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And Stardock raises the white flag (to Valve)

By on February 20, 2012 4:24:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

GoaFan77

Join Date 10/2008
+581

Its the end of an era folks.

Quoting Yarlen,
The Steam client will be required for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion for initial install, updates and Internet multiplayer, regardless of purchase location. You can choose to play in offline mode via the Steam client after initial install, though ICO features and achievements will no longer be available.

---

4. Gamers shall have the right to have their games not require a third party download manager installed in order for the game to function.

...

8. Gamers have the right to use their games without being inconvenienced due to copy protection or digital rights management.

Now its debatable whether this news actually goes against the PC gamers bill of rights Stardock pushed forward 3-4 years ago, but it certainly seems an ominous change of pace for the company to me. Are the other Stardock gaming communities concerned? Will other Stardock titles follow suite? Does this symbolically show the finalization of the Steam monopoly, short of the self sufficient EA and Blizzard titles? What does the wider community think, and what can we do about it?

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February 21, 2012 9:54:39 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

 

At the risk of allienating some in this thread......

I was here (with SINS) since before release-day.  I was active on ICO (although mostly for the purposes of helping people host games and not actually playing) for years. So keep that in mind when I post the rest of what I'm going to say.

I  believe that had SINS been initially released on STEAM (with steamworks integration) the above story would have gone much differently.  Know why I believe that?  Because I personally on my own private TeamSpeak and over ICO talked many many people through the initially rather complicated setup changes some people had to make to be able to host (for some it was as easy as forward this and that port........for others it was here let's change your double-NAT scenario, or let's modify some NAT-filtering rules your ISP set up without your knowledge etc. etc.).  I literally spent hours of my own time helping people do those things, talking them through step-by-step even after I had written a step-by-step guide (which by the way was downloaded from my website several thousand times in the first few weeks alone).  In other words, I have been pretty damn close to the SINS community!

 

My obvservations have led me to believe the following:

 

1.  As the DEVS stated even back then; their game was being mostly played SP or offline and not on ICO.

2.  I believe that was in part due to the difficulties hosting (initially.......pre-Alloy).

3.  I also believe due to the lack of any DRM at all that many, many and oh did I say many people chose to play SINS as a LAN-party game where a bunch of people get together share it around and get busy.

 

*Interesting anecdote from 2008 sometime:  I was at a dinner-party (parents of a friend of my sons).  I happen to overhear one of my sons friends (all in their early to mid 20's) comment to another in their group about how awesome it is that "Sins of a Solar empire has no DRM dude......it'll be our new LAN game for years".  I immediately pose the question to the group "While it is in fact pretty nice of those DEVS to have release their game without any DRM of any kind wouldn't the right thing to do be for each of them to buy their own copy?  Especially now that they've all agreed they love it and it will be their "LAN game for years"?"   Ashamed silence is all I got and since I didn't want to ruin the dinner party for my wife and their parents I let shame be the end of that.

 

 

Number 3 is why I believe *most* people of the old SINS community who are complaining about STEAM are in fact complaining about STEAM/STEAMWORKS. 

 

Those of you opposing STEAM/STEAMWORKS in this thread claim it is due to "principle".  Well hear this; I am just as principled.  My principles dictate that I post contrary viewpoints to those who believe (wrongly in my opinion) that STEAM being wrong for them (the old smurfy SINS community) will effect some sort of loss on IC they move forward with STEAMWORKS integration.  In my opinion they couldn't be more wrong.  STEAMWORKS integration with Rebellion will breathe life into SINS like there was never before!  Oh sure the "old-guard" will be pissed........who cares.......I'm also part of the "old-guard" but I support change.........especially change that can only serve to increase the SINS playerbase tenfold.

 

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February 21, 2012 10:10:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,


1.  As the DEVS stated even back then; their game was being mostly played SP or offline and not on ICO.

2.  I believe that was in part due to the difficulties hosting (initially.......pre-Alloy).

3.  I also believe due to the lack of any DRM at all that many, many and oh did I say many people chose to play SINS as a LAN-party game where a bunch of people get together share it around and get busy.

 

 

And point #4 - Completely eliminate the smurfing problem 

 

I think the devs will be surprised at what they get from integration with steam.... the playerbase is going to be great!

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February 21, 2012 10:36:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Rovert10,
Well at least the modders arn't gonna go up and quit on us.

Half the reason I got this game was for the modding community.

