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Extremely Aggressive AI

By on June 27, 2012 3:54:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

W1SE_9UY

Join Date 10/2009
0

Okay, so I've been playing Sins for a long time now, and just picked up Rebellion the other day. The problem is, and this has never happened before in the entire time I've owned and played the game (2 or more years), I keep getting steamrolled by the EASY AI. I'm not the best player out there, but this is a little rediculous. Is there something I'm missing here or did they give the AI a huge upgrade from the original game to now?

 

I thought diplomacy and the like were supposed to be options here, but it seems like you can only put money into military upgrades in order to survive. The computer's usual fleet involves 4 or more capital ships supported by between 20 and 30 frigates, sometimes with a titan, after only 10 minutes or so of normal un-accelerated time... is this a glitch or is it normal?

 

Any constructive advise would be appreciated.

 

EDIT: And yes the AI is set at Easy...  

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June 27, 2012 3:58:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sounds to me like you're playing it on max difficulty. The easy AI shouldn't even attack you before like 30 minutes in-game.

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June 27, 2012 6:33:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Obvious Troll

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June 27, 2012 6:58:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

No, I'm having an issue that I would like some help with. I'm open to the idea that I just plain suck at the game , but after two years or so I figured I had a pretty good idea what the AI usually behaves like.

 

*shrugs*

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June 27, 2012 7:12:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Could you tell us a bit more about how you expand at the start of a game? So what techs do you research, what kind of labs do you build and how many planets do you colonize etc. This would make it easier for us to give you some useful advice.

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June 27, 2012 9:23:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I usually try and colonize anywhere from 4 to 6 planets right off the bat. I find that gives me enough resources/labs to get a decent fleet started. I tend to rely heavily on capital ships, and favor military techs over civilization techs initially. I try to get the high level armor and weapon techs early, and then start taking care of the low level civilization techs.

 

I will try to find two choke point planets where I can place most of my defenses and fleet. This usually stops the computer from breaking through, and I can take the time that buys to develop the behind the choke points. During this time I'll also scout out weak points and try to attack strategically to conserve resources and ships (this usually gets me another 2 to 4 planets while I build my strength).

 

Once that is done I'm usually near the end of both tech trees and own a good portion of the map. I start cranking out ships as fast as I can. I then divide into two fleets and begin chipping away at the enemy planets, then rinse and repeat until I win. I usually play Entrenchment and love using the Starbase as the centerpiece to my defensive strategy.

 

On Rebellion though, I get as far as starting to build a solid defense on my choke point planets before the computer hits me with between 20 and 50 upgraded ships (including 4 to 6 capital ships and sometimes a titan). I can usually hold off the initial assault, but I take so many casualties that it makes holding the choke point impossible. The computer will usually send a second, larger fleet against me before I can even rebuild half of my ships, to say nothing of the static defenses.

 

I want to learn what I'm doing wrong, because the strategy I described above has always served me well against low level computer players. I find it allows me to explore different ship combinations, attack strategies and late-game play styles. I'm admittedly not very good at the "run and gun" style the game seems geared towards, but think I can learn with a little advice.

 

Thanks!

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June 27, 2012 9:26:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I see your problem. You seriously underestimating the amount of time you've spent in-game before the computer attacks.

From your description, you're looking at more of an hour into the game than ten minutes, if not more.

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June 27, 2012 9:39:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I guess that would make sense. I try to only use the speed-up option when I have nothing that I have to micro-manage, but maybe that's part of my problem.

 

What would you recommend as far as a strategy?

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June 27, 2012 10:03:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you're going to play defensive while you slowly upgrade to maximum strength then start pumping out ships, I think it's better to begin with civilian labs in order to get your economy rolling faster rather than military. All you really need early game for an effective defense are repair platforms and turrets with the occasional ship support.

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June 27, 2012 11:16:23 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'll give it a try, thanks.

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June 27, 2012 11:22:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting W1SE_9UY,
I usually try and colonize anywhere from 4 to 6 planets right off the bat. I find that gives me enough resources/labs to get a decent fleet started.
Well here it goes: First off, colonizing the planets close to your homeworld is a good idea. You like to colonize up to six planets, and I approve. The only tip I can give you here is that you might want to skip on ice -and volcanic planets in order to quickly colonize asteroids, dwarf planets or terran / desert worlds that form a strategic choke point (where a lot of phase lanes lead to a single gravity well). You can colonize those later after you have set up some simple defenses (often two repair bays and a single Gauss turret will suffice in the early stages of the game) on the most critical choke points near you. Try to make sure the enemy cannot flank you easily; Prioritize. Also, immediately take all the neutral extractors (those in plasma storms and such) as soon as possible. They will give you a lot of extra income which you will need.

