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Sins graphical engine update

By on November 21, 2011 8:20:51 PM from JoeUser Forums JoeUser Forums

Frogboy

Join Date 03/2001
+1120

One of the changes to Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion is a significant update of the graphics system. This is done so that Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion remains state of the art visually.

Example:

 

BEFORE:

image

 

and…

 

AFTER:

image

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November 21, 2011 8:27:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

HOLY CRAP, IT LOOKS GOOD!

Particle effects had better match in quality.

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November 21, 2011 9:07:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Will the graphic change done only with new shader code or there will be some change in the .mesh and texture too...

Ask about it because i remember that when you have switch the cl alpha with the da red for a patch, it was like hell for a lot of modders...

If similar change are made for rebellion, i can be a good idea to inform us, so we can already begin work on changing our textures...

Rebellion mean certainly a forge tool version 4... this time, don't forget to update the tutorial .pdf ... was not updated with forge tools 3 and info about the texture was not more good...

As from your picture, i see that the lightning system is modified... light come somehow from the left side... and the central big ship cast some shadow on the nose of the top right ship... seem that the da red ( specular ) will finaly render like it need to be render...

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November 21, 2011 10:49:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Where is some TEC lovin. I want to see

THE KOL!

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November 21, 2011 11:01:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I wanna TITAN 

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November 21, 2011 11:19:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting KrdaxDrkrun,
HOLY CRAP, IT LOOKS GOOD!

I literally said the exact same thing while looking at the second picture.

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November 21, 2011 11:28:34 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

BEHOLD the power of poorly done Blinn Phong lighting with normal maps!

This is so state of the art I think I'm going to put on some flannel, go fire up the original UT and listen to some quad city DJ's.

It's great to see you guys getting jiggy with the graphics card... I can't wait to see whats next!

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November 21, 2011 11:54:36 PM from Demigod Forums Demigod Forums

I dig it.  I do wish a bit more went into changing the backgrounds though.  You can only see minor, if any, differences there.  I love the look of space in sins and I guess its ok if only the ships are getting more "pretty," but I'd love to see some cool new things in space.  Mayhaps even completely unique eye candy on X type of planet or w/e (even if its totally random).  Anyway, I do like how that ship looks at the very least.

 

 

FROGGY - any chance we could get like a super short video showing one of the new gigantic ships in battle?  To me, that would be an excellent tease.  Hell, you could even make it look OP by showing it tearing through a cap ship.  I don't care if its super detailed, but even like 10 sec of a short battle would be very exciting.  Thanks.  And thanks for dropping us some pics here and there.  Appreciated.

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November 22, 2011 12:04:27 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting pacov,
I dig it. I do wish a bit more went into changing the backgrounds though. You can only see minor, if any, differences there. I love the look of space in sins and I guess its ok if only the ships are getting more "pretty," but I'd love to see some cool new things in space. Mayhaps even completely unique eye candy on X type of planet or w/e (even if its totally random). Anyway, I do like how that ship looks at the very least.

Let the Devs focus on the graphics engine, us modders can always make more backgrounds and planet details. Since I'm guessing that's particle shader 3 (or whatever its called) at work, that's something we need them to do.

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November 22, 2011 12:13:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting NoobFukaire,
BEHOLD the power of poorly done Blinn Phong lighting with normal maps!

This is so state of the art I think I'm going to put on some flannel, go fire up the original UT and listen to some quad city DJ's.

It's great to see you guys getting jiggy with the graphics card... I can't wait to see whats next!

 

When it comes to adding things like proper shadows, unit animations, turret rotation and other graphical features from 2003; the party line is:

" it’s hard to justify spending the CPU cycles on a purely cosmetic feature that you’d only see when fully zoomed in. "

 

But when a minor lighting change is made:

"This is done so that Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion remains state of the art visually."

 

 

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November 22, 2011 4:45:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, "proper shadows"="lighting change", so it seem that Stardock have realize one of your wish...

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November 22, 2011 5:22:17 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ya know--I was told 250 programmers worked for over two years straight on one of the iterations of Call of Duty.  Everyone wanting a full CGI movie mode in Dolby sound and the like go ahead--buy EA games, get a PS3 or whatever.

Sins is a game made by gamers for gamers.  The fact that they have some programming savvy people is what has allowed it to work on a smallish budget with a small company--and they are small compared to the TV commercialed, giant publishing companies.  They don't have dedicated hardware systems tied to their games, publishing and developing houses doing the work for them and dozens of millions to spend on development.

Great games are augmented by graphics--not made by them.  Play through an old version of Freelancer sometimes and you'll be amazed how much fun it is--even with the crude polygonal ships and people (by today's standards).

Released by the biggest software company in the world at the time, Microsoft.  Where is this stand-out game now?  Kept alive by hard-core fans and modders and completely abandoned by Microsoft.  Companies don't always get games.  They usually get "packaging" and profit.

