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What does the Revelation need to truly terrify her enemies?

By on July 10, 2012 8:18:34 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

stein220

Join Date 12/2008
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The Revelation is another capital ship that doesn't get enough good press.  

I guess the main complaint is with Guidance, and i've seen mods give Clairvoyance a secondary effect.  I like Volt's idea of increasing your own culture at a planet like the DE b/c the manual says the Revelation's power "occasionally finds benign use".

I haven't seen complaints about Reverie and I actually like the utlimate, Provoke Hysteria, which is the main reason to get the Revelation in my opinion.

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July 11, 2012 3:51:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Another option I thought of was what if Guidance was like a remote Overcharge?  It would go back to a single target ability but all Advent capital (and titan/starbase) abilities would have their normal versions and one that functions if Guidance is applied to them.  Eradica+Progenitor+2x Revelations.  Guided Chastic Burst + Guided Malice...  Imagine the carnage....  

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius,
That would work too.

It would make it a lot more useful then the current effect of the ability to say the least.

Of course, maybe if we pressured them into doing it, we could finally get some entity modifiers for weapon banks which I would absolutely love.  If not, that should work.

Quoting SemazRalan,
Make the Revelation a mothership.

Umm..  Wouldn't that be more likely to be the...  Progenitor Mothership?

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July 11, 2012 4:41:57 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
Umm.. Wouldn't that be more likely to be the... Progenitor Mothership?

I think what he's saying is that the revelation should be able to colonize planets with clairvoyance...

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July 11, 2012 4:45:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
I think what he's saying is that the revelation should be able to colonize planets with clairvoyance...

...  Umm..  Novalith+Clairvoyance=IWINBUTTON?

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July 11, 2012 4:47:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I was actually thinking the holy trinity of resource focus + matrydom + clairvoyance....but I'm not a pro so what do I know?

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July 11, 2012 7:37:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What if guidance just buffed illuminators so they ignored shield mitigation again?

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July 11, 2012 10:39:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

So I just had a thought.  Sure the advent in general don't have many ships that really benefit from increased cooldown rate, but they certainly have a few.

 

What if guidance were changed to the following:


Guidance: A single target allied ship gains 200/300/400/500%  increased ability cooldown rate for 3 seconds. 

AM cost: 55/60/65/70

Cooldown: 30 seconds



I know 200-500% sounds like an awful lot, but essentially with a 3 second duration it would come down to 6-15 seconds off each of the target's cooldowns over the next 3 seconds.  Regardless having the cooldown rate buff "bursted" in a very short time and applied only to a single key target would increase the usefulness of the ability a lot I think.


This would allow for guidance to essentially allow a targeted ships to have quick bursts of repeated ability use every so often.

 

Honestly the current model of moderate cooldown reduction doesn't really work because on average most advent ships don't really benefit from it.  But frankly the benefit of for example allowing an accompanying radiance to open the fight by casting detonate antimatter on two enemy capitalships rather then one in the first few seconds of combat could be immense(though doing so would require a high rank of guidance).

Other potent combos could include casting guidance on a Halcyon to allow it to cast TK push twice in quick succession(providing an alternative in AA to building 2 Halcyons) or casting guidance on your titan to hasten the next Unity mass or chastc burst.

 

 

Well perhaps would be difficult to balance, but would create some very interesting new synergies and would certainly be a way to make a cooldown rate buff useful even for the advent.

 

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July 11, 2012 10:47:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Interesting take on it...

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July 11, 2012 11:06:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This ability is really sub-standard. For 90AM you get to "maybe" decrease the AbilityCooldownRate "if" an affected ship casts an ability. And this all needs to happen in a 20/25/30/35 second period.

Does the cooldown rate only work while the buff is active? I.e. if an affected ship casts an ability before BuffAbilityGuidance expires, does it only get 1 second of cooldown or does it benefit from the decreased cooldown rate up front.

Regardless many of the abilities will just flat miss this heavy AM short duration buff because their own cooldowns will make it difficult for them to occur exactly when this buff happens.

This ability should probably just be a passive in it's current form.

Another option would be to make it passive and give a small buff to AntiMatterRestore Rate too.

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July 12, 2012 7:29:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've wondered that myself.

I'm not a big fan of it being passive because I already feel like the ship is too passive in battle.  It doesn't really do anything in combat..  It sits there and all it does actively is Reverie.

