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In defence of Rebellion... don't change anything!!!

By on September 13, 2012 10:00:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

just_jim

Join Date 05/2009
+5

OK, I need to revise this.... I'm just gonna say I like things the way they are....

 

Thank you Ironclad... I absolutely love Rebellion!

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September 17, 2012 2:38:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Yarlen,
JJ - Thank you for your comments and support. Don't let the trolls get you down.

At least someone is on the ball.........

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September 17, 2012 3:13:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I could say something honest...but people would rather have sunlight shown up their ass...


Nevertheless, what I do genuinely appreciate is that this thread wasn't locked...definitely a step in the right direction, last thing we want is a spiral of silence...

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September 17, 2012 7:42:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Oh I think Yarlen is clearly stating that Starclad doesn't want anymore honest feedback for whatever reason, that anyone opposing his companies views on their project is a "troll".

For some reason it seems that he is starting to get emotional about things, as if everything in every creative endeavor is a success because a "longtime group of industry veterans" designed it.  When you get emotionally connected to a design it really will hamper your efforts to take effective constructive criticism that will help you to improve that design.  There is still plenty of constructive criticism on these forums, in between useless troll threads full of my little ponies.  The point is the devs don't want to hear whats wrong with their game because they are too emotionally invested.

Its a great game, its a great expansion, the numbers online are proof enough.  Yet, these numbers are predictably dwindling because the Single player experience favorite, the vasari, have an unplayable multiplayer faction because they are grossly OP. 

Denying this is just rampant, IP damaging denial.

Good developers don't treat their population as an "enemy group".

Good developers maintain a dialogue with their fans that fosters good communication, after all you don't need to keep many patch notes secret...

Good developers realize their players are partially responsible for their paychecks.

As for trolls on these forums,

Their activity is dwindling.  Other players providing useful feedback aren't going to be thrown in the bin and labelled as trolls just because some developer has personal issues that they need to overcome.

 

 

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September 17, 2012 8:18:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I guess it really depends what they want. From past comments, it seems Stardock generally feels the SP audience to be the main purchasers and their main audience and that they try to incorporate some MP balance issues as well. I'll grant that the SP audience is probably a lot easier to please and quite simple as far as community interaction. As long as there are no game breaking bugs, it's mostly about fun and space explosions and pew pew. MP audience is much more demanding and put the game through a lot more stress tests. Suddenly, fun and graphics take a backseat to balance and online stability. It also brings with it the need for a lot more interaction and dialogue between dev and community when that is more of a focus.

The MP base can be quite large, it's just that for RTS it's mostly already captured by a select few games. MOBAs as well. Ironclad will be experiencing soon enough this shift to MP balance issues as the main focus for their new title. For any Sins2, it will be interesting to see at that point what the priorities are.

So again, it's not a judgement on anyone for the current game, but it is something to consider for future titles if they want to capture more of the MP audience that is out there.

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September 17, 2012 8:26:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
Oh I think Yarlen is clearly stating that Starclad doesn't want anymore honest feedback for whatever reason, that anyone opposing his companies views on their project is a "troll".

For some reason it seems that he is starting to get emotional about things, as if everything in every creative endeavor is a success because a "longtime group of industry veterans" designed it.  When you get emotionally connected to a design it really will hamper your efforts to take effective constructive criticism that will help you to improve that design.  There is still plenty of constructive criticism on these forums, in between useless troll threads full of my little ponies.  The point is the devs don't want to hear whats wrong with their game because they are too emotionally invested.

Its a great game, its a great expansion, the numbers online are proof enough.  Yet, these numbers are predictably dwindling because the Single player experience favorite, the vasari, have an unplayable multiplayer faction because they are grossly OP. 

Denying this is just rampant, IP damaging denial.

Good developers don't treat their population as an "enemy group".

Good developers maintain a dialogue with their fans that fosters good communication, after all you don't need to keep many patch notes secret...

Good developers realize their players are partially responsible for their paychecks.

As for trolls on these forums,

Their activity is dwindling.  Other players providing useful feedback aren't going to be thrown in the bin and labelled as trolls just because some developer has personal issues that they need to overcome.

 

 

 

Well to be fair while Yarlen did get a bit overemotional, the criticism that was being thrown around wasn't exactly constructive.

