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Toddwp
Toddwp
Join Date 02/2009
+1

Getting beaten by Cruel

August 10, 2012 2:59:46 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

Playing medium random with 3 AIs, two unfair 1 Cruel. The Cruel AI steamrolls the Unfairs (evidently) and comes after me. This is game time around 1:15. Get some good planets and 5 trade networks, build my first starbase with a few upgrades and the Cruel attacks with orgrovs in an asteroid well, and also with its rather large main fleet (alot of orgrovs and LRFS). It even has HC's and Carriers. How does it get this advanced fleet so fast? It kills off my fleet (2 capitals, a bunch of frigates, moderatley upgraded starbase with moderate planet defenses).

I was able to win 1 game of this setup as AR with heavy use of meteor shower and Eradica. The Cruel just comes at you with so much so fast.

First thing I do is go after trade network, then starbases. A couple mineral upgrades. By the time I get an upgraded starbase at a main planet the Cruel AI comes in and wipes its butt with my face.

 

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Toddwp
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
+629
Reply #1 August 10, 2012 3:25:09 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Playing Cruel and Vicious AI is not for the faint of heart. Like all RTS AIs it cheats, and at these levels, a lot. Do not play them if you want a fair game.

Beating them usually (though sometimes I've seen them behave rather stupidly) requires exploiting weakness with the tactical AI with extreme micromanagement, such as its incompetence with starbases, to win an extremely long war of attrition. If the map is small enough you might be able to Sova/Desolator rush their homeworld and destroy their frigate factory before they can start to build up enough, and kill them early.

I typically only play against them when I have a team advantage. I.e. 2 v 1 or something.

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Toddwp
Toddwp
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #2 August 10, 2012 3:38:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Im a little surprised you agree Cruel AI is so hard. I have seen posts of people saying how they demolish Cruel AI. But ofcourse you dont know the game setup they have. Cruel AI is SO much HARDER than Unfair. Usually I play a medium large random with 5 other Unfairs (no allies) but that has become too easy.

Ive only had luck using Advent rebels against Cruel, the starbase with meteor shower and the high level eradica help alot, assuming you can survive long enough.

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Toddwp
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #3 August 10, 2012 3:47:08 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Toddwp,
reply 2
Im a little surprised you agree Cruel AI is so hard.

I shouldn't say its necessarily hard. In a comp stomp with a bunch of noobs I took on two cruel AI once while my team was mostly worthless, but at least one of the AIs was playing unusually bad, and I lucked into randomly getting Vasari Rebels and rushed jumping starbases.

Tactically they are no better than any other AI, they just throw more stuff at you. That makes it repetitive and in my opinion not as fun. I find it better to impose some sort of restrictions on yourself (don't build starbases except for auxillary government and trade ports) rather than putting the AI at that level.

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Zalman1337
Join Date 02/2008
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Reply #4 August 10, 2012 4:50:18 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
reply 3

Quoting Toddwp, reply 2Im a little surprised you agree Cruel AI is so hard.

I shouldn't say its necessarily hard. In a comp stomp with a bunch of noobs I took on two cruel AI once while my team was mostly worthless, but at least one of the AIs was playing unusually bad, and I lucked into randomly getting Vasari Rebels and rushed jumping starbases.

Tactically they are no better than any other AI, they just throw more stuff at you. That makes it repetitive and in my opinion not as fun. I find it better to impose some sort of restrictions on yourself (don't build starbases except for auxillary government and trade ports) rather than putting the AI at that level.

Wow, you're SO good. You're my hero.

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gamingjoc
Join Date 07/2012
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Reply #5 August 10, 2012 5:31:39 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

I just bought this game so I can't wait to play it, it's nice to hear that the AI is actually challenging not something you see too often in an RTS.

3dus impuscaturi

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HouseRalan
Join Date 03/2008
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Reply #6 August 10, 2012 5:33:40 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Zalman1337,
reply 5

Quoting GoaFan77, reply 3
Quoting Toddwp, reply 2Im a little surprised you agree Cruel AI is so hard.

I shouldn't say its necessarily hard. In a comp stomp with a bunch of noobs I took on two cruel AI once while my team was mostly worthless, but at least one of the AIs was playing unusually bad, and I lucked into randomly getting Vasari Rebels and rushed jumping starbases.

