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[MOD] Rebalanced Races: Rebellion V1.61 (with Starbase Mobilization as an Upgrade)

An attempt to balance the races and ships of Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion

By on September 13, 2011 2:33:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008
+89

About

A lot of people complain about the state of the balance of the game due to various reasons.  I am one of them.  For this reason, I made a mod that reworks or buffs the underpowered units of the game in an attempt to make them better and nerfs various overpowered units.

Not one of the things I have in here is something I believe is something that could not be in some form effectively integrated into the game.  I am also basing many of these things off the extensive discussions and tests myself and others have had on the subject.  I do not claim perfection, but I do claim a great deal of effort and I would hope improvement.

This mod is not about making cool new additions.  This mod is about one thing and one thing only: balance.  While some in the community feel that the game has intrinsic problems, I believe that without fundamental changes to the gameplay itself, this game can be balanced.  The objective of this mod is to balance as objectively as possible the races, factions, ships, and abilities of the game.

 

Download Structure

As this mod expands, if files are given in text format, it will result in slower loading times.  As a result all the files are given in binary for easy of loading for beginner users but advanced users can simply click on ConvertBinToText.bat to run ConvertData to look at the files in text format.  The needed files for this process are included in the GameInfo folder itself for your convenience and needn't be relocated to function.

 

Reuse

As this mod has expanded, there have unfortunately some changes that have had to be made which modify the entity.manifest, thereby prohibiting the use of it with any other mod that modifies that file.  If you truly wish to combine this mod with another, you will have to take the custom entries in the entity.manifest of one of the mods, add it to that of the other, and drop the files from one mod into those of the other.  In other words, if you already know how to do the above, it's a piece of cake.  If not, there are resources around the forums to help get you started on modding.

If you are releasing your own mod and wish to incorporate either Rebalanced Races: Rebellion or Rebalanced Races: Diplomacy...

  • If incorporated in its entirety, please cite the mod's name and myself in your credits and I would preferably like to receive a PM at some point prior to the integration as I might be interested in helping you.  
  • If not in whole and no modifications requiring entity.manifest changes are added to your mod, I'd ask to be in at minimum a "Special Thanks" category.  
  • If not in whole and a modification(s) requiring modification to the entity.manifest is added, I would like to ask that I be included in your credits list.
  • Artwork reuse is restricted due to the fact that it is the work of Axxo2 and not myself

 

Credits

Yarlen: Incoprorated Yarlen's hotfix mod for Rebellion 1.03.  Available individually here.

Axxo2: He did the artwork for the logo/loading screen

 

NOTE: fixed the startup crash of 1.6.  My apologies for the inconvenience.

 


 

Rebellion Changelog From Default (as of Rebellion 1.03)

-ADVENT-

Radiance Battleship: port and starboard laser batteries now deal anti-light damage and can target SC; also there are two port and starboard bank targets.  This allows the Radiance to better deal with bombers and corvettes in rush situations.

Deliverance Engine: the DE now captures all culture centers at the target planet, assisting the primary effect of dominating culture.  Depending on user preference, the centers could either be left up to torment the previous owner or scuttled for resources for the user.  See this thread for details.

Guidance: AM changed effect from 10%/20%/30%/40% on ability cooldowns to the same effect on both ability and bombing cooldowns.  This is likely a temporary change until something better comes along or I make this do something else entirely.

Clairvoyance: spawns culture at a power of 0.0/0.8/1.6/2.4 at the target planet, allowing players to increase their odds of having an advantage at a planet when attacking and can be used to cement a cultural advantage in culturally contested wells.  This can also be used early on to culture-bomb your opponents as an Advent Loyalist, handicapping their economy and thus military.

Detonate Antimatter: damage rate buffed from 12/14.9/17.8/20.7 to 16/21/28/35.  For some unknown reason, DAM was nerfed by Starclad between Diplomacy and Rebellion, so I buffed largely to undo this unknown nerf.

Vengeance: The target ship now deals 8%/16%/24%/32% bonus damage for the duration.  This does apply to titans.

DominationDue to various mechanics added in Rebellion that outshine Domination, it has been buffed to have a guaranteed conversion of the target frigate and will also convert 2/3 other nearby frigates if fleet supply for them is available.

Animosity: This ability now synergizes with Ruthlessness for a late-game synergy between underused units.  When the Radiance is within the radius of Ruthlessness, Animosity is amplified to deal a DoT of 8/12/16/20 DPS to afflicted units.  Though this may seem excessive when paired with Malice, consider that at the same point in the game, you will likely have a Coronata or Eradica, both of which have very high damage abilities that work well with malice.  In addition, Animosity now also increases damage dealt to afflicted units by 2%/4%/6%/8%.  Fixed a longstanding bug regarding buff application.

