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Rebellion Manual: Typos and Suprising Lore Additions

By on June 17, 2012 3:14:52 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008
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So aside from a typo in the Ankylon, some bad grammar/missing words periodically (seriously, this really needs to be proofread), and calling the Rankulas's ability Reassemble "Greater Nanite Swarm," I in particular noticed a few things about the Vasari...

1. The Vasari titans are ancient ships that were presumably flagships from the Dark Fleet.  This goes back to their titan factory appearance.  They look like super-phase gates because that's what they are.  The titan foundry for the Vasari really is a a super-gate.  Since the titans already exist prior to the fall of the Vasari Empire, one can assume that the research performed to get them to your current position isn't research to build them but rather research to get them there.  They're probably hundreds of light years away and by the calculations someone once did, default phase travel is a low multiple of light-speed (ranging from between 1-16c) with phase gates improving this to 1.4 to 22.4c.  The super-gates that transport the titans then would have to have some sort of new hyper-advanced phase gate system, one that is too expensive to deploy on a wide range, but one that is capable of transporting ships between system gravity wells as opposed to traditional gates which are only within the same system.

Because of the schism within the Exodus fleet, the VL presumably didn't want to bother with them after they got the Vorastra.  The VR on the other hand probably are applying this to their starbases which is what is allowing them to jump.  Given that Skirantras are built freshly and still use outdated designs and the titans at least have the latest systems, we can assume that they have been heavily retrofitted, so Gravity Pulse is probably an extension of this as well.

 

2.  The Vorastra has a relatively small crew compliment.  Despite being a mobile capital, its crew compliment is only 35,000.  I was expecting something on the order of 350,000.  Compare this with the significantly smaller and less massive Kultorask which has a compliment of 33,000.  Perhaps the crew compliments don't include civilians though..  Idk..  Regardless, it struck me as odd.  For comparison though, the Coronata has 8,000 aboard it, so effectively the same as a modern-day aircraft carrier.

Presuming that those numbers do include civilians, that would infer that the Vasari are a very slowly reproducing race which seems odd given that they are cloners.  This seems to suggest then that they are willing to clone but have some moral issues with the process, reserving it only for certain positions, such as those of capital command crews.  It also suggests that they are actually quite a small remnant of the original Empire.  If you're "capital" only has 35,000 people in it, you're entire civilization isn't going to be very large.  It appears then that the Vasari are in fact doomed in a war of attrition because they don't reproduce fast enough to have a sufficiently high population.

Alternatively, it is possible that thousands of years of running have led to the development of social norms requiring minimal children due to limited resources and space aboard ships.  In either case, it paints a very interesting picture of the Vasari.  Opposed to the presumably hundreds of billions (or perhaps trillions) in the TEC, the Vasari might only be in the hundreds of thousands.

 

3.  Gravity Pulse is the low setting.  Nano Leech, Nano Remit, and Dissever may be the super-advanced nanites of the Kultorask, but Gravity Pulse appears to be the low setting on the Kultorask's gravity generator.  The manual says that it can literally tear other ships apart at maximum power.  Why this ultimate nuke isn't available in-game is anyone's guess, but it is mentioned in the manual.

 

4. Most surprising of all and most different from what we thought until now, the VR aren't interested in standing and fighting.  They want to keep running but want to take the Advent and TEC with them.  They don't want to make a final stand against the chasers.  They just want the other races to come with them.  They don't want a Trinity Alliance to stand and fight.  They want a Trinity Alliance to help them as they run.

This helps to explain from a lore standpoint why the VR have jumping Orkies.  They aren't a defensive race.  They're a fleeing race just as before.  The difference is that they're trying to be considerate of the capabilities of the TEC and Advent as they bring them along.  Yeah, they could go fully mobile, but they believe it's in their best interest to bring the others along.  This also suggests that the VL aren't as cold-hearted as suggested.  They simply wish to keep running immediately while the VR appear to either have some sense of empathy or self-preservation making them want to take the other races along.

This in turn means that if the VR succeeds in bringing the AR and some of the TL with them, as they're on their way, they'd probably receive messages from the TR and AL about the chasers, which means that the TL and AR that elect not to go with the VR will probably get wiped out.  Perhaps then the Trinity Alliance would turn back to try to stand and fight, but at this point at least, they are only interested in running.

This sets up Sins II interestingly.  The Vasari would likely not even be a playable race as the entire Exodus Fleet would be long on its way out of dodge.  That would mean then that the main races would be the AL, TR, and the chasers themselves.

