GameSpy: Preview of Rebellion » Forum Post by EmpReb

Quoting SteelFin,

What I find most interesting about the preview is the part about the build process. I know there has been some discussion on titan balance - whether making them easy to obtain but very weak until leveled, or difficult to build but strong from the start were some of the options.

Because they are built in four stages and other players are alerted (so they can strike before it is done I imagine), I assume they are going to be very strong from the get go, unless building one is meant to be a high risk gamble.

My other thought while reading the factions differences was the following - when fighting the TEC Loyalists, how does one break through a grav well with two star bases and titan defending it.

THANK YOU, back on topic finally.

Given that titans will take time to build it isn't something you'd build on a front line world, people may intentionsally jump planets to ensure they have a staging ground to produce it and ensure protection so that they can't be overrun.

In saying that i'd expect the Loyalest Titan to be the easyiest to protect/produce, starbases either side

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Can play my Steam games in offline mode you say?

So say steam isn't hogging resources in the background yet, I don't let it boot at startup. Oh, and Comcast is being a dick today, and my service is down. Well damnit I want to play some Civilization 5, and I don't care about achievements! I try to run Civ5, Steam pops up and says it cannot connect to my account, would I like to play in offline mode? Sure I say. But a moment later Steam says it cannot connect to its services, and the only option is "OK", which, after pressing, Steam closes. No Civ5.

So yes, I absolutely have to have connection. And I absolutely have to have a shit program running in the back.

If this game requires Steam I will have lost most of my respect for Ironclad and Stardock - their lack of any DRM whatsoever beyond product keys on such a great game is what made me so proud of them in the first place.

On topic: I'm getting more and more excited about these loyalist/rebel factions. I really can't decide which one sounds cooler of the TEC factions. Cannot wait for more info!

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steam's offline mode is pretty terrible and steam is a little bloated but 30MB of RAM shouldn't really be an issue for anybody with a computer that can actually run Sins in the first place (the bar is not high)

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Quoting Lord-Vale3,

reply 102

Can play my Steam games in offline mode you say?

So say steam isn't hogging resources in the background yet, I don't let it boot at startup. Oh, and Comcast is being a dick today, and my service is down. Well damnit I want to play some Civilization 5, and I don't care about achievements! I try to run Civ5, Steam pops up and says it cannot connect to my account, would I like to play in offline mode? Sure I say. But a moment later Steam says it cannot connect to its services, and the only option is "OK", which, after pressing, Steam closes. No Civ5.

So yes, I absolutely have to have connection. And I absolutely have to have a shit program running in the back.

To use Offline mode, you need to save your Steam login.

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Quoting JCD-Bionicman,

reply 89

Again people, what crack are you smoking? First of all, Rebellion isnt just a Steam exclusive, its a SteamWORKS exclusive. No offline mode.

Um, yes there is an offline mode. Have you ever even tried Steam? Played around with it's settings? Even looked at it at a friends house or even read up on it? Did you even read the myriad of other posts directly from Stardock in this thread? Here's how they've laid it out.

1. Yes, steamworks is required for install and play multiplayer(via ICO).

2. Yes, you can play the game in single player with steam in offline mode.

3. Yes, you can play Multiplayer via LAN with steam in offline mode.

What does this mean? It means you can play with steam in offline mode (but as another has said you need to save your login details prior to starting offline mode which is as simple as telling steam to remember your login.). You can even play LAN games with steam in offline mode. So if you set up a forwarded port (or in my case a virtual server in my router) you can still play multiplayer games online via the LAN option with steam in offline mode. It's not hard to set up. The only two things you won't get with steam in offline mode is:

1. Multiplayer via ICO (Ironclad online).

2. Steam Achievements.

So YES THERE IS AN OFFLINE MODE. Please do your research and know what you are talking about before spreading fear mongering because you don't like the "idea" of using Steam. I'm all well and fine with someone telling other people why they don't like something when they have a legitimate argument with reasons based in fact. But I have no respect when someone starts making claims that are downright untrue because they haven't done their research, and then claim them as fact. That doesn't help anyone wanting the correct information and only discredits yourself for making the false claims. And then it's up to Stardock and others to clean up your mess of misinformation. So I'm the one smoking crack? I'll wait until you come up with a "VALID" argument before I ever think to take your comment seriously.

