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Please DEVS, Make Maps for MP Ladder

By Draakjacht on April 12, 2012 2:44:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Draakjacht

Join Date 07/2008
+174

I request, on behalf of the multi-player community, that the devs create a group of maps that would allow for a ladder competition, formal or otherwise, to be conducted. These maps would have to be symmetrical in every sense, including phase lane lengths, planet types, resource count, militia numbers, etc. I do not believe it would require a large number of maps to satisfy the MP desire and these maps could have the label [LADDER] on the end to make them clear.

I hope to receive a reply concerning whether devs hope to include such a feature or not.

Thank you.

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Reply #1
DirtySanchezz
Join Date 03/2008
+90
April 12, 2012 2:51:43 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I can make maps like that and have, but as far as I know there's no way to control how many resources are on a planet or at a neutral gravity well.

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Reply #2
Draakjacht
Join Date 07/2008
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April 12, 2012 2:54:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That's why I'm asking the devs to do it, those who have tools more suited to the task.

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Reply #3
Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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April 12, 2012 2:56:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

with mods it is indeed possible to fix resources, milita counts, and planet bonuses.

 

but it is BS that the community would have to make a mod for pro matchs.

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Reply #4
Yottsu
Join Date 01/2011
+16
April 12, 2012 2:56:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I really like this idea, currently, even playing premade maps can cause fairness issues. For example, when a few friends and I were playing Grindstone, one of my friends had to deal with a desert planet that had three bars worth of militia while I had the least possible amount of militia on my desert planet. Obviously, I had a tremendous advantage.

What I truly would like to see is this idea implemented but with random maps.

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Reply #5
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
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April 12, 2012 2:58:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

DLC material. 10$. If they have time.

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Reply #6
MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
+18
April 12, 2012 3:01:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I just think maybe give galaxy forge more control over the militia count/resource count would be a nice addition as well. These are things that should have been in the game.

 

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,
reply 5
DLC material. 10$. If they have time.

 

Balance maps are definitely things that should already be in the game. Not as a DLC.

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Reply #7
Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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April 12, 2012 3:04:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

seriously. its the easiest thing ever. make a second GALAXYSCENARIODEF file and an extra file for each planet type, and put an option to switch between "standard" and "turny" modes right under the allied victory button.

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Reply #8
Draakjacht
Join Date 07/2008
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April 12, 2012 3:05:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm not concerned with the details of its release, DLC or otherwise. I just wanted to get another argument over with by making it bold and clear so the devs notice, make a call, and slam the gavel.

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Reply #9
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
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April 12, 2012 3:05:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting MayallCommunion,
reply 6
I just think maybe give galaxy forge more control over the militia count/resource count would be a nice addition as well. These are things that should have been in the game.

 


Quoting Mecha-Lenin, reply 5DLC material. 10$. If they have time.

 

Balance maps are definitely things that should already be in the game. Not as a DLC.

Read few recent dev posts and you'll understand my sarcasm.

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Reply #10
Draakjacht
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April 12, 2012 3:07:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,
reply 9
Read few recent dev posts and you'll understand my sarcasm.

I made the same observation in what I'm sure was the same post.

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Reply #11
MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
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April 12, 2012 3:09:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,
reply 9

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 6I just think maybe give galaxy forge more control over the militia count/resource count would be a nice addition as well. These are things that should have been in the game.

 


Quoting Mecha-Lenin, reply 5DLC material. 10$. If they have time.

 

Balance maps are definitely things that should already be in the game. Not as a DLC.

Read few recent dev posts and you'll understand my sarcasm.

 

Sorry I didn't pick up the sarcasm I see what you are refering to now^^

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Reply #12
Rovert10
Join Date 06/2011
+12
April 12, 2012 5:33:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yes or at least allow us to make custom maps where we can choose the number of extractors and share them through ICO.

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Reply #13
Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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April 12, 2012 5:38:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

all they gotta do. is stick a toggle which when turned on points the game to different files. easy. really easy.

 

Like. these files would do: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/36550973/Turnymode.zip

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Reply #14
Draakjacht
Join Date 07/2008
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April 12, 2012 6:49:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Okay, then I would like the devs to either make us maps or make a preset for fixing map traits or make more detail galaxyforge tools.

cool?

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Reply #15
Sonntagshut
Join Date 04/2009
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April 15, 2012 6:47:46 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ok nice Idea but... How do you plan to make maps equally useful for all the 3 races, as all of them will need a different amount of resources for their ships and techs.

A starting point thats working fine for TEC will be alot worse for an advent player, as advent will need alot more crystal than TEC, as vice versa TEC will need more metal than advent.

 

So basically if you will answer "just have as much of anything" you will automatically favor Vasari, as those need less metal than TEC but more crystal, and the other way around with Advent.

The only way to be able to deal with this, would be to have a set starting layout for each race, which would need to placed according to the race chosen.

 

If you won't do that, it's as good as any map you can create in the forge.

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Reply #16
MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
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April 15, 2012 12:23:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sonntagshut,
reply 15
Ok nice Idea but... How do you plan to make maps equally useful for all the 3 races, as all of them will need a different amount of resources for their ships and techs.

A starting point thats working fine for TEC will be alot worse for an advent player, as advent will need alot more crystal than TEC, as vice versa TEC will need more metal than advent.