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June 17, 2012 3:32:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

wait there is a manual for rebellion?? lol

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June 17, 2012 3:48:56 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Read the manual on the day of release. The VR in the intro are called outcasts so the VL are not indifferent to the VR, they look down on them but are not openly hostile. VL and VR probably do not fight due to their low population.

The crew size of Vasari capital ships and Titans could simply include all military personnel as well as civilian authorities but not the general public or any of the countless slave races that may have came along.

I do not think that the Vasari Titans have necessarily been retrofitted. It is perfectly possible that the Vasari didn't really improve their military tech at all in 10,000 years and that the Titans were the most recent designs from before the exodus. Suffering such a huge hit in population size may have stagnated advancement and they may only recently have regained the ability to make new designs.

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June 17, 2012 7:58:02 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, I wrote this before going to bed last night and remembered that the opening cinematic said that as I was laying in bed but didn't want to fix it until I woke up.

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June 17, 2012 8:29:43 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Nice write up Volt.  Really interesting.  Your perspective on the VR relation to the other races is pretty much supported by the diplomatic relations and entity files.

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June 17, 2012 10:20:22 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

  soo much thinking and make believe.

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June 17, 2012 8:30:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Just because they can clone doesn't mean that it makes sense for them to multiply willy-nilly.  The Vasari may be reproducing slowly because of their nomadic history.  They simply can't put down too many roots because they know they'll have to move on at some point.  They could be trying to maintain an optimum steady state, just enough to keep the race moving and absorb war losses.  

Your alternative makes more sense to me.

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June 17, 2012 8:33:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Removed due to ninja edit.

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June 17, 2012 10:25:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

They're probably hundreds of light years away and by the calculations someone once did, default phase travel is a low multiple of light-speed (ranging from between 1-16c) with phase gates improving this to 1.4 to 22.4c.

What calculations?

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June 17, 2012 10:33:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Someone once calculated an approximation of how fast phase travel is (I forget who, it was last year IIRC) by considering the fact that they've been running for 10,000 years and the distance between the sun and the center of the galaxy.  The variation was due to the fact that we don't know how long if at all they stopped at each place along the way and we don't know how close the Vasari and TO were together prior to the fall of the empire.

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June 17, 2012 11:04:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
  soo much thinking and make believe.

Yet you play a space game and post random nonsense daily.

Wait...that's me.

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June 17, 2012 11:28:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

K...might have been SithLord...he'd take the time to do that...

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June 18, 2012 12:36:06 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I doubt Sins 2 will remove the Visari, the intro makes it clear the VR have the right idea.  Sins 2 will likely be VR plus whoever came with them, with those who stayed getting wiped out or mostly wiped out by the unnamed threat.  The remaining trinity will have to make a stand or likely get a macguffin to fight the 4th race.  VL might show up if they think the trinity actually has a hope in hell of winning.

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June 18, 2012 12:55:37 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
K...might have been SithLord...he'd take the time to do that...

Did he take into account rest breaks?

There i go, bringing in inconvenient variables again.

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June 18, 2012 1:26:47 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, I asked because I was really hoping someone wasn't just going to be like "Well it takes 3 minutes to jump from planet A to planet B which I guesstimate to be x LYs so speed is blaaahhhhh"....

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June 18, 2012 12:46:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I can make the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs.

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June 18, 2012 12:48:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Don't even get me started...

Next you'll be chiming about how stars can be green...

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June 18, 2012 1:12:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinperium,
I can make the Kessel run in under 12 parsecs.

 

 

Actually, it was a true statement,(me being a huge Star Wars nerd), The Kessel Run is actual around 18 parsecs, but by skirting the nearby "Maw" (a clustfuck of black holes), he was able to do it in 11.5 parsecs.

It was an indirect relation to make it seem like his ship was so fast it broke all logic and space, to impress Luke/Kenobi, but it actually referred to the advanced navigation computer on his ship, allowing his system to calculate MUCH faster routes than other ships could.

 

 

Anyways.

 

Great job on this. I never realized any of this.

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June 18, 2012 1:39:22 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Nice assessment Volt.  Good clarification Shamrock.

HAN FIRED FIRST!

I rather had the idea that the Vasari did accelerated cloning through nanotech, but also had billions of eggs like roaches.  Some die, activate the eggs, accelerate them, program their skill, send them on out.

Finally, some color pictures in the manual!