Ruthlessness: now applies a buff to friendly capitals, causing them to deal 8% bonus damage.

Telekinetic Push: Increased range from 4200 to 4200/4700/5200/5700 to help deal with alpha-strike damage as pointed out by the MP community.

Martyrdom: damage increased from 250 to 650 and now stacks infinitely

Unity Mass: base damage reduced from 1000/1500/2000/2500 to 900/1300/1700/2100 and modified to remove 150+2.4/2.6/2.8/3.0 AM per ally nearby.  Also fixed an bug from RR:R 1.3

Fury of the Unity: changed from 10% to 4.5%/9%/13.5% and also added 1%/2%/3% mitigation in culture and increases culture spread rate by 5%/10%/15%

Culture Research: now properly blocks Phase Missiles via Yarlen's mod

 

-TEC-

Kol Battleship: autocannons now deal anti-light damage and can target strike craft

Gauss Rail Gun: AM cost increased to 65/70/75/80 from 50/55/60/65, removed speed debuff, added passive regeneration disable, now passes through targets, and changed duration to 20/35/50/65 seconds from 10/10/10/10

Adaptive Forcefield:  made passive and nerfed to 3%/11%/19%/27% from 15%/23%/32%/40%; fixed a graphical bug from RR:R 1.3

Incendiary Shells: now stacks 2 times instead of 3 and reduces shield regeneration/healing to the afflicted target by 10%/15%/20%/25%

Radiation Bomb: area of effect increased from 1200 at all levels to 1200/1500/1800/2100 and DPS increased from 7/13/18/24 to 8/14/20/26, allowing the Marza to better combat corvette spam

Demolition Team: AM cost increased from 85 at all levels to 105/100/95/90.

Salvage Operations: when target is not boarded, hull absorbed reduced from 10%/15%/20%/25% to 4%/10%/16.5%/25%; boarded hull absorption is unchanged.

Elite Crews: prevents target ship from being disabled from non-ultimate disables

Hardened Defenses: moved to Tier III

Starbase Compartmentalization: moved to Tier V

 

-VASARI-

Kortul Devastator: pulse beams now deal anti-light damage and can target strike craft

Kultorask: forward PM damage increased from 150 per volley to 170

Wave Researchables: now affect the damage output of Pulse Waves

Phase Missile Swarm: increased target count from 4/7/11/14 to 6/8/11/14, leading to more use at lower levels, encouraging players to invest the initial point.

Phase Out Hull: Removed the heal/damage functionality; on friendly units does not disable regen or sublight movement and also increases linear velocity by 300%/455.3%/577.6%/600% and linear acceleration by 550%/766.7%/983.3%/1100%.  Also decreases angular thrust by 25%/45.1%/63%/85.3%.  When used on friendly units, buffed from 6/8/10/12 seconds to 8/10/12/14.  Unchanged duration on enemy units.

Subversion: When used against an enemy planet, now applies buff to neighboring enemy planets as well

Dissever: now applies to capitals, titans, and starbases

Desperation: stacking count changed from 15 to 60, duration changed from 10 at all levels to 10/12/14/16, and cooldown effect reduced to 1%/1.5%/2%/2.5% from 1%/2%/3%/4%, giving the Vorastra better performance in larger battles.  Applies AoE buffs via Phase Missiles and Waves due to the weapon type change of the Vorastra in Rebellion 1.03

Micro Phase Jump: after completion of the jump now increases the Vorastra's rotational thrust by 33%/55.3%/77.6%/100%

Microphasing Aura: buffed from a 20%/30%/30%/35% chance per 4/4/3/3 seconds to a 20%/30%/30%/35% chance per 3/3/2/2 seconds

Regenerative Hulls: Increased regen from 50%/100% to 75%/150% and also gives 2 armor points per level

Energetic Pulse Charging Researchable: 
 now properly buffs damage of Pulse Guns, Pulse Beams, and Pulse Waves

Armor Restoration: moved to empire tree, no longer requires other hull upgrades, requires all trade upgrades, and requires Enemy Relations.

Shared Shield Technology: moved from T6 to T8 and now requires Enemy Relations

Stabilize Phase Space: this ability now has 2 levels with the second level installing a phase drive on the Orkulus

Starbase Mobilization: now requires both levels of Enhanced Tunneling and level 2 Stabilize Phase Space

AbilityPhaseStarbaseSameOrbitbodyDebuff: Orkies around the same star will no longer disable each other.

Jump Destabilization: ships will no longer take damage leaving a gravity well through which an Orky has passed.  Via Yarlen mod.  Also due to the above changes, it now fills the slot ability4 on the Orky, resulting in the player being unable to see it.  It is still applied as normal however.