Well Draak and Harpo seems to be leaving (or rather get left behind in Diplomacy), and Darvin is both an expert strategist and a map maker. Others may move on as well, though admittingly how moddable Rebellion is will probably have more impact (though what I know about the Steam version of say Oblivion isn't encouraging). But these guys are some of the most helpful on the board (Harpo probably has the most Karma out of anyone who is only on the Sins board) and will certainly be missed.

Quoting the_Monk,
3. I also believe due to the lack of any DRM at all that many, many and oh did I say many people chose to play SINS as a LAN-party game where a bunch of people get together share it around and get busy.

Quoting the_Monk,
y principles dictate that I post contrary viewpoints to those who believe (wrongly in my opinion) that STEAM being wrong for them (the old smurfy SINS community) will effect some sort of loss on IC they move forward with STEAMWORKS integration.

I'm curious who exactly you're responding to Monk, as I haven't seen much if any of the old guard multiplayer "smurfy" community in this thread. In fact the ones respectable enough to maintain a public presence seem to be a bit optimistic about it, mostly worried about if Steam might reduce performance.

I and many of the people complaining in this thread are primarily modders or single players, and as I said I don't care about formal multiplayer in the slightest. I paid for my game knowing it had no DRM and no one who is still here this many patches into the game likely pirated it.

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February 21, 2012 11:13:06 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,

I'm curious who exactly you're responding to Monk, as I haven't seen much if any of the old guard multiplayer "smurfy" community in this thread. In fact the ones respectable enough to maintain a public presence seem to be a bit optimistic about it, mostly worried about if Steam might reduce performance.

The "smurfy" comment wasn't directed at anyone in particular.  Anyone who has been around SINS MP long enough knows who the smurfs and their "alts" are; I was simply saying "who cares if some of the old guard smurfy smurfs get pissed........they are (contrary to their beliefs maybe) not "the community".


Quoting GoaFan77,

I and many of the people complaining in this thread are primarily modders or single players, and as I said I don't care about formal multiplayer in the slightest. I paid for my game knowing it had no DRM and no one who is still here this many patches into the game likely pirated it.

This is part of the problem though.  These days a new game is only as good/fresh/engaging/captivating as it's MP component.  As much as us older gamers maybe fondly remember our 'epic' SP-only games of old; this is the new video-game landscape and a new game's longevity (for better or for worse) is absolutely defined by how well it's MP component does what I've already stated. 

The proverbial writing with regard to this has been on the wall for some time now, there is no escaping it.  MP makes the gaming world go around and digital distributors holding the reigns to the distribution, connectivity and stat-tracking all under one roof is the way it's all going to be.  The only one's who (in my opinion) still oppose same are those [few] who still hang onto the old idea of slow, story-driven SP gaming (believe me I was one of those too at one time.......I've just agreed to evolve! ) and those who look to circumvent buying multiple copies of games because their favourite kind of gaming is at LAN-parties and well........let's face it.........who ponies up for 10 copies of game just to "play with some buds drinkin some buds!" ? 

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February 21, 2012 11:27:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,
These days a new game is only as good/fresh/engaging/captivating as it's MP component. As much as us older gamers maybe fondly remember our 'epic' SP-only games of old; this is the new video-game landscape and a new game's longevity (for better or for worse) is absolutely defined by how well it's MP component does what I've already stated.

As a gaming trend, absolutely. But I don't care what the trends are when forming what I want from a game. They're really isn't an argument here. The only action I am demanding from Stardock is to email all preorderers that Rebellion will now require steam, as a change in DRM scheme is something they ought to know about. If you're right and those of us that "refuse to evolve" get left in the dust so be it.

Quoting the_Monk,
story-driven SP gaming

Just FYI I don't care much about story either. I certainly wouldn't have stayed with Sins if I did.

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February 21, 2012 11:46:26 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

I think there will always be a place for single player focused games.

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February 22, 2012 1:28:42 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
As a gaming trend, absolutely. But I don't care what the trends are when forming what I want from a game. They're really isn't an argument here. The only action I am demanding from Stardock is to email all preorderers that Rebellion will now require steam, as a change in DRM scheme is something they ought to know about. If you're right and those of us that "refuse to evolve" get left in the dust so be it.

Informing preorderers of the Steam requirement is a good idea.