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WHIPperSNAPper2008

Join Date 03/2008

+126

Dumb question, but would there be any problems with running Steaworks on Win XP Pro SP3?

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Quoting DirtySanchezz,

reply 106

Dumb question, but would there be any problems with running Steaworks on Win XP Pro SP3?

If you can run steam. You can run steamworks.

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GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008

+629

Quoting Lord-Vale3,

reply 102

If this game requires Steam I will have lost most of my respect for Ironclad and Stardock - their lack of any DRM whatsoever beyond product keys on such a great game is what made me so proud of them in the first place.

I think its just Stardock who makes the selling decisions as the publisher. Ironclad is the developer, but in this case Stardock has done a lot of the work actually making the game too.

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Quoting Rebell44,

reply 104

To use Offline mode, you need to save your Steam login.

It is saved. Offline still doesn't work. You have to have been online at some point with Steam on for offline mode to work.

Quoting bignick217,

reply 105

Um, yes there is an offline mode. Have you ever even tried Steam? Played around with it's settings? Even looked at it at a friends house or even read up on it? Did you even read the myriad of other posts directly from Stardock in this thread? Here's how they've laid it out.

1. Yes, steamworks is required for install and play multiplayer(via ICO).

2. Yes, you can play the game in single player with steam in offline mode.

3. Yes, you can play Multiplayer via LAN with steam in offline mode.

What does this mean? It means you can play with steam in offline mode (but as another has said you need to save your login details prior to starting offline mode which is as simple as telling steam to remember your login.). You can even play LAN games with steam in offline mode. So if you set up a forwarded port (or in my case a virtual server in my router) you can still play multiplayer games online via the LAN option with steam in offline mode. It's not hard to set up. The only two things you won't get with steam in offline mode is:

1. Multiplayer via ICO (Ironclad online).

2. Steam Achievements.

So YES THERE IS AN OFFLINE MODE. Please do your research and know what you are talking about before spreading fear mongering because you don't like the "idea" of using Steam. I'm all well and fine with someone telling other people why they don't like something when they have a legitimate argument with reasons based in fact. But I have no respect when someone starts making claims that are downright untrue because they haven't done their research, and then claim them as fact. That doesn't help anyone wanting the correct information and only discredits yourself for making the false claims. And then it's up to Stardock and others to clean up your mess of misinformation. So I'm the one smoking crack? I'll wait until you come up with a "VALID" argument before I ever think to take your comment seriously.

I still have to be online at some point with Steam open for offline mode to work later. This means that in order to play my Steam games whenever I want regardless of hiccups with the ISP or problems with the Steam network itself, I have to:

1. Always have Steam running in the background

2. Never turn my computer off

To some people, these two requirements might not be a big deal. To others, it's a gamebreaker. You can defend Steam all you want, and you can rage at people who don't like it, but it doesn't change the fact that Steamworks is incredibly inconvenient, and punishes customers.

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Quoting Lord-Vale3,

reply 109

It is saved. Offline still doesn't work. You have to have been online at some point with Steam on for offline mode to work.

Yes, you will at one point. When you install the game and activate it. Other wise, it's just when you want to update it.

Quoting Lord-Vale3,

reply 109

I still have to be online at some point with Steam open for offline mode to work later. This means that in order to play my Steam games whenever I want regardless of hiccups with the ISP or problems with the Steam network itself, I have to:

1. Always have Steam running in the background

2. Never turn my computer off

When you say it doesn't work, what do you mean? Are you talking about when you boot your computer and it asks if you want to start in offline mode? Or are you talking about in general. I only ask because I've just tested it. I started it in offline mode just fine. Then rebooted my computer and it still started in offline mode. Although it did the usual thing of asking if I wanted to start in offline mode first. When steam starts up, does it ask you for your password? If it does, it's not saved your login properly for offline mode to work. And you shouldn't need to keep your computer on just so you don't have to put steam online. But yes you are right. You would at least have to have steam running in the background in offline mode while playing the game.