 

Changelog From Previous Version of RR:R (Version 1.5)

  • Removed Guidance's AM usage decrease and turned it into a support/bombing ability.  This will likely either be turned into a dedicated bombing ability or support ability.  I am currently undecided.
  • Buff Clairvoyance from what it has actually been (the .6 at level 1 was a typo that I kept forgetting to fix even though it was always 0.0 in the files themselves)
  • Fixed a bug with RR:R's Animosity.
  • Martyrdom now stacks infinitely (fixes some quirkiness with the game itself and how it process this ability)
  • Added mitigation and spread rate increases to Fury of the Unity.
  • Buffed duration of the Kol's regen disable to encourage the initial point
  • Inverted buff to Phase Out Hull when used on friendlies regarding angular thrust
  • Removed AbilityPhaseStarbaseSameOrbitbodyDebuff's primary functionality.
  • Reorganized the positions of the Orkies abilities on UI
  • Starbase Mobilization is now the result of a second level of Stabilize Phase Space.
  • Custom loading screen by Axxo2
Explanation of RR:R V1.61 Changelog

I'm still at a loss for Guidance in its current implementation.  Right now I'm leaning towards either what Zombie is doing (effectively a remote version of Overcharge for friendly ships) but this would take a great amount of time or a bombing toggle that would slowly drain AM from the Revelation while simultaneously decreasing the max health of the planet.  Upon de-toggling, the planet's maximum health would slowly regenerate.  The second is easier but the first could be better.  I'm open to suggestions.

Clairvoyance's effect was a longstanding typo.  It was in fact 0.0/0.6/1.2/1.8 but I had mistakenly posted it as starting at 0.6 but I kept forgetting to fix that.  I have now buffed it to give it more of an effect later in the game and to encourage players (particularly as AL) to start with the Revelation for the purpose of culture-bombing.

My redesign of Animosity had a bug which resulted in it sometimes not being applied correctly.  This has been fixed.

Martyrdom now stacks infinitely.  You see, there seems to be some weirdness with buff tick rates in the engine which appear to happen perhaps every half second.  This could previously only stack once, meaning if you had multiple scouts suicide at the same time, only one would actually damage the target.

Fury of the Unity now increases combat effectiveness via mitigation and increases culture spread rate since it is in the civilian tree.

10 seconds is not nearly enough time for regen disable to have an effect.  As such, the time was increased.

POH's buff last time around was not quite as it should have been.  I would rather this effectively allow the ship to travel through phase space, but as ships appear not to be able to change heading once in phase space, I reduced their ability to turn.  Make sure to get the correct heading before using this ability, else your ship will waste the buff on an exorbitantly large turn radius which will put you farther away from your destination in many cases.

AbilityPhaseStarbaseSameOrbitbodyDebuff is a stupid ability that was replaced with hard-coded limits.  This was the ability that caused multiple Orkies to disable each other.  Since the jump limitations, this is unneeded and effectively dead, buggy code.  It has been removed from the Orky.  I still contain it in the file because of string issues associated with Starbase Mobilization the research.  Also, the reason this ability doesn't have an in-game name is because this was the Orky's ability4 or in other words, the one that is hidden behind the upgrade management button.  Thus the devs never felt like giving it a real name.

Due to the removal of the above and changing SM to something that must be done via Stabilize Phase Space, I was forced to reorganize the UI slightly.  Jump Destabilization's effect in-game is unchanged.  That said, you will no longer see it because of what I had to do to get SM to work as an upgrade.  My apologies as this is something I try to avoid, but there was no way around it.

The custom loading screen IMO looks awesome and there will also eventually be a main menu change to go along with it.

Fixed a bug from 1.6 that would cause crashses on startup.

 

 

Rebellion Downloads

Version 1.0

Version 1.1

Version 1.2

Version 1.3

Version 1.4

Version 1.5

Version 1.6

Future Plans: Looking into Guidance further

 


 

Diplomacy Changelog From Default

-ADVENT-

Perseverance: Omnidirectional, not channeled, reduced AM cost to 30, and allowed to stack in a limited way with the first to apply a buff yielding 25 HPS, all following that add another 5 HPS.

Suppression: reduced it's cooldown time to make it the default ability during battle of the Domina.  The order ideally will be that the Domina casts Pers, then spends the next 30 seconds channeling Suppression before casting Pers again.  Rinse and repeat.