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July 12, 2012 7:46:43 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, the radiance and halcyon are no different...all they do is spam detonate AM and TK push...akkan is even worse since ion bolt isn't something you wantomly spam without some reason and continual micro...

I've already made my case and explained what I want to do with guidance, and making it a passive AoE is currently not my first choice...but if it were a passive AoE, that it was passive doesn't bother me...especially considering that with 4 ability levels, most caps now are only selecting 2 normal abilities (and many abilties are passive), most ships are going to be spamming the same ability....

 

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July 12, 2012 3:33:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Regarding the Radiance and Halcyon..  I changed the Radiance in RR by making Animosity something players would actually use.  As for the Halcyon, it does have a bunch of SC instead, so that probably somewhat makes up for it.

Also, people may want to bear in mind that all level 10 Revelations look like the following:

4 Reverie
3 Guidance
1 Clairvoyance
2 Provoke Hysteria 

Even making Guidance passive won't change it.  Clairvoyance is something to get for the sake of having at higher levels.  Not necessary, but a single point is basically obligatory.  This is also the reason that in RR, you have to get Clairvoyance to level 2 before it'll start spawning culture from the target planet.

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July 12, 2012 7:19:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
I was talking to Sel tonight..  One of the points he kept bringing up was just the idea that it can't really bomb until level 6 so there was an interesting proposal..  Scrap Guidance, bring (and nerf) Provoke Hysteria from an ultimate to a normal, move (and buff) Repulse from the Guardian to the Revelation and give the Guardian a new ability.  Unless we were to get the whole community behind such a change, I doubt it would even have a chance of occurring.

Let's say that it did though...

Let's star by moving PH.  Right now, it costs 150 AM and has a CD of 180/135 with the effect of dealing 1%/1.25% health and .75%/.8625% population per second for 40/50 seconds.  We'd have to change this to something like, say, 70 AM and a CD of 60/50.  Effect would be .75%/.85%/.95%/1.05% health and .5%/.6%/.7%/.8% population per second for 30/32/34/36 seconds.

Let's skip the Revelation's ult for a second and focus on the Guardian.  Let's make Repulse instead of being a movement tool, let's make it a channeled defensive ability that will be a different take on the same word, "Repulse."  Let's say that the ship projects a telekinetic shield around nearby owned units with a chance of deflecting incoming weapons fire.  Let's say that it increases the chance of all nearby non-SC ships chance to dodge by 7.5% with a startup AM cost of 50 and a sustain cost of 3 per second.  Less powerful than Repulse or Shield Projection, but it costs less AM to sustain and synergizes with Shield Restore and Shield Projection which are sure to be in use already.

As for the Revelation's ult...  That's where I think Repulse's current effect could fit nicely, or at least some supercharged variation of it.  Currently it drains 100 AM startup plus 4 AM/s sustained on with a 20 second cooldown.  All ships within a range of 5000 are thrown back.  Let's start with the basics of the idea..  We're having an ability which throws away enemy ships with massive amounts of force via a telekinetic field.  Well, if you got thrown backwards with a force that can chuck a titan from one side of a planet to the other, do you think you're going to enjoy the process?  I'm guessing no.  As such, let's throw some damage into this ability that we'll call "Expel."

-Expel-
Description: Using the immense power of the telekinetics aboard this ship, the Revelation is able to throw back enemy ships, crushing their hulls with the force.
Activation AM: 120/150
Sustain AM: 5 per seconds
Max Duration: 30/35 seconds
Cooldown: 85/75
Range: 6800/10000
Effect: 100/200 hull damage to corvettes, 200/400 hull damage to frigates, 500/700 hull damage to capitals, and 800/1200 hull damage to titans and repulses targets

 

The above may be OP, but mind you that is the first time I've bothered actually trying to think it through so feel free to adjust numbers.  If nothing else, if I ever make a mod where I differentiate loyalist and rebel capitals, the AR are getting this version of the Revelation.

Her ultimate is fine in my opinion. Keep it as is it makes her unique compared to the others. She has higher bombardment stats than the others right, maybe increase them a bit more to make her level 1 bombardment more potent. It will be a soft fix to her early game bombardment and not require anything drastic to be changed. Reverie is a good ability, Clairvoyance I think is not to bad but I like the idea of making it spread culture. Guidance needs to be scrapped, I don't see why it isnt. No matter how much they buff current guidance it just doesn't do anything for the Advent.   While I agree that it needs something, I do not think that it should deviate from the theme of bombardment to much.

