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"This deal isn't working out for us."

Minidump

By on July 3, 2012 1:33:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Volt_Cruelerz

Join Date 06/2008
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Well, tonight I was playing a game versus Sel and about an hour in, I minidumped out.  We aren't sure what caused it, but we were getting a TON of rubberbanding (presumably due to ICO issues as the website was also laggy for a while).  The game would stop for minutes at a time before accelerating to 20x speed and we'd have thousands of credits from seemingly nowhere.

Eventually, I got the sound of a TEC voice saying "This deal isn't working out for us" and a minidump followed immediately. The only TEC ally I had was Sel and he hadn't quit or anything.

Anyone else detect anyone like this?

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July 3, 2012 4:35:43 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I haven't had the game minidump on me yet, but one thing I have noticed is that once I get pass about 3 hours of play on single player games, the game really starts to slow down in speed, to the point where it's about 30 to 40 minutes between autosaves (which are still set at the default 15 minutes blocks of game time).

I'm running on XP with 4GB memory,a 1 GB graphics card with all the update drivers and a 8GB set aside for paging files (and yes I know it's Vista and up on the specs). Hell I even dropped the video options to the lowest setting and reloaded the save game to see if that improved gameplay and it made no effect, the game still kept on dragging its arse at half speed.

I'm sorry to say this doesn't bode well for my option of Rebellion, at this rate I'll just stick to playing Diplomacy.

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July 3, 2012 5:00:25 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting greyseer,
I haven't had the game minidump on me yet, but one thing I have noticed is that once I get pass about 3 hours of play on single player games, the game really starts to slow down in speed, to the point where it's about 30 to 40 minutes between autosaves (which are still set at the default 15 minutes blocks of game time).

I'm running on XP with 4GB memory,a 1 GB graphics card with all the update drivers and a 8GB set aside for paging files (and yes I know it's Vista and up on the specs). Hell I even dropped the video options to the lowest setting and reloaded the save game to see if that improved gameplay and it made no effect, the game still kept on dragging its arse at half speed.

I'm sorry to say this doesn't bode well for my option of Rebellion, at this rate I'll just stick to playing Diplomacy.

 

I've found that not using mines helps alot For me the lag has gone drasticly down since I stopped using those things, and I've already had several minidumps in SP...Goddamn annoying :/

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July 3, 2012 6:54:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah just had a minidump myself... but was replying to the guy who had 40 minutes saves - Got the same issue here...

 

TBH I really think the game should still be in beta... "Works in progress" are just half finished works.

Why release something half finished ? There's a plethora of issues surrounding lots of the in-game mechanics, the fact that the engine needs replacing and the devs created a new game on an old engine could be overlooked if the mechanics weren't so shoddy.

 

 

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July 3, 2012 8:01:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, 1.01 and 1.02 were actually awesome, stable releases.  They just had terrible balance.  Now we have much better balance, but with it came instability.

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July 3, 2012 8:24:20 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I also minidumped what, maybe an hour after you?  I don't remember...and I have no idea why I minidumped either...

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July 3, 2012 9:00:08 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ,

Eventually, I got the sound of a TEC voice saying "This deal isn't working out for us" and a minidump followed immediately. The only TEC ally I had was Sel and he hadn't quit or anything.

This is pretty funny if you think of it as the PC speaking.

"This deal isn't working out for us" 

CTD

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July 3, 2012 9:31:18 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ezeltje299,

I've found that not using mines helps alot For me the lag has gone drasticly down since I stopped using those things, and I've already had several minidumps in SP...Goddamn annoying :/

I don't use mines at all, but the damn AIs seem to love them. I have to clear out at least 150 mines per planetary body that I assault. So the mines aren't the problem unfortunately. And I've never had this slowdown problem when playing Diplomacy.

 

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
Well, 1.01 and 1.02 were actually awesome, stable releases.  They just had terrible balance.  Now we have much better balance, but with it came instability.

Ok, I'm probably going to show my ignorance here regarding the development of Rebellion, so please forgive me if I'm completely wrong on the subject.

But I'm seriously getting the vibe that the Dev team has completely started from scratch when writing the coding for Rebellion.