Guidance: Increased ability cooldown from 25/25/25 to 25/30/35

Clairvoyance: spawns culture from the target at .75 culture center per level

Animosity: deals 7/14/21 DPS to those ships that are affected

Detonate AM: leaks AM into the space around the target, dealing 5.5 DPS to SC and reducing their accuracy slightly

Adjudicators: do better against single targets (and as such have been increased in cost slightly) through the addition of the FixedLevel0 ability, Sentence, which deals 200 damage to the target

Shield Projection: now endows the recipients with PM resistance of 15%

Reverie: can now be used defensively, and when used against friendly ships, it allows them to have passive regeneration as well as 2/3.5/5 SPS, 1/2/3 HPS, and 1/1.2/1.4 AMPS

Malice: target cap upped from 8/16/24 to 15/30/45 and propagation increased from 30%/30%/30% to 15%/30%/45% (this will likely be nerfed in 1.1)

Vengeance: buffed from reflecting 65%/130%/200% to 85%/170%/255% due to the fact that it has to go through mitigation twice

Ruthelessness: deals a non-stacking 3 DPS effect in addition to a .9 DPS infinite stacking DoT

Martyrdom:  damage increased from 250 to 650

 

-TEC-

Gauss Rail Gun: damage increased from 400/725/1050 to 550/1100/1650 and the speed detriment has been replaced with a shield mitigation reduction of 8%/12%/16%

Adaptive Forcefield: now passive, due to the fact that it does nothing to help the fleet at large and the Kol is the biggest AM hog in the game

Incendiary Shells: increased from 3/4.5/6 DPS to 4/5.5/7 DPS

Radiation Bomb: AoE increased from 1200/1200/1200 to 1200/1500/1700, damage increased to 175/350/425 and DoT length changed to 4/5/6 from 5/5/5

Targeting Uplink: all ships influenced by TU now apply a buff to their targets that increases damage to that target by .15%/.30%/.45% for 3/3.5/4 seconds; the buff stacks infinitely

Missile Barrage: changed wave interval from 1.25 seconds to 1.05 seconds

Embolden: increased shield regen from 2.5 SPS to 7.5 SPS; Embolden now also results in a linear speed increase of 15% and acceleration of 35%

Shield Restore: now temporarily increases PM resistance by 8%/16%/24% for 20 seconds

 

-VASARI-

Phase Missile Swarm: deals 100/150/200 damage to hull and 300/266/233 damage to shields per target to better represent Phase Missiles

Power Surge: now also increases DamageAsDamageDealer by 25%/50%/75%

Phase Out Hull: deals 200/300/400 shield damage to both friendly and allied targets, but allied targets also get a hull repair of 200/300/400

Gravity Bomb: deals 200/300/400 damage to the target in addition to current effects

Nano Disassembler: DPS increased from 25/25/25 to 25/32.5/40 but reduced it's duration from 25/35/45 to 25/30/35

Subversion: in addition to current buffs, now deals 200/300/400 to all enemy structures in the gravity well every 45/40/35 seconds

Pinpoint Targeting: now increases damage dealt in bombing by 5%/10%/15% as well as increasing bombing range

 

Changelog From Previous Version (1.2)

Radiation Bomb: further buffed

 

 

Diplomacy Downloads

Version 1.0

Version 1.1

Version 1.2

Version 1.3

 

Future Plans: Rebalanced Races: Diplomacy has been discontinued due to Rebellion's release


 

Disclaimer and Conclusion

I'm by no means saying that this new iteration is balanced, but I think it has many components which if integrated into the game would help matters significantly.  This is the Rebalanced Races Mod, not the Balanced Races Mod.  If you have suggestions regarding the balance of those above or otherwise included in the mod, feel free to respond in the comments.

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May 21, 2012 5:51:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting jartigerx,
No one is forcing you to play this mod.  If you would rather play Beta, play Beta.  No reason to get your panties in a twist over someone trying to make the game seem better, even if you disagree with the outcome of the mod. 

 

And for the record, im not playing this mod, or even Rebellion (yes I own it) at this point.  Sacrifice of Angels for Diplomacy ftw.

Honestly, for Starclad's sake, no one should be maining mods in Trinity or earlier if they have Rebellion.

Until June 10th, this mod should only be used as testing grounds.  Even I don't have it on by default.

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May 21, 2012 6:40:55 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Semaz, by this point I'm convinced you are just trolling us modders with your "Don't mod rebellion" tirades....

SD is good at making cool games, but they are notorious for their poor gameplay balancing...why shouldn't people try and make balance mods?  Anyway, balance mods have been known to catch the eye of the devs and so it's important that such mods are vetted instead of simply being disdained...

Anyway, I have a very different vision for "balancing" sins (and I use that term loosely) but here are some thoughts of mine you may be interested in:

  • Martyrdom - until you remove the stacking limit on this ability, it is broken (if 1000 seekers use martyrdom at the same time, only the damage from a handful will register due to stacking limits)...I'd suggest removing this first before you up the damage...also, you may want to change the hull damage requirement that trips the autocast...if done right you can get this ability to work with minimal micro, a single click and all the seekers suicide on a target of your choice...
  • Embolden - personally I find this ability better as an AoE instead of trying to buff the benefits it gives to one ship...
  • I have a general philosophy that each cap ability needs to scale well into the late game, and simply buffing an ability does not necessarily accomplish this goal...a notorious example of this is incendiary shells, which does not scale at all and is in desperate need of a secondary debuff instead of just a general increase in DPS (I personally like an armor debuff but to each his own)...
  • I'm not sure if Rebellion already did this, but you may want to consider changing the AI use times for ultimate abilities to things like "OnlyInCombat" instead of "OnlyWhenEnemyFleetWillPrevail" (or whatever it is)...this will encourage the AI to use those abilities....