Quoting Lord-Vale3,

reply 109

To some people, these two requirements might not be a big deal. To others, it's a gamebreaker.

I can't and won't argue that point because I completely agree with it. I was never defending Steam in the fanboy way. All I was saying is that it is not as bad as many were making it out to be and out of all the other horrible options there are out there, I think Stardock/Ironclad made the right choice. But that's my opinion. I mean, if we had no choice but to deal with at least one form of DRM, I'm at least glad that it's something as benign as Steam. And it "is" quite benign when compared to most of the other current alternatives. Plus I can't deny the prospect of there being a much larger Sins community that will most likely result from it entering steam. Making it more popular and hopefully increasing the multiplayer community.

Quoting Lord-Vale3,

reply 109

You can defend Steam all you want, and you can rage at people who don't like it, but it doesn't change the fact that Steamworks is incredibly inconvenient, and punishes customers.

While I agreed with the previous statement, this one I don't. Because it is not a "fact". It is an "opinion". Your "opinion" and a subjective one at that. I will refer you to your own statement. "To some people, these two requirements might not be a big deal. To others, it's a game breaker." It's your opinion that it's a game breaker for you. But it's not a game breaker for me. I don't find the requirement to use Steam an inconvenience. But again, that is "my" opinion. I don't expect you to agree with me, nor would I try to force you to. But I do at least expect you to respect my opinion, just like I respect yours. Oh, and I wasn't raging at people for not liking steam. I was raging at people making false claims about steam and claiming them as fact. There's a difference. I could care less if someone likes or dislikes steam. What I do have a problem with is when people make unsubstantiated claims about something making false claims and stating opinions and then claiming both or either to be facts when they're not. That's what I have a problem with. And yes, there is a clear difference between what you think I was doing and what I was actually doing. Also, if your really worried about steam to that extent, then you could still buy it and then do some research to get it to start without steam. There are ways. Will I tell you how. No chance. But it is possible. Just bear in mind that the same rules would apply. No Multiplayer via ICO. And no Steam achievements. Although I highly doubt you care about the latter.

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SteelFin

Join Date 11/2007

+6

I feel for the non-steam users but it's really a lost cause at this point. The exposure games get, the amount of steam users who are content with the service, and the better alternative that is Steam to other DRMs out there makes advocating the dropping of steam a very difficult battle to fight and win. Without severely impacting game sales, things won't change. And to do that, you need either a lot of steam users to jump ship because of their practices or all the voices of the potential rebellion purchasing steam hater voices to outweigh the other group. Its possible but unlikely.

It is a small consolation but yes, you can play single player in offline mode for many games after you've registered them with steam once. I used to be against it but honestly, I'd rather steam than the DRMS that require you to be online and sync up every time you launch the game. I have a game that uses that type of DRM and I can tell you how great it is when you bought a game for single player and can't play because 1) your network is down 2) their network is down 3) There is an issue with their sync.

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Quoting Yarlen,

reply 79

Rebellion will feature LAN play the same as the previous Sins' games have.

Yeah!!!! Yarlen ... I could kiss you!

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will people still be able to buy a phyisical copy of the game?

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Quoting sporemaster,

reply 113

will people still be able to buy a phyisical copy of the game?

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/418058

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Quoting -Ue_Carbon,

reply 114

Quoting sporemaster, reply 113will people still be able to buy a phyisical copy of the game?

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/418058[/quote]

At this point it looks like the answer is no, purely for monetary reasons.

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NOOOOOOO! THE HORROR! First steam now THIS I'm so close to not getting the game but I've been waiting for so long it's almost unethical not to get it.