I tend to rely heavily on capital ships, and favor military techs over civilization techs initially. I try to get the high level armor and weapon techs early, and then start taking care of the low level civilization techs.
The best way to start (this is what I do in multilayer games, but it also works extremely well against the AI) is with one military and one civillian lab. After colonizing your first asteroid immediately build a civillian lab on it. Always upgrade your planets' civillian infrastructure to the point where you don't have to pay underdevelopment tax rates. Not further than that, though. Save your resources. The first two things you research (I am assuming you play TEC mostly, they are a good faction to train the basics with) are the metal income upgrades and corvettes. At the start of the game, build a colonizer capital ship and a few light frigates (A single colonizer frigate is also useful, it can take a single asteroid or planet on its own without military support. Ignore the militia present in the asteroids' gravity well, colonize it, jump out the frigate and build a single gauss turret right next to the planet to block off the enemy Krosov seige frigate. The Krosov will turn around but stay in range because the Ai is too dumb to move it far enough away from the turret, and it will be torn apart without you having to waste frigates and time on it, same goes for the remaining Cobalt). After that, spam corvettes and upgrade your fleet supply with the first level. NEVER BUILD MORE THAN 1 CAPITAL SHIP AT THE START OF A GAME. Really, those things are cannon fodder without a supporting fleet. Just build your second capital ship (and eventually maybe even a third one) once you got enough resources and aren't fighting off a wave of enemies. Build it only when your first capital ship reached a high enough level so that it is not hindered by the second capital ship, which will snitch experience points when present in the same gravity well as the first one.

I will try to find two choke point planets where I can place most of my defenses and fleet. This usually stops the computer from breaking through, and I can take the time that buys to develop the behind the choke points. During this time I'll also scout out weak points and try to attack strategically to conserve resources and ships (this usually gets me another 2 to 4 planets while I build my strength).
Never upgrade a planets' defensive slots early in the game. Only do this when you have the resources to spare in the middle stages of the game. Raiding enemy asteroids and the like with a strike team of about 20 corvettes is always a good idea. Target constructors and factories first, try to cripple the enemies' economy. Don't waste your time on defensive structures, your main fleet can take those out.

Once that is done I'm usually near the end of both tech trees and own a good portion of the map. I start cranking out ships as fast as I can. I then divide into two fleets and begin chipping away at the enemy planets, then rinse and repeat until I win. I usually play Entrenchment and love using the Starbase as the centerpiece to my defensive strategy.
Playing defensively is good, but don't exaggerate. Only build starbases when absolutely necessary since they soak up a lot of resources. Equip them with Big Red Button or Mass Disorientation if you don't play Vasari. Always keep a good balance between civillian and military labs. Favor military slightly when you are in a frontline position on the map. Always think twice before upgrading your maximum fleet capacity. More fleet -> more taxes -> less income. Do it when you need to overcome a fortified enemy world which you cannot bypass or cripple with your current fleet, for example.

Finally I got you some general tips:

  • Know your counters! use light frigates against flak, flak against corvettes and strike craft spam, long range frigates against light frigates and corvettes against light frigates and cruisers. Spam utility cruisers to beef up your fleet and help the lighter ships survive.
  • Never build a (Kol) battleship as first capital (a Dreadnaught or Corsev will do fine if you know how to handle them though). They should always be second cap or even third choice.
  • Only upgrade planet health when you need to delay the enemy fleet once you cannot possibly take back the planet with your current fleet.
  • Keep a few planetary bombardment frigates near your main fleet. use them to bomb a secondary planet that isn't defended to distract the enemy. Bomb while in battle as well. When the enemy loses an upgraded planet it hurts him a lot, even when you didn't manage to win the battle with your fleet.
  • Don't spend too many resources on research. Keeping all of your fleet supply in use is top priority. Research only the technologies that are most useful to you, skip those that don't instantly give you an edge.

I sincerely hope these tips will help you out in your future games of Sins Rebellion!

Jesus Christ I cannot believe I just wrote all that...

 

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June 27, 2012 11:30:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting W1SE_9UY,
I tend to rely heavily on capital ships

 

And there is your problem.

 

Caps have horrible DPS. Treat them like support ships even the combat based ones.

 

Caps are nothing without a fleet, defenses are nothing without a fleet. I had an game online, Not PvP, who someone built nothing but Caps...it didnt work at all.

 

This game at its very core is about your fleet. Dont forget that. Everything you do from economy to research to even diplomacy is all to buff your fleet.

Alot of good tips above posts.

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June 27, 2012 11:38:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Once you can handle the AI pretty well, I recommend trying multiplayer. I know a lot of people are hecitant to do so but believe me, it broadens your Sins experience unlike anything else!

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June 28, 2012 10:07:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wow... thanks for taking the time to write all that! I'll let you know how it goes...  

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June 28, 2012 11:53:19 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

<Me is a noob, so don't take advice from me over them pro's

 

Hmm, I usually am pretty capital focused as well, and I have won every match so far(Playing against normal) I only build(as Tec) in the beginning > Kol(I love it, you haters can go away, why is it hated anyway?) and 8 or so light frigs and a colonizer and am able to take every planet I encouter so far and pretty much got 4 capitals and a titan before I really start building non-caps. Unless I encountered and enemy fleet than I start crunching out the blob I also research civ tech first to around 5 and then start doing both of them.

Well that's just my experiences so far...