If I think of something else I'll let you know but I don't want to give suggestions that are fundamentally different from your approach...

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May 21, 2012 8:44:43 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/419711/page/2/#3107334

I'm more froggy than trolly.

well, if you want to promote someone modding and releasing during beta so that people don't give full attention to the beta stardock is putting out, I guess I'll be happy to be distanced from 'you' modders then.

 

 

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May 21, 2012 11:53:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SemazRalan,
well, if you want to promote someone modding and releasing during beta so that people don't give full attention to the beta stardock is putting out, I guess I'll be happy to be distanced from 'you' modders then. 

As before, the mod is intended to test various things that people have suggested.  Not everyone has the ability to stick in things themselves to test.  The intent is for people to be able to try (under controlled circumstances) ideas that have been suggested in general.  If someone discovers something becomes OP in the process of testing, that's something to report so that in the discussion, people know not to continue down that path, or if they do, something else should change.

This in effect was already stated in the OP if you'd have actually read it through.  Because apparently people are incapable of finishing the post, I have placed a similar message at the top of the OP.

Quoting Seleuceia,
Semaz, by this point I'm convinced you are just trolling us modders with your "Don't mod rebellion" tirades....

SD is good at making cool games, but they are notorious for their poor gameplay balancing...why shouldn't people try and make balance mods?  Anyway, balance mods have been known to catch the eye of the devs and so it's important that such mods are vetted instead of simply being disdained...

Anyway, I have a very different vision for "balancing" sins (and I use that term loosely) but here are some thoughts of mine you may be interested in:


Martyrdom - until you remove the stacking limit on this ability, it is broken (if 1000 seekers use martyrdom at the same time, only the damage from a handful will register due to stacking limits)...I'd suggest removing this first before you up the damage...also, you may want to change the hull damage requirement that trips the autocast...if done right you can get this ability to work with minimal micro, a single click and all the seekers suicide on a target of your choice...
Embolden - personally I find this ability better as an AoE instead of trying to buff the benefits it gives to one ship...
I have a general philosophy that each cap ability needs to scale well into the late game, and simply buffing an ability does not necessarily accomplish this goal...a notorious example of this is incendiary shells, which does not scale at all and is in desperate need of a secondary debuff instead of just a general increase in DPS (I personally like an armor debuff but to each his own)...
I'm not sure if Rebellion already did this, but you may want to consider changing the AI use times for ultimate abilities to things like "OnlyInCombat" instead of "OnlyWhenEnemyFleetWillPrevail" (or whatever it is)...this will encourage the AI to use those abilities....

If I think of something else I'll let you know but I don't want to give suggestions that are fundamentally different from your approach...

It hadn't even occurred to me that Martyrdom had a stacking cap.  If that's the case, then it should be removed, or at least increased.  Removal might be overly good, but it would require testing.  I'll play around with it over the next few days and if things are positive, I may stick it into RR.

Embolden has always been kinda awkward.  An AoE around it might be the best way to go.

I've not been sure how to do Incendiary Shells either.  I'd make an armor debuff, but that means making it sensitive to shields or else it wouldn't make sense and I really don't like doing that.  I did that for Grey Goo and it was a pain.

I'm not really concerning myself with the AI's.

Also, feel free to suggest anything that comes to mind.  If it's radically different, I could just release alternative branches. Since this is a beta, I really do want this to be a test-bed for various balance changes/ideas.  Once it exits beta, of course, I'd merge back to a single thread, but for now, multiple branches is fine by me.

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May 22, 2012 12:41:43 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
I've not been sure how to do Incendiary Shells either. I'd make an armor debuff, but that means making it sensitive to shields or else it wouldn't make sense and I really don't like doing that. I did that for Grey Goo and it was a pain.

Here are my thoughts on incendiary shells as it is currently implemented:

  • It does not scale late game
  • Because a single marza with incendiary shells can stack with itself, multiple instances of the ability are useless
  • The ability as a whole is just uninteresting...it does damage, that's its...hell, its not even an AoE or something really powerful (like snipe)....it just does plain DPS...

To make it scale, I made it debuff armor slightly (maybe .5 per level or so?  Haven't really thought about redoing these things for 4 ability levels)...