I refuse to evolve too, and am pretty much getting left in the dust. This computer I am using is one my dad had built nearly a decade ago as the family's first computer, so I if I ever want to play a modern game, I had better get something new.

Quoting Tasunke,
I think there will always be a place for single player focused games.

One can only hope, I still primarily look for a single player experience, that doesn't mean I don't appreciate multiplayer. I will probably pay more attention to multiplayer once I get a new computer.

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February 22, 2012 2:16:17 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting EmersonPF,


Plus, it doesn't have stupid popups like Impul... I mean "GameStop Now." 

 

Well, Steam does that every time I log in with their news/update panel thing. But anyways, nothing that a second of moving the mouse and clicking the x can't cure.

 

But yeah, I used to hate Steam way back in the day, I subscribed to all the horror stories of how Valve would eventually control your computer, force you to do the Calypso and then make shrimp fingered hands bust out of your monitor and throw you to the ground. I held out as long as possible, but after Impulse was sold it was time to give Steam another try... after all they couldn't possibly be as bad as Ubisoft or Gamestop... right? And it's not. Never had a single problem, although I only have ~15 games... I still find GamersGate has better deals. I don't think I've paid less than 75% for any games except for a few new AAA titles. Offline mode works great, I log in once a week and get all the updates, glance at the stuff on sale and then go back to offline mode. 

Steam may have been the bad juju pit of despair a few years ago, but the alternatives now are far worse.

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February 22, 2012 9:15:11 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Tasunke,
I think there will always be a place for single player focused games.

 

There will be as long as people want them.

 

 

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February 22, 2012 9:57:00 AM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting Frogboy,
Too much of this reminds me of the days when people railed because we started making Windows games (when we started out an OS/2 developer).  We just want to make cool stuff that people enjoy using.   

Just like it was totally unfair when developers started making games CD only, leaving their Loyal Fans™ (with floppy drives) in the cold!

And then they did it again some time after DVDs came out! Game sales effectively came to a halt as the direct result of it! Or wait... did they?

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February 22, 2012 10:03:51 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Companies see cash when they speak multiplayer. Some way...some how...

Why bother creating a good ai? Let the players mix it up.

Why bother balancing units? We can always say you got beat by a better player.

I play single player only...I deal with enough assholes during the day, not letting them ruin my entertainment also.

I am thrilled Skyrim had the balls to forgo multiplayer and focus on a great SP experience. And it sold a ton.

Can't say I'm thrilled about Ironclads new game, it seems MP focused if not only MP.

After seeing that SOASE was 95% SP...and their core audience, you would think they as a business model they would try to grab that 95% again, instead of going after that 5%.

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February 22, 2012 12:24:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting jackswift85,
I held out as long as possible, but after Impulse was sold it was time to give Steam another try...

In my case, i have begin use Steam because of Impulse... each time that i have wish to buy a game on impulse, it end up with a "US only" thing... First game that Impulse have push me to buy on Steam was Dragon age origins... discover it on impulse but it was again US only...

So, first positive point with Stardock using Steam is that it is a worldwide service... don't need to use a US proxy and fake billing address like with Impulse when you wish yo use a title...

A other problem with the original release of sins was the delay of a few month for the European release... with Steam, it is possible to have localization release world wide at the same time, to have a good update support too... Kalypso have never made any localized update... European have end up with a mixed game with local language and english for voice...

A other positive side is that Steam work on linux... Impulse have never work... Sins/ent/dip work better on linux that on windows... by example more fps if you bios have a "discrete MTRR allocation" option and that you have more that 4gb ram...well, these bios option is not well know because it work with ALL operating system EXCEPT windows !!! A other example is the famous 2gb lmit for sins... well, it become 4gb on linux with a unmodified exe... making the exe large address aware, i was able to push the game to use over 11gb... well, now i can have steam+sins on linux, no more new update on windows and copy all the files...

So, a short summary... Steam is beneficial for worldwide release ( bye bye 'us only' and month waiting a local release ), support localization ( bye bye Kalypso ), and work on linux ( like stardock central was working on linux too )...

Now, i am not a big fan of Steam... i have my share of problem... by example, plenty of BSOD at boot time due to conflict between OS, Steam and my hardware raid system... but once boot is a success, it is stable ( problem don't exist with linux, so i bet that it is more a OS problem that a steam one )...