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Really happy that i don't work anymore in the military Navy... internet connection don't exist in the middle of ocean... so, steam is a no go... curious to know the situation for US military who are stationed in the middle of some irak desert or in Afghanistan ( or any poorly developed country )...

I am pretty sure that in the 4-5 year that i was busy on these forum, there was a few guys who was military and working in isolated region of the world... hmmm, what are the coordinate of the Stardock headquarter, i need it for program my missile for retaliation... sure military are a minority, we can forget about them...

As say before, move to steam is a good move, it open a new door for distribution and sales... but closing the other door are stupid, it will only reduce sales... Stardock have wrote that they make most of their sins sales via retail but their choose to kill retail... i understand that it is best to close a unused door but it is crazy to close the main door that a majority of customer are using... a logic way will have be to start use Steam and only once the majority of customer have move to steam, kill the retail...

Quoting boshimi336,

reply 115

At this point it looks like the answer is no, purely for monetary reasons.

As for the monetary issue... so, 40$ for online and 15$ for retail... since Stardock say that retail remain their main sale, let say 60% retail and 40% online... for sale amount, let's take the number before diplomacy release, 2 million sins copy... and let assume that due to Steam only thing, 25% of people will move from retail to steam :

Retail + online :

- retail : 1200000 copy at 15$

- online : 800000 copy at 40$

total : 50 million

online only :

- online : 800000 copy at 40$

- 25% of retail can/agree_to move to steam : 300000 other copy at 40$

total : 44 million

Result is a loss of 6 million... don't think that the reason is monetary unless they hope that a majority of their customer will move to Steam... well, since game publisher stat are more secret that military secret, my calculation are theorical only... Stardock say that retail is the majority of their sales but what mean majority? It can range from 50.000001% to 99.999999%... and a steam online version don't give 40$ to Stardock... steam don't work for free, they take their share too... impossible to know how much because there is no a flat fee or some %... each game is a individual case where the steam share is negociate...

By the way, Steam was chosen for please the multiplayer guys... some have wrote that the ratio was something like 95% single player and 5% multiplayer... well, i think that these numbers are wrong... before trinity, there was already over 2 million copy of sins sell... if 5% of them was online player, it will mean 100000 online player... well, take a look on ico, at best, there is 100-200 player... but being generous, let say that there is 10000 online player... same so, it make the ratio become 99.5/0.5 ... so, for please 0.5% of people, they screw 99.5% of the other people...

Sure that Stardock have make a bunch of statistical study before making all these recent decision but honestly, i am not sure about the sanity of their financial/strategy advisor...

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Quoting Thoumsin,

reply 117

Really happy that i don't work anymore in the military Navy... internet connection don't exist in the middle of ocean... so, steam is a no go... curious to know the situation for US military who are stationed in the middle of some irak desert or in Afghanistan ( or any poorly developed country )...

I am pretty sure that in the 4-5 year that i was busy on these forum, there was a few guys who was military and working in isolated region of the world... hmmm, what are the coordinate of the Stardock headquarter, i need it for program my missile for retaliation... sure military are a minority, we can forget about them...

As say before, move to steam is a good move, it open a new door for distribution and sales... but closing the other door are stupid, it will only reduce sales... Stardock have wrote that they make most of their sins sales via retail but their choose to kill retail... i understand that it is best to close a unused door but it is crazy to close the main door that a majority of customer are using... a logic way will have be to start use Steam and only once the majority of customer have move to steam, kill the retail...

Quoting boshimi336,
reply 115
At this point it looks like the answer is no, purely for monetary reasons.