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June 28, 2012 3:15:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ezeltje299,
<Me is a noob, so don't take advice from me over them pro's

 

Hmm, I usually am pretty capital focused as well, and I have won every match so far(Playing against normal) I only build(as Tec) in the beginning > Kol(I love it, you haters can go away, why is it hated anyway?) and 8 or so light frigs and a colonizer and am able to take every planet I encouter so far and pretty much got 4 capitals and a titan before I really start building non-caps. Unless I encountered and enemy fleet than I start crunching out the blob I also research civ tech first to around 5 and then start doing both of them.

Well that's just my experiences so far...

 

The Kol is bad because its... well it's bad. It's a brick. Its abilities drain antimatter in seconds and then it's just a brick with slightly above average DPS. It does nothing to support your fleet except for flak burst.

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June 28, 2012 4:49:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Build and upgrade a starbase at your border planets and you should be able to weather pretty much any fleet the easy AI throws at you. 

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June 28, 2012 5:20:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting R3DT1D3,
Build and upgrade a starbase at your border planets and you should be able to weather pretty much any fleet the easy AI throws at you. 

 

Hell, well upgraded starbases backed by a full array of tactical defenses can take on a fleet of unfair and cruel AIs, Titan included.

Against human players though? Not so much, unless they don't use their brain before attacking.

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June 28, 2012 5:57:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You may want to adjust your faction to your playstyle. If you like captial ships, use Vasari Loyalists. If you move fast enough you will only need to build 6ish civ labs, then 4 cap ships will give you a nice income, and all the research labs you'll ever need and then some.

To be honest, I prefer lots of capital shps as well. They are not vulnerable to attrition early on, which is nice, but as others has noted, their damage output is lacking.

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June 28, 2012 6:04:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well the first game played using the repair platforms/turrets for defense instead of starbases, and not really using any capital ships, and it really worked... the difference was night and day! I managed to destroy the computer with almost no problems. There's a few small stylistic things that I need to iron out as far as adapting the advice to my play style, but I was shocked at how much easier it was when I wasn't trying to upgrade starbases right away and/or build a capital ship fleet. Frankly I feel a little stupid for not having realized any of that without having to be told...  

 

Thank you to everyone who's posted here... If anyone has any additional tips please feel free to share them!

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June 28, 2012 6:12:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

As a fairly good player at Sins overall (I have owned all of the expansions including rebellion and have spent more time playing this game than I care to think about) you need to shift your strategy. First off, playing defensive (especially as tec loyalists) is a fine concept, but how can you do that if you are focusing on all your military upgrades. Use you civilian labs. They are great assets and TEC get some of the best early game economic boosts (crystal and metal by level 2 and by level 3 you get an additional terran planet upgrade). I always start out by building 2 civilian labs first then 2 military labs on my homeworld. I upgrade my terran planet usually before I finish colonizing a planet. This gets you increasing your income. After I colonize a planet I upgrade its income to the max. Some may disagree with me but the sooner you do it the sooner it pays off. Also the investments help you later when you begin to feel pressure from the AI. After you upgrade that put a few upgrades into ships of your choosing (like corvets and flak frigates) and go for some hull and armor upgrades. This will allow your ships live longer. You should have only needed your colonizing cap up to this point so now reenforce it with the rest of your fleet. As you build a fleet try to keep researching your civilian and military trees WHILE expanding. Never stop expanding. You can turtle a bit to let all your ships recover their shields and hull back but no longer. You need to keep pressure on the AI so they have to dig in and they then don't have the resources to steamroll you. Also you should be always researching your titan as soon as you get the next military labs up (that means you should have 2 levels in titan research right away when your build your first 2 military labs) so you can be the first one to come out with a titan. I usually find whoever has it first can really put the hurt to anybody in the way (especially if you focus on their labs and trade ports as they have to reinvest in research and lose massive economic power. If you want to go a little slower, consider your culture. Although it sucks as a TEC player, it does give all your ships a boost as loyalists and that can be a surprisingly useful thing in an engagement. Just remember to try and find balance. Always have something researching and try to be the first one out with a titan. If you do those things you should be okay.

 

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June 28, 2012 6:13:32 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It works out really well. Especially once you research and get a titan. That makes up for your lack of damage output.

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June 29, 2012 2:42:33 AM from Stardock Forums Stardock Forums

I agree with the idea of early-game maximising of your income. it may slow your earliest ship productions but the added income gives you tremedous help in the mid-game regions, where resource income is one of the determinate factors of victory. defense should be limited to a hangar and/or few gun platforms at low-risk worlds and a sparing number of well-deployed starbases, usually only in places where you share a border with an enemy you can't immediately attack, generally because you are striking less defended prime targets. in most cases, defenses are only there to delay an encroaching fleet long enough for you to reinforce it.

Early on, corvettes are your friend. they mess up enemy capitols and blow up fighter squadrons that would otherwise give you a lot more problems.

Finally, adapt and try to roll with the punches. If you know what's coming before it gets there, defend yourself specifically against that threat. if they arrive unannounced, immediately start building forces tha will work against the fleet you see, because you will be facing them soon at another of your worlds unless you get lucky in your defense operations. being hit three times or more at one place is a good reason to invest in a starbase if all else fails.

Hope that helps,

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