If this is the case, then yes I'd expect there to be problem of this nature, but a heads up from the Dev team would have been nice too.

If this isn't the case, then the Devs need to go over the new/rewritten sections of code and find how it's conflicting with the original code.

 

One of the golden rules of game development whether it's video game or table-top gaming (which I've actually done abit of in the last few years), is that the testers should be trying at every available chance to break the game/system. Firstly to see how it breaks, secondly why it breaks, and finally what needs to be done in order to either stop or avoid it breaking the sameway in the future.

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July 3, 2012 9:44:07 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The code of the engine isn't itself new.  The Iron Engine got an update, but didn't start from scratch (otherwise, Rebellion would be coming out two years from now on a new engine with multithreading and 64bit).

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July 3, 2012 10:28:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
The code of the engine isn't itself new.  The Iron Engine got an update, but didn't start from scratch (otherwise, Rebellion would be coming out two years from now on a new engine with multithreading and 64bit).

Thank you for the info Volt, most appreciated.

But I was refering to the game coding and not the actual engine coding.

Did the Devs just rewrite and add to previous versions code to add new things and features? or did they start from scratch and rebuild the game around the original engine code? Is what meant in my reply.

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July 3, 2012 4:00:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting greyseer,
Did the Devs just rewrite and add to previous versions code to add new things and features? or did they start from scratch and rebuild the game around the original engine code? Is what meant in my reply.

I really have no idea what this means so I'll just blab about how the game works-ish and maybe that will help...

Each thing in the game has an associate entity file with it (a simple text file)...each planet, frigate, capital ship, starbase, planet structure, technology, ability, etc....each has its own .entity file...additionally, abilities (and occasionally other things) can utilize multiple buff files...

Then you have the effects, meshes, and textures...each 3D object requires a mesh (the "frame") and a texture (the 2D "art" that covers it)...effects also have their own things that they require...

Rebellion utilizes some things from the original, but it's mostly concepts and art that it is utilizing...here is an example of what I'm saying:  each planet entity file in rebellion has a section in it called "ruinDef" that specifies what happens when Stripped to the Core is used on that planet...you can't use your planet files from original sins, because they don't have this ruinDef section...so all the planet entity files are "new" in that they now include all the necessary lines that Rebellion requires...however, most of the stats are the same (and presumably copied) from vanilla...

Many entity files are like that...extra lines had to be added to the text files to accomodate for the new features of Rebellion, but it's not like every line of code was completely rewritten...the devs probably had a script editor just run through and add the new lines to their existing entity files...

There are 2 guesses I have for why these MDs are occuring...one is a memory leak, which can be the result of a weapon/ability particle effect or a poorly written ability...you won't necessarily get an error while the memory leaking is occuring, just a MD once you exceed the limitations on memory...an ability could be infinitely looping and applying infinite buffs, or a weapon effect could end up never "ending" as the "projectile" continues forever in space...each time the weapon fires, more memory is sucked up and the game eventually crashes...

There are other examples of these phenomenon and a whole host of other possible sources for MDs...

I don't know if this answers your question but I don't honestly know what you are asking...Rebellion is taking the old stuff and adding what needs to be added to pre-existing files...additionally, completely new files are needed for the new things that require  their own meshes, textures, entity files, or particle effects....

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July 3, 2012 4:21:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Game code is basically the same with some additions.

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July 3, 2012 4:34:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting mbar8,

quoting post
Eventually, I got the sound of a TEC voice saying "This deal isn't working out for us" and a minidump followed immediately. The only TEC ally I had was Sel and he hadn't quit or anything.


This is pretty funny if you think of it as the PC speaking.

"This deal isn't working out for us" 

CTD

Damn, even the Ai is dissatisfied with Rebellion. 

Stardock did what we modders do (except they've got source code access), we layer stuff over and see what blows up the game and try to fix errors.  Maybe the addition of that Easter Egg (what's chasing the Vasari) is the problem?  lol.

 

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July 3, 2012 7:46:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's not only driving the vasari crew insane, but also us! My god! Stardock is chasing them! We found it!

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