 

So basically if you will answer "just have as much of anything" you will automatically favor Vasari, as those need less metal than TEC but more crystal, and the other way around with Advent.

The only way to be able to deal with this, would be to have a set starting layout for each race, which would need to placed according to the race chosen.

 

If you won't do that, it's as good as any map you can create in the forge.

 

Thats just how RTS's are sometimes, lots of maps favor different races because of their innate traits. Look at sc2 for example, certain maps with cliffs favor terran because of how retarded siege tanks are. Nothing can be done about that.

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Reply #17
Sonntagshut
Join Date 04/2009
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April 15, 2012 12:42:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting MayallCommunion,
reply 16

Thats just how RTS's are sometimes, lots of maps favor different races because of their innate traits. Look at sc2 for example, certain maps with cliffs favor terran because of how retarded siege tanks are. Nothing can be done about that.

Oh don't misunderstand me, I really like the idea to actually be able to make maps in the forge that are somewhat less random. But I don't think Sins is the right game for ladder play, as there are quite alot of things that would need to have a better balance. The 6 actual races will be quite hard to balance too.

Also you're mentioning SC2, never played multiplayer there, but back in WC3, maps were actually really balanced I think. Maybe due to the lack of siege tanks .

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Reply #18
Pbhead
Join Date 12/2008
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April 15, 2012 12:53:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

SIns is almost literally warcraft 3 in space.

 

think about it. hero units... going after mobs to level up... shared exp... each unit very important...

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Reply #19
MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
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April 15, 2012 1:02:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sonntagshut,
reply 17

Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 16
Thats just how RTS's are sometimes, lots of maps favor different races because of their innate traits. Look at sc2 for example, certain maps with cliffs favor terran because of how retarded siege tanks are. Nothing can be done about that.

Oh don't misunderstand me, I really like the idea to actually be able to make maps in the forge that are somewhat less random. But I don't think Sins is the right game for ladder play, as there are quite alot of things that would need to have a better balance. The 6 actual races will be quite hard to balance too.

Also you're mentioning SC2, never played multiplayer there, but back in WC3, maps were actually really balanced I think. Maybe due to the lack of siege tanks .

 

As PB said this game is actually alot like WC3:p

And the Six race things, have you ever seen Dawn of War:p?

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Reply #20
Draakjacht
Join Date 07/2008
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April 15, 2012 5:59:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Okay, I'm okay with the comparison with Dawn of War, but I hated WC3. I thought the heroes were too much compared to the units. I think Sins makes better use of cruisers versus caps than WC3 did soldiers versus heroes.

Nevermind, that's not the argument.

I'm not saying I want perfection and I'm not saying to take away other maps, especially the random maps. I'm just asking if the devs can, to avoid arguments like this, make absolutely static maps for people who want to attempt ladder play. I'm not a player of such games, but am just trying to get the devs' attention for the sake of others.

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Reply #21
NovaStalker
Join Date 01/2006
+1
April 15, 2012 7:33:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Perfectly symmetrical maps sounds incredibly boring. Surely ladder matches would be more interesting with bonuses thrown in. I'd agree that there shouldn't be anything purely negative but bonuses would mix things up.

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Reply #22
Mecha-Lenin
Join Date 02/2006
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April 15, 2012 9:24:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

100% mirror maps are fine for TEC vs Advent (depending on size), but imba for Vasa vs TEC/Advent. Vasari neut control is factored in ship balancing, so static X neuts/side is favouring other race.

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Reply #23
MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
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April 15, 2012 9:26:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Mecha-Lenin,
reply 22
100% mirror maps are fine for TEC vs Advent (depending on size), but imba for Vasa vs TEC/Advent. Vasari neut control is factored in ship balancing, so static X neuts/side is favouring other race.

 

What would be a way around this do you think?

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Reply #24
SithLordAJ
Join Date 04/2008
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April 15, 2012 10:13:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I, for one, would rather Sins stayed away from 'tournament play'. However, I am always willing to discuss ideas and see the value of this thread.

Quoting MayallCommunion,
reply 23

What would be a way around this do you think?

Maybe... having all neutral extractors grouped together in a limited number of places? This would allow Vasari to grab them early so they can afford things, but other races know where they are and can send units there to remove them. now, it's up to the fleet presence there. Meanwhile, Vasari have taken other worlds and can get along without the extra extractors

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Reply #25
MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
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April 15, 2012 10:25:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting SithLordAJ,
reply 24
I, for one, would rather Sins stayed away from 'tournament play'. However, I am always willing to discuss ideas and see the value of this thread.


Quoting MayallCommunion, reply 23
What would be a way around this do you think?

Maybe... having all neutral extractors grouped together in a limited number of places? This would allow Vasari to grab them early so they can afford things, but other races know where they are and can send units there to remove them. now, it's up to the fleet presence there. Meanwhile, Vasari have taken other worlds and can get along without the extra extractors

 

Well as a way to maybe reason with you a bit more on the issue. Tournament play actually helps increase a games play ability. With tournaments comes pro's, with pros comes livestreams, and ways to help newer players interact with the game more. This will defined help with this games steep learning curve and help bring in new players.

 

More players = more funding = better products and maybe better matchmaking.

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