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Piskuftw
Join Date 07/2012
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Rebellion Vasari vs Advent

July 12, 2012 4:29:02 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Lately i've read alot diplo strategy topics and watched some diplo 1.34 replays. Where it seems advent are inferior(not tec vs advent), only cos vasari >>> advent so badly. As i see in replays only few play advent, mostly tec vs vasari battles. My question, is it same in rebellion? Fleet wise only, not including economy(strip core for VL) or jumping orkys for VR, just fleet vs fleet, PMs still rape advent totally?

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Piskuftw
Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #1 July 12, 2012 5:06:55 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, first, there is a bug with the Advent culture techs (the 2nd and 3rd levels) that actually increase the chance of all weapons bypassing shields or doing more damage or something really bad...so, if you researched those, Advent fleet is going to suck against anyone...

Advent fleet is probably strongest...malice and repulsion are still wicked abilities, but the Vasari overall are just so much better that it is hard to make a fair fleet comparison...

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Piskuftw
Piskuftw
Join Date 07/2012
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Reply #2 July 13, 2012 4:34:42 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

As i've seen malice + Chastic burst is awesome, but will advent titan even stay alive against vasari? Against tec or another advent u can have perma shield regen if theres enough AM for 2 or 3 motherships to spam shield regen, guardian bubble and repulsion and maybe Raptures vertigo. But against vasari these things give almost nothing, as shield regen is useless against mass PMs, dno about guardian bubble, PMs cant pass bubble right? Repulsion is kinda useless imo if enemy has LRFs and massive amount of bombers both with PMs cos LRFs outrange it and bombers are not affected by it. That only leaves vertigo and i dont rly know how good it is, i see it work against bombers but not against LRF's cos it has short casting range, have to move inside their fleet to cast it on LRFs. And if i cast vengeance on titan to protect it from focus fire, bombers can still attack it without getting much dmg back (or not?).

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Seleuceia
Join Date 01/2008
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Reply #3 July 13, 2012 6:15:01 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Coronata at high level + large fleet is probably most powerful fleet in game...it is nearly impossible to kill...repulsion, malice, shield regen, and TK push combined with the coronata's suppression make it truly awesome....

The issue is getting to that point...at low levels, eradica and ragnarov are better, and they have other assets (TAR, RB, wail) that are extremely useful...

Vasari of course have mobility, so while AL may have best fleet I wouldn't say they are most powerful overall...other factions can get larger fleets faster or have better titans for the early game...

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RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #4 July 13, 2012 8:53:06 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Im so frustrated with sins and its community these days....

 

because life sucks when you can't beat the vasari and if you can beat them then your probably getting bored of this game. 

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MayallCommunion
Join Date 09/2011
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Reply #5 July 13, 2012 11:16:21 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm just going to put it this way. The Advent really did not have much thought put into their design. The Loyalist got there theme, but its very weak. The Rebels is almost entirely RNG based for one of there main techs. But I do agree with riddle.

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Ekko_Tek
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #6 July 13, 2012 1:22:07 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 1
Well, first, there is a bug with the Advent culture techs (the 2nd and 3rd levels) that actually increase the chance of all weapons bypassing shields or doing more damage or something really bad...so, if you researched those, Advent fleet is going to suck against anyone...

This was fixed in 1.03.

https://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/427529

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Volt_Cruelerz
Join Date 06/2008
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Reply #7 July 13, 2012 1:58:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, sorta..  Yarlen had to make his hotfix mod-patch thingy which actually fixed it.

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Ekko_Tek
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Reply #8 July 13, 2012 3:50:38 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Oh. Is this mod MP compatible? Thinking not...so basically got to wait for the next patch to update everyone.

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Seleuceia
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Reply #9 July 13, 2012 5:46:58 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,
reply 8
Well, sorta.. Yarlen had to make his hotfix mod-patch thingy which actually fixed it.

Why wasn't the game hotfixed????  I do not understand......

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Piskuftw
Piskuftw
Join Date 07/2012
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Reply #10 July 13, 2012 5:50:01 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I read something about spawning units for testing stuff, but it was some time ago and cant remember exactly in what topic it was. Is it possible to somehow test stuff alone easily? Atm i am using easy cpu for my dummy but my options are kinda limited there. Would like to test out upgraded PMs, this advent culture bug and fleet vs fleet stuff, is it possible to do alone somehow or i have to do it in MP with another person?

 

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Seleuceia
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Reply #11 July 13, 2012 6:02:50 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Use dev.exe....its in the same directory as the normal .exe...

When running the dev.exe, you can hit three keys simultaneously:

ctrl + shift + . (the period key)

A little window will come up if you are actually in a game....you can navigate that window using letters and sideways carrots (<)...this thread should help...some nice features of dev.exe is that you can switch players, toggle whether AI controls them, and spawn ships instantly...

Note that the dev.exe and the normal .exe have their own setting files and will reset them if they detec the setting files from the other .exe type...also, the dev.exe has it's own mod folder (same general area as normal mod folder)...

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bilun
Join Date 02/2012
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Reply #12 July 13, 2012 8:55:53 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 10
m the other .exe type...also, the dev.exe has it's own mod folder (same general area as normal mod folder)...