To encourage multiple usage (or at least make multiple instances useful) I disabled the spawner's ability to stack with itself (so a stacking limit of 3 could only be fully utilized if you had 3 marzas)...

Additionally, I made it do only hull damage (obviously with a smaller DPS) instead of normal damage...in conjuction with the armor debuff, I felt this was enough to make the ability scale well and be interesting...

As for martyrdom...something I have been toying around with is completely redoing martyrdom and timed explosives...both abilities could be similar (they do damage to a structure and disable it for, say, a minute or two), with timed charges harder to use while martydrom requires the sacrifice of your scout...in essence, similar to the philosophical and gameplay differences between the arcova's probes and the seeker's suiciding probe...

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May 22, 2012 1:08:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

At the same time though, it bugs me to make a physical ability affect armor while the shields are still up.  Nano doesn't matter since it's supposed to ignore shields.  Fracture's telekinesis, so that doesn't bother me either.  Incendiary rounds are coming from the ordinary shots of the Marza, meaning that as long as the shield is still up, there should be no reason for it to affect the hull or armor.

Because there is only something for shields being up, you have to make a buff NOT gate which means that you have to wait due to update lag.  As a result, you'll have to wait a bit before you even get the chance to apply the buff to the target.  With Grey Goo, this wasn't a problem as it was an infection, so a dormancy stage made sense.  With Incendiary Shells, it's not so logical..

Like I said, I could do it, but I'd not like to.

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May 25, 2012 2:51:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
At the same time though, it bugs me to make a physical ability affect armor while the shields are still up.

Here is an idea to make it scale, have it effect Shield Mitigation instead of armor. 1 pt of Armor equals roughly 4% Shield Mitigation in terms of damage reduction. Then you don't have to worry about the lore of a regular ammunition type being able to magically ignore shields. So as the Marza attacks various targets it is not only causing residual damage but also affecting the overall integrity of the enemy fleet. This also goes well with the Marza being one of TEC's few AOE possessing ships. The Ability wouldn't be AOE per say but since it is usually targeting several ships at a time the effect will spread. So I would propose specifics as follows:

Damage taken/sec: 3-->4.5-->6.0-->8.0

Mitigation Reduction: 1.5%-->2.5%-->3.5%-->5%

Duration: 12-->14-->16-->20

I gave a boost to the 4th level to incentivize the benefit of specializing the Marza to that final extreme. 

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May 25, 2012 3:07:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

First off, Mitigation and Armor are only comparable at low levels.  Because of the way armor works hull*(1+0.5*armor), it doesn't behave the same way as mitigation.  Thus, your attempt at conversion isn't really correct.

On top of that, the Marza is the only capital ship in the game that doesn't fire on more than one ship at a time.  All it's guns are forward facing and it only has one bank target, so it would only affect the focus fired ship, not overall fleet integrity as you're suggesting.

On top of that, when you compare mitigation between multiple races, you get very different results.  While 5% mitigation is only a 14% increase in damage to a level 1 TEC or Vasari capital, that same 5% to a maxed out Coronata is a 42% increase in damage taken.  To achieve the same sort of damage increase, you'd have to remove about 9 points of armor.

Of course, you can't consider this a constant ratio of 5:9.  Back to the TEC level 1, you'd remove about three points of armor.  Clearly 5:3 and 5:9 are too different.

With an armor debuff, you always know exactly how much damage received is going to be increased.  Mitigation is not so.

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May 25, 2012 3:54:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hmmmmm if what you say is true than the Wiki has led me greatly astray on Both Armor description and Marza. I was given to understand Armor worked similarly to Mitigation in that it was simply a direct % based reduction in damage. Also the Wiki clearly states that the existence of side pulse lasers and autocannons.

 

Perhaps then the Incendiary should have a different debuff besides shield mitigation or armor. Perhaps the residual heat of the burning incendiaries causes increased weapon cool-down from ships that are hit?

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May 25, 2012 4:38:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting gamerlamb,
On top of that, the Marza is the only capital ship in the game that doesn't fire on more than one ship at a time. All it's guns are forward facing and it only has one bank target, so it would only affect the focus fired ship, not overall fleet integrity as you're suggesting.

Quoting gamerlamb,
Also the Wiki clearly states that the existence of side pulse lasers and autocannons.

I think the relevant factor here is that abilities tied to "OnWeaponFired" are triggered by a class of weapons firing (like lasters, or autocannon)...so even if the marza has 3 weapons, if only has one weapon of class A and that class triggers the ability, then only one ship is getting affected by that ability...

That being said, you can add as many weapon classes as you want to the ability, but only missiles and autocannon are flagged by incendiary shells...the marza has one missile weapon (front) and two autocannons (front and right)...that results in two targets being hit by incendiary shells (one in front and one to the right)...