A other problem is that they sometime add crap to a patch... by example, around christmas, there was a patch for shogun 2... add snowman, geisha with star in hair, etc... was so crap that on some castle battle, capture point for tower was outside the castle... in some case, section of castle was missing... need to wait until after the holiday period for the game to have a new patch and become playable again...

A recent problem, last Sunday, with Medieval II Total war... connection was lost and i was unable to start the game... result was something like "Steam error : application unavailable. Try at a later time"... offline mode is great only if you start steam in offline mode... if you start online and that communication drop with their server, you can only wait until their server are not so busy or up again... by the way, i have the original disc of total war medieval II and these don't need steam... my actual version of medieval was buy on Steam when they have make a huge package with all total war game with all DLC for a very small price ( have discover Rome TW, a old one but the best of all )...

In conclusion, steam have some advantage and some disadvantage... well, nothing is perfect... and since there is no real alternative... i am not happy with the move of Rebellion to steam, i was hoping a Stardock central version who will continue to work if someday Steam dissappear ( history show that no empire have ever last forever )...

[ Jafo, don't read the following, you will thing again that i promote piracy ]

Personally, i will buy Rebellion when released ( cannot pre-order because it don't accept paypal ) ... will use it with steam... and if it become a problem to play with it due to Steam down or other Steam related reason, i will simply download a crack ( when something is protected, soon of later, there is a crack ) who allow me to fully enjoy ( single player ) the game that i have pay for...

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February 22, 2012 12:49:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,
"While it is in fact pretty nice of those DEVS to have release their game without any DRM of any kind wouldn't the right thing to do be for each of them to buy their own copy? Especially now that they've all agreed they love it and it will be their "LAN game for years"?"

 

This is how myself and over 25 people I know were introduced to Sins ... and at least 15 of us purchased the Collector's Edition once patches required Impulse (right decision to do it this way) and the others purchased regular versions themselves. We have all purchased the micro-expansions and some have even repurchsed Trinity.

 

Quoting the_Monk,
who ponies up for 10 copies of game just to "play with some buds drinkin some buds!" ?

On a monthly basis, at least 25 people I know are either in, out, or around where I live playing 6-10player sins games. Heck, we do this with quite a few games. We like reaching over and punching people in the arm when they do something dastardly! The average age between us is about 19 by the way (I am over 24).

 

Quoting GoaFan77,
The only action I am demanding from Stardock is to email all preorderers that Rebellion will now require steam, as a change in DRM scheme is something they ought to know about.

Agreed. StarDock has a good reputation, they do not need a Sword of the Stars 2 (now that we have your money suprise! Steam!) style of debacle. Many pre-order players will likely respect this update on info for their pre-orders. It will also go a long way to NOT alienate many players simply to inform them of the change.

 

For our group, LAN is absolutely essential. We have no problem with each of us having to have a legit copy or not (steam offline-mode or not), it's not an issue. But, when we have 10 people at my place or a friends, LANing it up with Sins for 10-12 hours on a Saturday with movies on in the background, soda and beer in the fridge, etc ... and we have crap internet? Things quickly turn into a LAG fest and become unplayable. StarCraft 2, which did not support a native LAN simply could not be played in this setting when we tried. It was very disappointing. I haven't touched StarCraft 2 in over 3 months, largely because I do not enjoy the crazy 'click in 2 seconds or you lose the game!' multi-player. I like slower more friendly paced games, I can do that currently with SINS and enjoy it.

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February 22, 2012 1:14:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting the_Monk,
3.  I also believe due to the lack of any DRM at all that many, many and oh did I say many people chose to play SINS as a LAN-party game where a bunch of people get together share it around and get busy.

The question is: would those people have paid for the game if they had to?

I would bet (if only I were a betting man) that most of the people you refer to would not have bought Sins...if they couldn't have obtained it for free, they probably wouldn't have gotten it at all...that in no way makes their actions any more justified, but at least Stardock isn't "missing out" on some possible profit (or at least not very much)...

On the flip side, what positive benefits come from having no DRM?  I, like you, can only base this off of my own personal experience (which is likely more limited than yours)...

I was the first person in my group of friends to own this game....of course, despite my positive review of the game, none of them were willing to invest 40 dollars into getting the game and the expansions...so I let 6 (maybe 7, not sure) of my friends use my account on their computer to play this game at their leisure and see if they liked it...as of today, 3 of those 6 people decided they really liked this game and chose to buy Trinity...2 of those people still play with me and are likely to buy rebellion (one I think pre-ordered but he may cancel when he finds out it's on steam)...

