I'd put that with the shield pact...it's a level 8 tech and needs the boost...

Beam pact already does this...it affects advent beam weapons, TEC beams (which is marginal), and Vasari pulse beams (which is also marginal)...however, I think it'd be safe to say that sentinels and Vasari fighters are likely not going to have PMs in this mod...pulse beams are a good candidate for their replacement...not only would this make the missile pact weaker, but it would make the beam pact stronger...maybe not the balance we are looking for, but it would be an improvement.....

Zombie, I'm confused...are you saying you have an envoy bonus that increases max allegiance?  How exactly did you do that?  As far as I know, ship abilities can only increase the spread of culture, as max allegiance can only be affected by research...I suppose the starbase induced reverence increases max allegiance in a way different than research...is that how you did it?

I'm kind of confused on what exactly you were saying...if I understand you correctly, the culture pact raises max allegiance by 10% while the cultural envoy bonus is the same (+50%)...if the culture pact raises max allegiance, that is awesome...if the envoy bonus is raising max allegiance, I'd highly recommend putting that bonus on the culture pact instead...

Unfortunately, I'm not aware of a research modifier that would do this. (http://code.google.com/p/soaseplugin/wiki/modifierType).

It does sound cool though. Maybe have the Kol's new passive ability extend the shield bypass resistence to nearby ships for fleet support and have the Iconus Guardian do the same. (Doesn't fit in this thread though).

Ok, time for an initial release:

Version 0.1 (here)

Release Notes:

MISSILE PACT: Adds Advent SPIRITBLADE (Psionic Surge)

SUPPLY PACT: ShipMaxSlots Decreased from 800 to 400

RESEARCH PACT: ResearchCost Increased from 10% to 15%

CULTURE PACT: Adds AllegianceFromCultureMaxPerc 10%

SHIELD PACT: ShieldPointsMaxAdjustment Increased from 15% to 25%, ShieldPointsRegenAdjustment Increased from 15% to 25%

Hearald Envoy: Cultural Assistance: Cooldown Decreased from 180 to 60, CultureSpreadRateForOwner Decreased from 50% to 25%, Adds CultureSpread 0.5 (Only on allied planets).

Hearald Envoy: Sacrifice: Adds CultureSpread 5.0 on destruction (Only on allied planets).

Voruntak Envoy: Mutual Threat: ResourceExtractionRate decreased from 2 to 1

Voruntak Envoy: Nanomedicen Outreach: Cooldown decreased from 180 to 60

So far I like all those changes...will look forward to trying it out!

Was just taking a look at some of the files...what changes were made to the Cultural assistance ability file and beam Pact?

Also, the missile pact currently increases the damage of TEC missiles and Advent psionic surges...but PMs get an increased chance to bypass shields (which is much more powerful)...perhaps changing this to a pure damage increase instead of shield bypass may be best...PMs are borderline overpowered as is...

I've been reviewing the Pact changes...haven't had a chance to test them, but here are some thoughts I've had...

First, I think the Missile Pact needs to affect phase missiles differently...currently it increases their chance to bypass shields by 15% (which is a huge boost)...I think that bonus should be changed to only increase their damage by 15%...

Second, I think the new changes to sacrifice may be too powerful...this is essentially the same cultural impact as a deliverance engine, yet it is done by a simple cruiser....now, understandably, the player does have to sacrifice a ship (and the time it takes to replace the envoy) and the "culture bomb" affect can't be used on enemy planets and the ability doesn't stack and it prioritizes old buffs (so it is harder to keep it going continuously without constant micro)...so, those are a lot of restrictions...but I really don't think a player should be able to continuously produce 5 culture (the same as 5 culture centers) on a planet by just building a simple envoy once every 150s...

You could use the envoy on one of your own planets (a border world) and essentially culture flip the enemy planet with little sacrifice at all...in fact, all it would require is the cost of the envoy cruiser once every 150s...since the ship is destroyed you wouldn't even constantly be needing the 12 fleet supply, and even if you did, that's a small price to pay...your enemy is losing a planet while you are doing virtually nothing...

I like the shock effect of this, so I think the culture bonus of 5 is good...but the duration of 150s, that seems a little too long...I can see this ability being abused, and I don't think any envoy bonus should be even close to that level...I'd recommend reducing the cooldown time to 90s...

So, to sum it up, I'd make the missile pact increase PM damage instead of % chance for shield bypass...I'd also reduce the duration of sacrifice from 150s to 90s...

Perhaps, except you can build the starbase anyway...a culture SB will force the enemy to scrap trade/factories for culture, but it by no means guarantees the planet will fall...this could, and if you're turtling (which Advent do very well) the cost would be irrelevant...

From an economic perspective though you have a point, it is certainly doable but it is more expensive than the culture upgrades...I think I'm going to have to see it really tested before I'm convinced either way....

I agree with Darvin, Culture is far to passive to have a real impact, this only helps to start the culture spread on an Ally's planets with additional Envoy's present. It's possible but not likely.

I disagree on decreasingthe culture allegiance bonus to 5%. Both TEC and Vasari have economic impacts in their Envoy's and Pacts which still outweigh what Advent provides with an Allegiance bonus in culture and Research cost reduction. The Advent Envoy still becomes a one trick pony with culture assistance mid to late game when culture becomes more prevalent.

Agreed, this needs to be the next change. It doesn't make sense for a Tech pact to increase Vasari shield bypass.

The siege pact I think is weak only because it's higher level than it should be...

The TEC envoy bonuses were pretty good (other than settlers) and their early pacts pretty solid...other than the siege pacts, I'd say their late game pacts (even with supply pact nerfed) are pretty strong...

Vasari's Mutual threat was too powerful while Advent pacts/envoy bonuses were rather weak all around...so, the Vasari and TEC have both been brought down a bit while the Advent have been brought up (hopefully to the same level)...I don't know if any more changes are necessary for the TEC since they were pretty much balanced before...

I could see arguments for a slight buff the siege pact and/or armor pact...did you have something in mind other than just increasing the bombing damage? 

Hmmm...I'm not sure how to implement either of those...making them tougher could be done in the same way Civilian Ship Safety Act buffs TEC trade ships...but that would require making a new ability, adding it to all 3 siege frigates...it might be possible...