 

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May 25, 2012 4:43:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Anyway there are a lot of things that magically get through shields....obviously phase missiles, but also boarding parties, large payloads (like a detonate antimatter or meson bolt which affects armor as well)...

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May 25, 2012 4:43:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ah, you were correct about the Marza having side guns.  Lasers on one side and Autocannons on the other.

That said, mitigation and armor do not work the same way.  True, both reduce incoming damage, but mitigation is a straight percentage of damage negated whereas armor isn't.

You see, as you increase armor, the "virtual hull" increase isn't linear.  It's logarithmic IIRC (though it might be square root).  That said, the increase from the previous armor point is linear.  Compared to mitigation, the amount of damage negated as you increase is linear and the amount increased from one percentage point to the next is actually asymptotic.

Put another way, you can have 100 armor.  Incoming damage will only be at about 16.7% of what it is by default.  Compare that with 100% mitigation.  Incoming damage will be completely and totally negated.  Another 100% mitigation doesn't even make sense whereas another hundred armor is possible and would result in incoming damage being 9%.  Even at 1000 armor, you're still taking 2% of incoming damage.

 

EDIT due to ninja:

Presumably large payloads can get through because the shields are designed for high velocity/temperature shots.  Boarding parties probably disguise themselves as friendly SC to get through and Detonate AM is probably a telekinetic bolt or something that doesn't care about shields.  Mesons are things like electrons (which would make sense to make it through a shield) and neutrinos (which can go through a light-year of lead and miss every atom, so of course they'd miss a shield).

The things that get through have justifications.  Flaming shards of metal isn't something that has a justification.

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June 17, 2012 2:11:19 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Version 1.2 for Rebellion released.  Includes reworking of Unity Mass, removed buff to Unity Mass (as the devs buffed it more than I did lol), nerf to Nano Leech, and a nerf to Shipboard Labs.

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June 21, 2012 6:42:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Version 1.3 for RR:R released.  Includes significant work on the research added in Rebellion.

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June 22, 2012 11:53:16 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the overall direction of this mod.

 

The only change I'm not enjoying tremendously is the shipboard labs change, 4 ranks to get .8 is rather rough, and i'm not even the kind of person who bumrush stripped my homeworld like some did.

 

I understand why it had to be done, just don't like it

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June 22, 2012 5:43:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I always like when an independent, unpaid mod does a better and faster job than paid devs. And listens to the community. Bravo to you volt, we need to clone a few of you and take over stardock.

One suggestion- a possible buff for the Kol, seeing as its an AM pit, possibly make that: 1 (if it stays passive) theres a chance that 100% of the negated damage becomes (i.e. if a laser shot that does 10 damage is reduced by say, 20%, 100% of that 20% becomes AM.) or 2) if it becomes an ability again, ALL negated damage becomes AM for the duration.

Just thoughts anyway.

 

And as ive been hearing it, the TEC defenders need a buff. If thats correct, a possible buff would be to include two tier 5/6 ish techs, one adding shields to all orbital structures (civilian and tactical) and the other giving the tactical structures engines. Not fast ones, but not snails pace.  

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June 22, 2012 6:50:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DaxxTrias,
I like the overall direction of this mod.

The only change I'm not enjoying tremendously is the shipboard labs change, 4 ranks to get .8 is rather rough, and i'm not even the kind of person who bumrush stripped my homeworld like some did.

I understand why it had to be done, just don't like it

Well, the reason for that is that it requires four capitals to get the remaining three upgrades, significantly increasing the cost.  I know it seems excessive, but you only need ten capitals to achieve 8 labs which for a VL is entirely possible and doesn't hurt them if going mobile.  It just nerfs strip-rushing which was the intent.

I get where you're coming from, but as you said, it kind of had to be done.

 

Quoting Mick6662,
I always like when an independent, unpaid mod does a better and faster job than paid devs. And listens to the community. Bravo to you volt, we need to clone a few of you and take over stardock.

One suggestion- a possible buff for the Kol, seeing as its an AM pit, possibly make that: 1 (if it stays passive) theres a chance that 100% of the negated damage becomes (i.e. if a laser shot that does 10 damage is reduced by say, 20%, 100% of that 20% becomes AM.) or 2) if it becomes an ability again, ALL negated damage becomes AM for the duration.

Just thoughts anyway.

And as ive been hearing it, the TEC defenders need a buff. If thats correct, a possible buff would be to include two tier 5/6 ish techs, one adding shields to all orbital structures (civilian and tactical) and the other giving the tactical structures engines. Not fast ones, but not snails pace.  