Clairvoyance is actually a bombardment ability as it will let you scout forward any planets you want to attack. Reverie is kind of weird honestly. Honestly an AoE attack damage increase would benefit the Advent much more and keep in relation to the bombardment theme.

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July 12, 2012 9:15:45 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting MayallCommunion,
She has higher bombardment stats than the others right, maybe increase them a bit more to make her level 1 bombardment more potent.

I guess you mean by "the others right" as the other Advent capital ships as it has the worst bombardment damage of the siege capital classes.

The problem with Guidance is its pretty useless in it's current form and really could do something interesting for the Advent. 

I'd put the likely hood of this changing as very very low.

 

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July 13, 2012 12:39:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Kinda think this is all rubbish since this ship has a hideously Overpowered Stun that wins fleet battles and a game changing Intel ability but

Given me a little idea for a mod..

Move Provoke to level 0 ability, with 0.5/1/1.5/2% bomb damage

Then Make guidance a level 6 Ultimate, and... make it like overcharge but for other Advent caps.

Then a few small changes to some of the other caps ability so they buff there ability's when this hits, Battleships Detonate AM and Clensing can do more damage, Progen's Spread and shield buff can go up, more damage on carrier aoe etc etc...

 

it is called.... "guidance"  Guides other ships making there next ability more Potent! PEW PEW NINJA WIZARD BEARS!

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July 13, 2012 1:48:39 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Isn't what you just said a mashed version of my various ideas that you seem to be taking credit for?

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July 13, 2012 4:26:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

yea I just got home and read all the post....   it was a link from the Kol one, so I only read the first few

and yes does seem to be your idea, Great Idea

I just started messing about, to see what its like, I used the games Overcharge so far I have only gone for changing 1 ability per ship and only advent, and its an Aoe ability like the base one still.

Added 10/20 damage to all levels of Detonate Antimatter

Added always has Fracture to Psionic Scream (cause it was comically easy)

Added an extra 5/10% to malice

Added an Extra 10/20 damage to all levels of Telekinetic push

And Added an extra 30/50% to all levels of Vengeance

 

is that the kinda of thing you had in mind?

 

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July 13, 2012 11:15:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, that's basically what I had in mind.  DA deals bonus DPS/AM drain.  Malice would propogate more.  Fracture would do more armor debuff, etc.  You obviously already get the idea.

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July 14, 2012 11:34:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

How hard would that be to implement? Seems a little complicated.

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July 14, 2012 12:09:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hard?  Not at all.  Just time consuming.

In my private build of RR, I'm currently testing out Guidance acting as a general cooldown reduction buff, reducing cooldowns of bombing, weapons, and abilities.

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July 14, 2012 2:13:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
Hard?  Not at all.  Just time consuming.

In my private build of RR, I'm currently testing out Guidance acting as a general cooldown reduction buff, reducing cooldowns of bombing, weapons, and abilities.

 

The Halcyon already has an energy weapon cooldown (passive ability). Another question is if Guidance works on lvl6 abilities, I'm guessing it does. Cooldown of bombing I like, as that fits the Revelation's role as a siege cap.

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July 14, 2012 2:41:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What does the Revelation need to truly terrify her enemies?

Boarding parties of dominatrixes in black latex uniforms with implanted guns shooting from their nipples. An upgrade option would add poison needle bayonettas to them.

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July 14, 2012 2:51:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting CoronalFire,

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz, reply 45Hard?  Not at all.  Just time consuming.

In my private build of RR, I'm currently testing out Guidance acting as a general cooldown reduction buff, reducing cooldowns of bombing, weapons, and abilities.

 

The Halcyon already has an energy weapon cooldown (passive ability). Another question is if Guidance works on lvl6 abilities, I'm guessing it does. Cooldown of bombing I like, as that fits the Revelation's role as a siege cap.

True, but Guidance is an active and AEA is just energy weapons.

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July 14, 2012 4:23:23 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,


True, but Guidance is an active and AEA is just energy weapons.

Do the Advent have another kind? 

If you wanted to add other types to the Guidance, I think instead it would be better to do that to the Halcyon, and have guidance for bombing or abilities or something. If the Revelation did weapons cooldown you'd have redundancy or the uber pair of Revelation + Halcyon.

Perhaps you had something in mind for this?

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July 14, 2012 5:08:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

No, but they can capture enemy ships which have others.

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July 14, 2012 5:48:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
No, but they can capture enemy ships which have others.

I know, was just kidding. And allies have other types.

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