 

The bug was discovered during the dev's holiday week.  Yarlen put out a quick fix mod on his own time to tide us over until a hotfix is deployed. 

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Seleuceia
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Reply #13 July 13, 2012 10:48:28 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'm aware of the mod, but a mod doesn't do ICO any good...they've been sitting with these files for well over a week, yet have chosen not to release a hotfix...why?  Seriously, why?  They have the files to fix this issue, they clearly aren't trying to keep them a secret, so why would you sit on them and not release a hotfix?  I just feel like there is something going on behind the scenes, and the devs don't want to tell us...

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Ekko_Tek
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #14 July 13, 2012 11:02:15 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's actually been *crickets* since 1.03 really from the devs - will 1.04 be the Holy Grail of Balance we've been waiting for? Should be within the next week or 2 I'd hope.

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bilun
Join Date 02/2012
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Reply #15 July 13, 2012 11:15:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ekko_Tek,
reply 15
It's actually been *crickets* since 1.03 really from the devs - will 1.04 be the Holy Grail of Balance we've been waiting for? Should be within the next week or 2 I'd hope.

Actually we were told the earliest 1.04 would be out is towards the end of july.  So 2 weeks is sort of best case scenario.

 

 

That said, the week after 1.03 was released(so last week) was vacation week over at stardock- that said they have been awfully quiet this week.

 

Honestly I'm just hoping we see a hotfix patch version of Yarlen's bugfix mod for 1.03 soon.

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RiddleKing
Join Date 04/2006
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Reply #16 July 14, 2012 6:24:43 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
reply 14
I'm aware of the mod, but a mod doesn't do ICO any good...they've been sitting with these files for well over a week, yet have chosen not to release a hotfix...why?  Seriously, why?  They have the files to fix this issue, they clearly aren't trying to keep them a secret, so why would you sit on them and not release a hotfix?  I just feel like there is something going on behind the scenes, and the devs don't want to tell us...

 

Its called corporate bureaucracy .

 

Also theres the possiblity that the hot fix could crash the entire game even though yarlens solution works. Therefore because they don't trust yarlen and he has to follow the chain of command then you end up with a situation where the cure of a plague is held back for months as countless gamers die and drop the game. 

 

Your view Yarlen?

 

I for one admire numerous testing to ensure the game won't crash but are you satisfied with the way things are going?

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Seleuceia
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Reply #17 July 14, 2012 8:22:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 17
I for one admire numerous testing to ensure the game won't crash but are you satisfied with the way things are going?

Well, the "official updates" either aren't tested or aren't tested well...otherwise, we wouldn't have any need for hotfixes...so really, if complete patches are being release with poor oversight, I don't see why hotfixes suddently get the red tape blocking them....

Alright, alright, fine, we all make mistakes, right?  Sometimes something gets through and so a hotfix is needed...okay, fine, I can live with that...

Except this isn't the first time that SD has made "buffs" into "debuffs" because of a sign issue...the "testing" that must be holding back this hotfix apparently wasn't in place for v1.03...or the diplomacy updates that did the same thing with other modifiers...

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RiddleKing
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Reply #18 July 16, 2012 9:14:23 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Lets get back on point guys..

 

The discords are the culprits responsible for absolutely destroying other races with there mini Chastic Burst(scream) slash ability disabling slash armor debuff combos..

This alone can kill every race in the game before the real chastic burst supports the fleet.

 

I don't see how any of the other races abilities and ship hull integrity are of any use to help them..

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ARESIV
Join Date 05/2011
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Reply #19 July 18, 2012 3:14:00 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RiddleKing,
reply 19
Lets get back on point guys..

 

The discords are the culprits responsible for absolutely destroying other races with there mini Chastic Burst(scream) slash ability disabling slash armor debuff combos..

This alone can kill every race in the game before the real chastic burst supports the fleet.

 

I don't see how any of the other races abilities and ship hull integrity are of any use to help them..

 

A halfway descent Vasari player will phase missile you into oblivion long before you get there...

 

As Advent have the weakest economy of all the races you cannt afford the same losses as the other races.

 

 

On a more general issue: Advents rely heavy on shields... in a game where armor is more useful, even without phase missiles.

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RiddleKing
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Reply #20 July 22, 2012 12:17:18 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ARESIV,
reply 20

Quoting RiddleKing, reply 19Lets get back on point guys..

 

The discords are the culprits responsible for absolutely destroying other races with there mini Chastic Burst(scream) slash ability disabling slash armor debuff combos..

This alone can kill every race in the game before the real chastic burst supports the fleet.

 

I don't see how any of the other races abilities and ship hull integrity are of any use to help them..

 

A halfway descent Vasari player will phase missile you into oblivion long before you get there...

 

As Advent have the weakest economy of all the races you cannt afford the same losses as the other races.

 

 

On a more general issue: Advents rely heavy on shields... in a game where armor is more useful, even without phase missiles.

This is very wrong, your comment is unfounded and likely based on Sins Diplomacy..

 

The vasari are in the worst eco position than any other race in rebellion and depend heavily on neutrals and Orkys to survive. 

 

Given they get there corvettes at tier 2, which are more expensive= then an advent player can shut down there entire fleet and wipe out all LRM with a bigger number of corvettes. You simply can't win without orkys in the beginning. 

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