Read a book--where the heck are the graphics and sound!?  The story and surprise is what makes a book--not effects.  For me, the Wing Commander series was one of the most fun games ever--and the graphics were laughable by today's standards.Where is Wing Commander now?  Abandoned and kept alive by fans (no disrespect to GOG).  What took it's place?  Nothing.

I'd trade most games out there now for a good sequel to Freelancer with some of the original development that was intended at first for it.  As an old wargamer, I can see the sort of nuance in Sins that just isn't in most other games.  This is a game by people who know about unit counters, stacking limits, zones of control--etc.  Not some arcade shoot-em-up.

No complaints from me except why did it take so long for somebody out there to make this!?   I also appreciate the fact that this is in the last generation of games that will run on nearly any system--both older and newer--when big companies are speculating that the marketability of PC games is likely to be less profitable.

Lot's of value here for me and considering you won't have paid more than the cost of two releases of some console game for both core games and the expansions combined, it's a great value.

I'm excited to see the work continuing on it.  I'd give you karma but you own it all here

 

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November 22, 2011 9:49:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinperium,
Ya know--I was told 250 programmers worked for over two years straight on one of the iterations of Call of Duty.  Everyone wanting a full CGI movie mode in Dolby sound and the like go ahead--buy EA games, get a PS3 or whatever.

Sins is a game made by gamers for gamers.  The fact that they have some programming savvy people is what has allowed it to work on a smallish budget with a small company--and they are small compared to the TV commercialed, giant publishing companies.  They don't have dedicated hardware systems tied to their games, publishing and developing houses doing the work for them and dozens of millions to spend on development.

Great games are augmented by graphics--not made by them.  Play through an old version of Freelancer sometimes and you'll be amazed how much fun it is--even with the crude polygonal ships and people (by today's standards).

Released by the biggest software company in the world at the time, Microsoft.  Where is this stand-out game now?  Kept alive by hard-core fans and modders and completely abandoned by Microsoft.  Companies don't always get games.  They usually get "packaging" and profit.

Read a book--where the heck are the graphics and sound!?  The story and surprise is what makes a book--not effects.  For me, the Wing Commander series was one of the most fun games ever--and the graphics were laughable by today's standards.Where is Wing Commander now?  Abandoned and kept alive by fans (no disrespect to GOG).  What took it's place?  Nothing.

I'd trade most games out there now for a good sequel to Freelancer with some of the original development that was intended at first for it.  As an old wargamer, I can see the sort of nuance in Sins that just isn't in most other games.  This is a game by people who know about unit counters, stacking limits, zones of control--etc.  Not some arcade shoot-em-up.

No complaints from me except why did it take so long for somebody out there to make this!?   I also appreciate the fact that this is in the last generation of games that will run on nearly any system--both older and newer--when big companies are speculating that the marketability of PC games is likely to be less profitable.

Lot's of value here for me and considering you won't have paid more than the cost of two releases of some console game for both core games and the expansions combined, it's a great value.

I'm excited to see the work continuing on it.  I'd give you karma but you own it all here

 

This post touched a nerve with me only because I was a part of the Freelancer community out there for a while.  It is abandonware, really good abandonware, that is kept alive by fans and kicking butt with thousands of fans with dozens of mods out there.  I liked Freelancer because it reminded me of ELITE from the Apple ][ days so there is a narrative that I followed that go back a whole lot farther than just Freelancer itself.

It will be interesting to see what the future iterations of Sins looks like from here on out.

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November 22, 2011 10:30:52 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You're right. In all this commotion, we all forgot the most important thing. Books in fact do not have 3D graphics. This has led me to several shocking conclusions and I am still reeling from this shocking realization. A bold new future awaits humanity, Sinperium, and you have led us there. 

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November 22, 2011 11:40:07 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Carbon016,
Books in fact do not have 3D graphics

In some way, book have a 3D engine... it is the brain of the reader... and it is why book are great... Your brain can obly imagine the perfect 3D world for you... in case of game, it is somebody else ( dev ) who imagine the 3D world in your place... in some case, it is good but not as perfect as your have imagine it...and of course, it will never please everybody...

Quoting Sinperium,
For me, the Wing Commander series was one of the most fun games ever--and the graphics were laughable by today's standards.Where is Wing Commander now?  Abandoned and kept alive by fans (no disrespect to GOG).  What took it's place?  Nothing.
...
As an old wargamer, I can see the sort of nuance in Sins that just isn't in most other games.  This is a game by people who know about unit counters, stacking limits, zones of control--etc.  Not some arcade shoot-em-up.
...

First, fan can make a lot... for example, i like very much a game called Harpoon ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpoon_%28series%29 )  ...have begin with the Amiga version in 1990 and end up with the 20 year ultimate version last year... point is that 3 dev company have work on it... dying one after the other... it is the fan who have support it and allow to survive... as today, it is Advanced Gamings System who take care of the core but the database with everything is created/maintened/updated by a fan forum...