Stardock's policy regarding DRM may have allowed 6 of my friends to play this game for free, but in doing so 3 of them became convinced to buy the game for themselves...I can tell you with a moral certainty that none of those people (who were all on low college-age budgets) would have ever been willing to risk $40 dollars without extensive exposure to the game...

Ultimately, a lack of DRM allowed one account to facilitate the sale of 3 Trinity versions...that's $120 Stardock would never have seen had Sins been implemented with a strict DRM.  Is this experience unique or commonplace?  I don't know...but if Sins had originally been released on Steam I know for a fact that I nor none of my friends would have ever even touched it...

EDIT:  Boshimi beat me to it with stories about even more people, so I know now I'm not alone in this! 

 

Now more on topic....

Sins right now is not predominately an online multiplayer game, but given the nature of the game I think it should be...though I know rebellion will change this, Sins gameplay is more conducive to human vs. human strategy showdowns than to an immersive single-player experience...as such, I think a focus on improving multiplayer is a good one....

Clearly Stardock will lose sales by this decision (as can be seen by all the people choosing to cancel their pre-order), but I think they will gain far more by improving the MP experience and making the game more accessible to that type of player...to be perfectly honest, Sin's SP is much weaker than its MP...compared to a game like Gal Civ II or Civ 5, Sins is severely lacking in the single player depth...this game (it seems at least) was meant to be a MP game and so I laud Stardock for doing everything they can to provide that audience with a fantastic MP experience....

Personally though, I'm pretty bummed about this steam deal...I was really looking forward to uninstalling impulse and getting to use Stardock Central again...and I just hope future titles that are more SP than MP (Gal Civ III, fingers crossed) don't become steam exclusive....I might have to curl up into the fetal position and cry a river or two if that occurs...

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February 22, 2012 4:37:27 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I can only say I don't care if its Steamworks, Origin, Impulse::Reactor, GfWL, homebrew or whatever...I want all my games to be service-enabled.

The old world of hunting for patches, buying DLC from seperate services, needing to have CDs every time you wanted to play something, and things usually not even working right at launch I am happier living without.

Although my internet improved massively recently, I don't do too much MP yet so I'm not as concerned about that side of things.  Not really a Sins gamer to begin with so there is that.  I'll probably pick it up on a good sale.

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February 22, 2012 5:10:19 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

My only worry with services is broadband caps.  It's quite likely that by this time next year, my only choice for an ISP that isn't heavily capped will be dial-up.

 

 

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February 22, 2012 6:03:03 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Alstein,
My only worry with services is broadband caps.  It's quite likely that by this time next year, my only choice for an ISP that isn't heavily capped will be dial-up.

 

 

 

How much can one possibly download in one month?  I mean, I have a 250GB / month cap.  Most months I don't even break 10GB and the only month I went higher was in Dec 2010 (over a year ago) when I downloaded several large games from STEAM and my wife rented several movies from iTunes.  That month we sat at a total download of about 32GB.  Seriously, I can't even imagine going over 50.....hehe

 

 

 

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February 22, 2012 6:28:20 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Monk, do be mindful that I do not host LAN parties, have cracks of any game, or feel that Sins will lose money on this move. I believe they will be successful. I just wish not to be part of it. Right or wrong is not my concern. I can only speak for my interests as I see them.

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February 22, 2012 6:28:28 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting the_Monk,
Quoting Alstein, reply 116My only worry with services is broadband caps.  It's quite likely that by this time next year, my only choice for an ISP that isn't heavily capped will be dial-up.


How much can one possibly download in one month?  I mean, I have a 250GB / month cap.  Most months I don't even break 10GB and the only month I went higher was in Dec 2010 (over a year ago) when I downloaded several large games from STEAM and my wife rented several movies from iTunes.  That month we sat at a total download of about 32GB.  Seriously, I can't even imagine going over 50.....hehe

 

Its easy to generate lots of traffic - my normal traffic is 1TB per month - only connections in this country still with data limit are mobile phone connections.

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February 22, 2012 6:33:38 PM from Elemental Forums Elemental Forums

Quoting the_Monk,

Quoting Alstein, reply 116My only worry with services is broadband caps.  It's quite likely that by this time next year, my only choice for an ISP that isn't heavily capped will be dial-up.