They screwed up on the Aeria, Iconus, domina, Solanus, progenitor, coronata, eradica, ruiner pics

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June 18, 2012 1:47:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ,

Presuming that those numbers do include civilians, that would infer that the Vasari are a very slowly reproducing race which seems odd given that they are cloners.  This seems to suggest then that they are willing to clone but have some moral issues with the process, reserving it only for certain positions, such as those of capital command crews.  It also suggests that they are actually quite a small remnant of the original Empire.  If you're "capital" only has 35,000 people in it, you're entire civilization isn't going to be very large.  It appears then that the Vasari are in fact doomed in a war of attrition because they don't reproduce fast enough to have a sufficiently high population.

Alternatively, it is possible that thousands of years of running have led to the development of social norms requiring minimal children due to limited resources and space aboard ships.  In either case, it paints a very interesting picture of the Vasari.  Opposed to the presumably hundreds of billions (or perhaps trillions) in the TEC, the Vasari might only be in the hundreds of thousands.
 

4. Most surprising of all and most different from what we thought until now, the VR aren't interested in standing and fighting.  They want to keep running but want to take the Advent and TEC with them.  They don't want to make a final stand against the chasers.  They just want the other races to come with them.  They don't want a Trinity Alliance to stand and fight.  They want a Trinity Alliance to help them as they run.

This helps to explain from a lore standpoint why the VR have jumping Orkies.  They aren't a defensive race.  They're a fleeing race just as before.  The difference is that they're trying to be considerate of the capabilities of the TEC and Advent as they bring them along.  Yeah, they could go fully mobile, but they believe it's in their best interest to bring the others along.  This also suggests that the VL aren't as cold-hearted as suggested.  They simply wish to keep running immediately while the VR appear to either have some sense of empathy or self-preservation making them want to take the other races along.

This in turn means that if the VR succeeds in bringing the AR and some of the TL with them, as they're on their way, they'd probably receive messages from the TR and AL about the chasers, which means that the TL and AR that elect not to go with the VR will probably get wiped out.  Perhaps then the Trinity Alliance would turn back to try to stand and fight, but at this point at least, they are only interested in running.

One problem the Vasari may have with cloning is that genetically, they would stagnate as a race. I feel that the Vasari would limit cloning only for their completely irreplacable members of their society. They are a race that hugely relies on genetic manipulation, so widescale cloning would not give the Vasari enough genetic diversity, so to speak.

From the in-game pictures, the Vasari as a whole are extremely diverse, one of the most diverse races I've seen in a fictional setting! I'd imagine that this was one of their greatest strengths in that they have a lot of potential they can pass on to their offspring.

The split between the Vasari Loyalists and Rebels became more interesting because of their common goal. I actually think the key difference between the two is how they percieve the other races, particularly TEC. The Vasari are a race obviously unused to serious opposition, so the thirty-year war against TEC may have shaken the foundation of their society (As a haughty, dominating empire). I think that the Vasari Loyalists are utterly terrified of TEC. The Traders apparently the only race that the Vasari could not conquer, and actually are bringing the Vasari on the verge of defeat! From how I see it, the Loyalists are just completely desperate, abandoning everything and trying to break a path through TEC or the Advent to get out of Trader Space.

In contrast, the Vasari Rebels probably view TEC with more respect for their ability as adversaries. After all, they are the only race to ever stand against the Empire and remain independant. I'd imagine that the Rebels are completely abandoning the ideal of a renewed Vasari Empire, as their idea of racial superiority has been thoroughly disproved by the Trade Order. So I'd see the Rebels as trying to make a genuine alliance with TEC and the Advent that will ultimately keep the three races alive.

Overall, the Vasari are obviously a race not used to defeat. Their empire easily expanded, and the small remnants of the empire still managed to conquer every race in their path. The opposition by the Trade Order complely broke their racial psyche; the Loyalists are now running for the lives, and the Rebels are much humbler and willing to cooperate.

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June 18, 2012 4:40:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Where do you get the crew numbers from? I don't recall seeing them in the manual.

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June 18, 2012 5:06:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Nevermind...

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June 18, 2012 5:27:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wow just rechecked the manual... found the crew stats... epic fail.

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June 18, 2012 5:33:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ,

This in turn means that if the VR succeeds in bringing the AR and some of the TL with them, as they're on their way, they'd probably receive messages from the TR and AL about the chasers, which means that the TL and AR that elect not to go with the VR will probably get wiped out.  Perhaps then the Trinity Alliance would turn back to try to stand and fight, but at this point at least, they are only interested in running.

 

Dingdingdingidngding!!!!

 

 

 

Espically, if the warning....

 

                is true!!

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June 18, 2012 5:34:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Crew numbers? Is that stat ingame? No? Kthxbai

 

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