Tactically they are no better than any other AI, they just throw more stuff at you. That makes it repetitive and in my opinion not as fun. I find it better to impose some sort of restrictions on yourself (don't build starbases except for auxillary government and trade ports) rather than putting the AI at that level.

Wow, you're SO good. You're my hero.

Seriously Zalman, stop eating the lead paint chips.

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Toddwp
Toddwp
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #7 August 10, 2012 6:31:47 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Man, I got a leg up on the Cruel AI in a new game. Im playing AR. I destroy their fleet (titan wasnt there) with my SB in a different well, while I attack and kill his SB in the contested well. Before I can rebuild my fleet and get more than 1 upgrade on a SB in the contested well, the Cruel AI warps in with his VL titan and fleet and wipes me out, even with my Eradica going God blue.

 

So my question is, does the Cruel AI cheat with its fleet in addition to economically?

 

 

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Toddwp
Bama498
Join Date 06/2012
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Reply #8 August 10, 2012 6:42:49 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

The cruel AI is pretty tough.  I've been splitting 1v1 games about 50-50 with them lately.  The trick to being competitive with them is you really have to focus on using the tactical advantage(s) of the race you are playing.

TR - Get Truce among Rogues immediately and blitz colonize your area of the map.  Then quickly roll out the Ragnarov Titan.

TL - Sprint to Novaliths and build 4 as quickly as possible.  Then bomb the enemy with them while fortifying a nearby choke point.

AR - Rush the Eratica Titan and get your Mothership to level 5 with 3 levels of Malice.  Use Chastic Burst + Malice to clobber the enemy fleets.  You can also set a trap for the AI with Wail of the Sacrificed.  Meteor Storm and Shield Bestowal also can help you defend a choke point.

AL - Your only hope here is a well built choke point with Meteor Storm and Shield Bestowal + the Coronata Titan with Suppression and Subjugating Assault.

VR - Titan + Mobile Orkie.  Use the Titan to kill frigates and the fully upgraded Orkie to kill everything else.

VL - Rush Stripped to the Core.  If you focus on it, you can have this tech in around 20 minutes.  Then colonize and strip every planet beyond your homeworld and asteroid + dwarf planet.  Use the resources to build several additional capital ships and then a huge attack fleet.

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GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #9 August 10, 2012 7:13:34 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Toddwp,
reply 8
So my question is, does the Cruel AI cheat with its fleet in addition to economically?

We don't believe so. They get much larger economic bonuses than hard and unfair, as well as free research and possibly faster build times.

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Toddwp
Toddwp
Join Date 02/2009
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Reply #10 August 11, 2012 10:42:28 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Looks like I got another game in the bag against Cruel. Im only able to beat it when it attacks my fully vitamin fortified planet with my fleet. I kill its fleet and titan, then attack the next planet while it is weakened.

 

I did notice that it will only attack my fortified planet when my fleet is NOT there. So I move my fleet 1 planet away then warp in when I see him coming along phase lines. Also notice he never uses the MAW

 

How does it know my fleet is not there? The enemy is VL.

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-Ue_Carbon
Join Date 07/2008
+117
Reply #11 August 11, 2012 11:03:37 AM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
reply 3
once while my team was mostly worthless,

 

That hurts my feelings.

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Toddwp
GoaFan77
Join Date 10/2008
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Reply #12 August 11, 2012 1:18:11 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting -Ue_Carbon,
reply 12
That hurts my feelings.

You know I was talking about those other guys, you are the reason I put "mostly" instead of "entirely".

Quoting Toddwp,
reply 11
I did notice that it will only attack my fortified planet when my fleet is NOT there. So I move my fleet 1 planet away then warp in when I see him coming along phase lines. Also notice he never uses the MAW

Yup, thats the default strategy for such things.

Quoting Toddwp,
reply 11
How does it know my fleet is not there? The enemy is VL.

It can scout just like you can. Remember the Vasari also get easy access to techs that show fleet movements.

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-Ue_Carbon
Join Date 07/2008
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Reply #13 August 11, 2012 5:18:04 PM
from Sins of a Solar Empire ForumsSins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
reply 13
You know I was talking about those other guys, you are the reason I put "mostly" instead of "entirely"

 

Uh huh, keep back pedaling  

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