As for the monetary issue... so, 40$ for online and 15$ for retail... since Stardock say that retail remain their main sale, let say 60% retail and 40% online... for sale amount, let's take the number before diplomacy release, 2 million sins copy... and let assume that due to Steam only thing, 25% of people will move from retail to steam :

Retail + online :

- retail : 1200000 copy at 15$

- online : 800000 copy at 40$

total : 50 million

online only :

- online : 800000 copy at 40$

- 25% of retail can/agree_to move to steam : 300000 other copy at 40$

total : 44 million

Result is a loss of 6 million... don't think that the reason is monetary unless they hope that a majority of their customer will move to Steam... well, since game publisher stat are more secret that military secret, my calculation are theorical only... Stardock say that retail is the majority of their sales but what mean majority? It can range from 50.000001% to 99.999999%... and a steam online version don't give 40$ to Stardock... steam don't work for free, they take their share too... impossible to know how much because there is no a flat fee or some %... each game is a individual case where the steam share is negociate...

By the way, Steam was chosen for please the multiplayer guys... some have wrote that the ratio was something like 95% single player and 5% multiplayer... well, i think that these numbers are wrong... before trinity, there was already over 2 million copy of sins sell... if 5% of them was online player, it will mean 100000 online player... well, take a look on ico, at best, there is 100-200 player... but being generous, let say that there is 10000 online player... same so, it make the ratio become 99.5/0.5 ... so, for please 0.5% of people, they screw 99.5% of the other people...

Sure that Stardock have make a bunch of statistical study before making all these recent decision but honestly, i am not sure about the sanity of their financial/strategy advisor...

many of those who were buying via retail when Sins was released in 2008 already switched to digital distribution - lets not forget that Steam maintain 100+% sales growth per year over past 7 years.

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Perhaps they forgo the new customers and try to get a copy of rebellion to everyone who bought sins previously - those who most likely are already used to getting the extensions and updates and other software online? Still a strange decision but getting a good publisher in every country is not easy (especially in europe)

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Ps: nice new Icon thoumsin!

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One reason why i don't like Steam :

$1 = 1€ crap

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Definitely agree with you there. If it's one major complaint I would have with steam, it's that they really need to learn how to "properly" account for exchange rates. 35 to 40 pounds for a PC game is way too high. Especially when you can get the same PC games via online shops like game.co.uk for 25 pound. Or in the case of Sins of a Solar Empire Trinity, 17.95 GBP and you got the disc with it. So yes. Steams sales are better than retail sales. But they really need to get their full price game prices down to be more competitive. If they brought down their new release software prices down at least 10 - 15 pounds in general, I would be much happier with buying new games from their storefront. As it is, I shop around a lot for the best deals, often going retail first. Or in this case, I got the better deal ordering directly from Stardock.

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I only pre-ordered it because I knew it was going to use steamworks. I guess I'm stupid to love steam as much as I do. Devil you know I guess....

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Quoting ne_zavarj,

reply 121

One reason why i don't like Steam :

$1 = 1€ crap

Prices are set by publishers, not by Valve (except of Valve games).

My solution is to wait for such game to drop to price I consider reasonable...

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Quoting Rebell44,

reply 124

Prices are set by publishers, not by Valve (except of Valve games).

My solution is to wait for such game to drop to price I consider reasonable...

Wrong... Publishers set the MSRP (Manufacturer Suggested Retail Price). Retailers buy the products (or in Steam's case Serial keys) at a reduced price. Then the retailers sell them at whatever price they deem fit to not only make a profit, but to compete with their competitors. Manufacture/Publisher -> Vendors/Distributors -> Retailers -> Customers. That's why you can go to one store and find a product for one price and then go to another store and find the same product for a different price. That's also why for a new game to be released, you can find that game for 30 to 40 pounds on Steam, but find the same game on game.co.uk for 15 to 25. Although the price difference does vary from game to game. But game.co.uk is most often cheaper than Steam in regards to new releases and you get the disk with it. Steam is no different than any other retailer in regards to buying and selling. Except steam is probably closer to a vendor/distributor rather than a retailer. And ne_zavarj is absolutely right when he points to steam's incorrect pricing in some instances. Their prices don't accurately reflect the exchange rates like they should for the same product in different regions.

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