Thanks for the compliment.  That said, many of the changes the devs refuse to implement that I have are due to the fact that their incomes do ride on it, so drastic changes could drive away players which is obviously bad for business.  They only hear from a small percentage of us on the forums as the vast majority of SP players never come on the forums to voice their opinions so drastic changes could drive away these players.  My livelihood isn't bound to this game so I'm free to make such changes.

The Kol is no longer an AM hog due to AFF being passive, plus it received an additional buff when I changed it's autocannons to anti-light damage as that allows it to go through militia easier.  Honestly, I don't think it needs any more buffs.

The TEC Loyalists are rather weak.  The ideal change if you ask me would be to change Novalith Deregulation from a cost reduction to something that would increase the superweapon cap by 1.  Since that change isn't possible by modifying data files, the only other option would be to go into the global constants file and increase the superweapon cap by 1.  While this would technically buff all races, no race benefits from superweapon batteries nearly as much as the TL.  I've held off on this change however because of the outcry from the SP community that can't counter Novaliths effectively.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't care, but the fact is, I don't want people to not play the mod because they see a buff to the Novalith.  As a result, I've held off on it.  Technically speaking, it would be better for skilled players, but people very seldom play mods online, so I have to consider the people that are playing my mod.

As for your ideas, the Advent already have shields around their structures via an ability on their hangars.  Mitigation is a very powerful buff to a unit indeed and one so strong that I'm really hesitant to add it.  Also, it isn't possible to put engines on tactical structures through a mod.

I am trying to think of something though that would help them a bit.  I just haven't come up with anything I'm satisfied with yet.

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June 22, 2012 7:15:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

volt, a couple of ideas that might help the TL would be

1 a range increase (they know their gw better so can spot  the enemy ships further away) (my preference)

2 a rate of fire increase (better cooling for the weapons)

3 a damage per shot increase (bigger weapons)

all three are able to be done in buffs AND the ship/structure entities and all three can fit within their lore.

harpo

 

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June 22, 2012 7:31:45 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,

Thanks for the compliment.  That said, many of the changes the devs refuse to implement that I have are due to the fact that their incomes do ride on it, so drastic changes could drive away players which is obviously bad for business.  They only hear from a small percentage of us on the forums as the vast majority of SP players never come on the forums to voice their opinions so drastic changes could drive away these players.  My livelihood isn't bound to this game so I'm free to make such changes.

The Kol is no longer an AM hog due to AFF being passive, plus it received an additional buff when I changed it's autocannons to anti-light damage as that allows it to go through militia easier.  Honestly, I don't think it needs any more buffs.

The TEC Loyalists are rather weak.  The ideal change if you ask me would be to change Novalith Deregulation from a cost reduction to something that would increase the superweapon cap by 1.  Since that change isn't possible by modifying data files, the only other option would be to go into the global constants file and increase the superweapon cap by 1.  While this would technically buff all races, no race benefits from superweapon batteries nearly as much as the TL.  I've held off on this change however because of the outcry from the SP community that can't counter Novaliths effectively.

Ordinarily, I wouldn't care, but the fact is, I don't want people to not play the mod because they see a buff to the Novalith.  As a result, I've held off on it.  Technically speaking, it would be better for skilled players, but people very seldom play mods online, so I have to consider the people that are playing my mod.

As for your ideas, the Advent already have shields around their structures via an ability on their hangars.  Mitigation is a very powerful buff to a unit indeed and one so strong that I'm really hesitant to add it.  Also, it isn't possible to put engines on tactical structures through a mod.

I am trying to think of something though that would help them a bit.  I just haven't come up with anything I'm satisfied with yet.

See, im not a modder and so i dont know what can/cant be done. But Harpo's ideas seem pretty good, but i think they need another stand out ability...

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June 22, 2012 8:53:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Honestly, I'm kind of leaning towards some sort of trade boost to help them win a war of attrition rather than of combat.

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June 23, 2012 2:38:17 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Would it be possible to add in some incentives for Vasari Loyalists to go fully mobile? Like, if you had no planets, a set of buffs kick in.

see http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/427373 for the original idea (not mine)

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June 23, 2012 3:08:08 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Is it possible?  Yes.  Would it take hundreds of man-hours to do?  Yes.  You see, to do what you're suggesting, it would take a massive amount of effort to do it.  Certainly possible, but there's no way I'm doing something that complicated when the devs might implement it into the game code itself with just a couple lines of code.

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June 23, 2012 4:46:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Some question, if I don't agree some of your modifications, can I bypass it by just ignore that file?

Sorry to be noob, I have no experience of modding...

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June 23, 2012 6:05:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
Is it possible?  Yes.  Would it take hundreds of man-hours to do?  Yes.  You see, to do what you're suggesting, it would take a massive amount of effort to do it.  Certainly possible, but there's no way I'm doing something that complicated when the devs might implement it into the game code itself with just a couple lines of code.

Eek, had no idea it needed so much work...

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