 

 

 

How much can one possibly download in one month?  I mean, I have a 250GB / month cap.  Most months I don't even break 10GB and the only month I went higher was in Dec 2010 (over a year ago) when I downloaded several large games from STEAM and my wife rented several movies from iTunes.  That month we sat at a total download of about 32GB.  Seriously, I can't even imagine going over 50.....hehe



 

 

 


You'd be surprised, especially if you watch the occasional TV show or sporting event over the internet.

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February 22, 2012 7:09:23 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Every single Charter internet package has an unlisted data transfer cap (with the exception of the top two tier connection of 65mb+ connections.

 

I am on a 3mbit down 0.3mbit up connection. There is a cap of 10gb per month on my broadband cable.

 

If for example I were running the Sword of the Stars 2 (really a beta), every patch ... well ... lets just say my internet would be capped at 100kb/s (which has happened before if I use it heavily with data transfers etc).

 

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February 22, 2012 7:11:31 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting Draakjacht,
I can only speak for my interests as I see them.

The same thing applies for me which is why I have posted the things I have.

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February 22, 2012 7:17:31 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,

 (though what I know about the Steam version of say Oblivion isn't encouraging)

Ummmm, what's wrong with Oblivion on Steam?  It's fully modable just like the non-Steam versions.  Heck, Bethesda even went back and patched up both Morrowind and Oblivion so that the Steam version were fully modable.  Skyrim also is fully modable and even has the new Steam Workshop built in.  Games these days aren't limited in terms of modding just because they are on Steam.  The devs just need a minor amount of forethought to not break modding in their Steam versions.  And if you build the game from the ground up with Steamworks in mind, well, modding ain't a problem.  The Sins devs said in the interview they hope to be able to support Steam Workshop for mods. 

So no, I don't think you have to worry about Rebellion not being modable.

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February 22, 2012 7:22:00 PM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

Quoting boshimi336,

For our group, LAN is absolutely essential. We have no problem with each of us having to have a legit copy or not (steam offline-mode or not), it's not an issue. But, when we have 10 people at my place or a friends, LANing it up with Sins for 10-12 hours on a Saturday with movies on in the background, soda and beer in the fridge, etc ... and we have crap internet? Things quickly turn into a LAG fest and become unplayable. StarCraft 2, which did not support a native LAN simply could not be played in this setting when we tried. It was very disappointing. I haven't touched StarCraft 2 in over 3 months, largely because I do not enjoy the crazy 'click in 2 seconds or you lose the game!' multi-player. I like slower more friendly paced games, I can do that currently with SINS and enjoy it.

 

Some of my fondest memories of gaming past took place at LAN parties.  I even helped organise/host some larger LANs (ie. several hundred people) which were by all accounts a great success.  Of course the ability to share games around as easily as we can these days has (in my opinion) caused many developers to disable LAN connectivity (or at least try to limit it by also requiring internet connectivity at the same time for authentication etc.) and therefore the number of current games one can effectively play at LAN parties (at least without too much "hacking around" trouble) has dwindled.

I guess I just wish if the potiental (which absolutely does exist) that STEAMWORKS integration might break these easily-slapped-together-LAN-events is an individual's reason for disliking STEAM in general; more of those individuals should come forward with that argument as opposed to some (whom I suspect feel that way but) who don't state that as a reason and simply jump on the "STEAM is evil and we hate it" bandwagon.  I know a few have made that reason known in other threads but if it's meant to be taken seriously the discussion needs to be entered into with the DEVS from the perspective of testing/trying to find a solution rather than immediate threat of boycott etc.

 

Just my thoughts.....

 

 

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February 22, 2012 7:33:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Monk largely I would agree with your comments to my post (not all but most). Would I love an alternative to Steam? You bet! I mean, hearing Frogboy's comments on Steam it kind of sounds like he's int he same boat as myself and a few others. The big issue with Rebellion is that form a cost input to content output it's kind of a no brainer. It makes sense but at the same time it sucks you know?

 

That all aside, I just have to re-iterate that we do not LAN because of crappy internet. We LAN because it's fun. A poor (but possibly funny) example is Super Bowl parties or sports parties in general. People get together, hang out, and do what they like to do. Imagine a sports party, where everyone is in their own living room with a video chat up watching it 'together'. It just doesn't seem that much fun to me.

 

For games like Sins, LAN parties for our crew is the way we get our kicks with this game.

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