA. Still you only get some types of units.

Btw are Enforcers really that bad? I tend to avoid skirmishers but are enforcers in the doghouse to the same extent?

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August 31, 2010 11:18:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

is it actually less cost-efficient compared to building the ships yourself, especially if you have both slave labor and optimized construction?

No, it's much more cost-effective than building units.  This is the whole advantage of the ability. 

 

Btw are Enforcers really that bad? I tend to avoid skirmishers but are enforcers in the doghouse to the same extent?

Not quite so bad since their damage buff, but still a questionable unit. 

Biggest problem is that they don't use phase missiles, which is a big deal late game, especially against Advent.

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September 1, 2010 12:38:51 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That is true, phase missiles when upgraded are insane. I just find that enforcers draw a lot of enemy fire, are relatively tough to kill and if I skimp on them, I end up losing too many lrm too fast. But for sure assailants, sentinels, and bombers rule with phase missiles.

On the other hand I have come to the conclusion that illuminators suck early / mid-game, though they do have a place end game with the various beam upgrades. I have found every time I splurge early on illuminators I get my head handed to me. Much better to get drone hosts, guardians and stretch (painful as it is) for destras.

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September 1, 2010 12:47:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

As I've said several times already, illuminators were essentially god last version, and when the bug causing them to deal unreasonably high damage was fixed it was revealed to be a rather mediocre unit in reality.  I suspect next patch will probably buff them.

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September 1, 2010 12:47:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

yeah, Illuminators now need a bit of a buff, they got nerfed soooo hard due to that bug of theirs that when the bug was finally fixed they became worthless

lol Darvin posted the same time I did

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September 1, 2010 1:30:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

so, as advent its better to live on guardians and expensive carriers until i make it tier 5 military and destras? will this also work in multiplayer? what if they get flaks

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September 1, 2010 12:01:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

eah, Illuminators now need a bit of a buff, they got nerfed soooo hard due to that bug of theirs that when the bug was finally fixed they became worthless

lol Darvin posted the same time I did

They probably do need a buff now since Advent is now the least played race online.  But, are the developers even aware of this fact?  Do they even read these forums?  From what I can tell, they have no way of knowing about this and you're the only guy that's really posted about it so far.

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September 1, 2010 12:15:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Returning Armada is a "vestigial" tech.  It used to be a game-ending technology in the original Sins v1.05, but it was severely nerfed when Entrenchment was released.  Before the nerf, the phase stabilizers could be set to operate automatically, giving you FREE ships ever couple minutes.  So, if you were Vasari, you would makes ~15 phase stabilizers (can put 2 on an asteroid, 3 on a planet) and let the free ships just pour on in.  A Vasari player could thus quickly ramp up to having 2300 fleet supply worth of ships.

In multiplayer games, people might sometimes type out: "I have Returning Armada, this game is now over."

Vasari's problem was actually being able to get to the point where you could afford to research it and build all of those phase stabilizers.  If a team in a 3v3, 4v4, or 5v5 started out having a Vasari player in a safe eco spot, the guy in the eco spot would often rush to get it up.

Few people ever use it or pay attention to it since the ability was nerfed.

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September 1, 2010 12:18:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Agreed.

I had fun with original sins 1.07 and RA.

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September 1, 2010 1:58:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

it prolly could be slightly de-nerfed, but not much. if it was 2000 credits, and 400 crystal, it would prolly be ok.

What we cant have is that scuttling the ships gives you equal or more monies than it cost to generate them... which happens at 50% off... and getting 50% off ships is not bad.

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September 1, 2010 2:18:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Not to mention the Tier 1 Civilian tech the Vasari have that lets them reclaim 20% more resources from scuttled objects could make RA a money-MAKING technology.

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September 1, 2010 3:21:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

ya, i tested that, it brings the scuttle percentage to exactly 50%, which is why i said 50% in my pervious post.

NOW, mind you, if you research the 'cost and resource decrease' techs, your return is diminished.  Its too bad that (i dont think) abilities can be told to honor research.

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September 2, 2010 9:46:56 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What we cant have is that scuttling the ships gives you equal or more monies than it cost to generate them... which happens at 50% off... and getting 50% off ships is not bad.
Why the hell not, actually? You've paid your mother's worth in labs and research and phase stabs to get to the fookeen RA, why the hell must it not be profitable to scuttle those ships? Sure, it might be a little weird that you summon ships just to send them to a junkyard, but it's not gonna be game-breaking at all.

And RA could be made much more worthwhile if it only didn't require the phase tunneling research 2/2 to be done. And maybe brought one tier down. Once you get it running, RA is actually well worth it. Just check it out for yourself. Make sure you have 90 supply at hand and use RA, then write down how many ships of what type you received and count how much you'd have paid for them normally. The end result is that you win quite a lot.
You have to keep in mind though that you can always get an unlucky roll and get crap ships.

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September 2, 2010 10:38:44 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

RA never provides Overseers and Subverters, so its not like you can just build a bunch of Phase Stabilizers and use RA and expect a well rounded fleet (what you get instead is a highly brute-force fleet).

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September 2, 2010 11:02:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

bad types (Enforcer, Skirmisher).

I agree abot the second one up to a point, but first is just ridiculous, hard to take you seriously to be honest

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September 2, 2010 12:09:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well thats fine if you wanna buff it, but then I want my Insurgency not to be xp fodder. Or the Novalith upgraded to actually be useful.

If your gonna justify buffing RA just b/c it cost alot of labs and research then, why not start with already lackluster tech?

 

RA, while not as great as it once was is still great. You get ships at a reduced cost, you get them all at once. Having a few extra meaty ships join the battle at once is not a negative thing, even more so if your fighting an attrition battle. 

While you cant choose what ships you get you do know what types so you can use your frigate factories to build so you have a balanced fleet.

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September 2, 2010 12:27:25 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The price for RA definitely needs to be decreased.  I agree with N3rull that there's nothing wrong if players can scuttle the ships and profit from them since they had to buy all that crap.  The useless Level 7 research ability that stands between phase stabilizers and RA could also be eliminated.

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