And yes, i think that sins is like these Harpoon example... that it will survive several decade... with the help of fan..

Some complain that change are minor... well, if it was so easy, why there are not some other game business who have made a sins "clone" who is better in the last 4 years... don't say that sins is a niche market... over 2000000 copy sell is not anymore a niche market

@ Swiss Knight

Somehow, i understand your rant about the limited graphic improvement of Rebellion, specially when people look at these video ( best to right click, save link as ): http://www.dawnofvictory.com/Media/DoVFeatures.mp4 ... your mod is gorgeous at the graphical level and the new rebellion improvement will not add a lot for you... but when compare the original sins and rebellion graphic, it is really a improvement...

 

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November 22, 2011 12:01:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Man--I love Harpoon.  That game was epic (I was a submarine nut too).

Well said too Thoumsin.

To me, focusing on graphics and effects over play in Sins is like arguing in chess and checkers about "why there need to be more colors".

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November 22, 2011 12:03:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Carbon016,
You're right. In all this commotion, we all forgot the most important thing. Books in fact do not have 3D graphics. This has led me to several shocking conclusions and I am still reeling from this shocking realization. A bold new future awaits humanity, Sinperium, and you have led us there. 

You're finally going to buy a Kindle?

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November 22, 2011 12:38:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wow, it must've took 5million mind controlling advent to wash that mother ship. It looks very clean!

I wonder if reflection shades comes with that shadow effect. Wouldn't be amazing to see small fighters or Titans reflection off of those ships?

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November 22, 2011 12:54:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinperium,
Man--I love Harpoon.  That game was epic (I was a submarine nut too).

Well, i have know this game during my military time... was used for training... i was a weapons technician on a frigate where the main purpose was hunt submarine...

By the way, the game IS epic, it is not yet dead ( http://www.matrixgames.com/products/392/details/Larry.Bond%27s.Harpoon.-.Ultimate.Edition 25$ discount for these who own the previous edition)... and the fan forum is always running at http://www.harpgamer.com/harpforum/index.php?autocom=portal ( maps, database, scenario, etc )

Graphic is really ugly, thousand time lower that these of sins but remain a good and complex strategy game... Sins have the potential to live very long, with support of fan and modders...

Let see... Harpoon released in 1989, Harpoon II in 1994, Harpoon III in 2001, Larry Bond Harppon in 2007 ... around 5 year between release... sins is not yet 4 year old... if they use similar release rate, a sins II will not be before early 2013... sins code and model are more complex that these from harpoon...

Sure they can rush a release... like supcom II who was inferior to Forged alliance, like Dragon age II who was inferior to the original... best for the sins dev to take their time for make major change to the engine ( 64 bits, multicore support, tracking turret with firing angle, etc )... rushing is what kill a game... i don't wish a broken rebellion because customer push the devs to include more new features that they can handle... better some little good working improvement that a bunch of bugs...

I wish that sins survive until my retirement time... once retired, i will certainly have Parkinson disease, and a shaking hand will make me perfect for click-feast games... glaucoma will automatic focus my view on target for FPS shooter game... on the other hand, memory loss will be bad for strategic game like sins...

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November 22, 2011 1:34:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Static screenshots are worthless, I could get the same effect by turning up my brightness.

 

 

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November 22, 2011 3:16:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting wbino,
Static screenshots are worthless, I could get the same effect by turning up my brightness.

The shadow on the revelation and the darker areas around the edges would be harder to do but not impossible. And if you have enough time a video of it would also be possible by editing every frame in photoshop.

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November 22, 2011 7:06:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Thoumsin,
I wish that sins survive until my retirement time... once retired, i will certainly have Parkinson disease, and a shaking hand will make me perfect for click-feast games... glaucoma will automatic focus my view on target for FPS shooter game... on the other hand, memory loss will be bad for strategic game like sins...

So damn funny, yet so potentially true. 

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November 23, 2011 2:10:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Can anyone explain why the images have a Captial Ships supply of -22? I am fairly certain that you can only go up to 16 in Sins

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November 23, 2011 2:33:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

In normal circumstances, yes, unmodded sins can only go up to 16, however, Frogboy is using the dev exe and spawning ships so it's very easy to have 38 capital ships floating around there somewhere.  I do that stuff all of the time to test things.

Modding of course can change this number.  In the Distant Stars mod, the number of capital ships you can have during normal game play is 32.

Edit: 33 if you play with the DS flagship minimod and build your 32 caps first and then call in your flagship.  >=]

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November 23, 2011 10:24:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Stant123,
33 if you play with the DS flagship minimod and build your 32 caps first and then call in your flagship.

Muhahahahaha

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November 24, 2011 3:25:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thank you Stant, I was unaware of this. I thought that Frogboy have given us extra information. But alas, pics are still awesome .

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