 

Saying "X is still a problem" is one thing, but "The devs don't have a clue how their own game works" or "The devs are incompetent for letting problems persist this long" are entirely another.  And frankly in the last month there has been A LOT of the latter sort of comments.

Honestly I think those sort of comments are the sort that set Yarlen off- there were quite a few in the thread that got locked. 

To be fair, there are some things I wish the devs had handled a bit better- most notably I wish we had a bit more communication.  In Yarlen's big post he specifically mentioned that "just because we don't think your ideas are best for the game and implement them doesn't make us incompetent" or something to that degree; That's entirely reasonable as it's their game.

 BUT, it would be nice to hear the devs say that they don't like said ideas and explain why rather then just maintain a silence with the community while doing something else entirely.  Obviously they don't have time to respond to every half-brained idea that spews out of the forum, but there are occasional ideas that get repeated and argued for nearly unanimously among the community for months on end(example: starbase jumping as a module).   If the devs have decided these rare heavily-embraced ideas are no-good, I think it would ease tension a bit on the forums if the devs would inform us that they don't like the idea and why.

 

Of course, this does nothing to justify the amount judgement and denouncement on the part of the forum, nor make it any more productive.  But the point is there are two sides to this:

 

Players: stop being such immature whiners with an overinflated sense of self-entitlement when frustrated.

DEVS: be a bit more understanding that the aforementioned whiners are frustrated and take reasonable action to reduce said frustration-such as via a bit more information on the dev's standpoint on game balance and why commonly embraced ideas don't fit their vision for the game.

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September 17, 2012 8:43:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Players: stop being such immature whiners with an overinflated sense of self-entitlement when frustrated.

DEVS: be a bit more understanding that the aforementioned whiners are frustrated and take reasonable action to reduce said frustration-such as via a bit more information on the dev's standpoint on game balance and why commonly embraced ideas don't fit their vision for the game/

Good post bilun.

As for game vision...

The control of the game changes once it is released.  Such is the nature of IP, and lucky for all of us the control freaks in the world don't get to have total control of their ideas.  They have enough to justifiably earn a living off of them, which is excellent for encouraging future IP enterprise.  Yet they don't get enough to prevent true innovations to their ideas.  Its beautiful. 

Its much like when a person fights a war.  What you had prepped before the war matters the most, because once you go to war the situation changes beyond anyone's control.

Trying to please a mass market to give them the game they want, while trying to prevent any influence they have on the game is only going to turn people off to your game in the long run. Or, taking a stand for your player base might just garner you some enduring devotion from your fan base.

Just take a look at Bethesda.  They went to bat against Microsoft's draconian contracts to get the xbox to support their modding community.  They failed, but they tried.  They definitely get their console customer's respect, even if its possibly just a brand building media ploy.

As for players, its not our fault that the developers want our $$ and our love, they must earn it however.  The players have the convenience of whining and complaining because these are tools of communication with any company.  Players are more self entitled then the developers because we live in a democratic society(which establishes the cultural precedent), and there are vastly more of us then there are of developers.

Now, players can provide constructive criticism to assist the developers in their goals, and to show them that they are headed the wrong direction.

Developers:

Its easy to make mistakes.  Nobody hates you for your mistakes.

Its when you refuse to learn from them in a reasonable time frame that you deserve reprimand.

My personal opinion is that starclad is not really wanting to focus on the balancing of sins, because they want to grow more IP's.

Sins rebellion is the "finally, we finished it, time to move on" feel to it, thats why we are facing developer reluctance to balance the game.

 

 

 

 

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September 17, 2012 9:51:55 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

NOTICE:  My thread would not have been locked if the comments on it had been limited to criticism.  What was posted there towards the end(while I was asleep I will add) was nothing more than outright hate for stardock and ironclad.  It would have been locked much sooner if I had been awake to request it.  This thread has(for the most part) remained civil-ish, and is has acceptable levels of ACTUAL CRITICISM.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the topic at hand, first of all, a lot of the "balance" requests the MP community are asking for are simply not reasonable.  Someone finds a way to exploit a part of the game that make a faction good to the point where they break the game, everyone else starts doing it, and the only responce anyone can come up with is "the game developers screwed up"

I guarantee that if they "fixed" every single thing the MP community claimed was OP, they would find something else to break, and the whole thing would start all over again until we had 6 factions with ships and researches that exactly mimic eachother, with the only difference being the in-game ship designs themselves.  (Jumping Starbases I will admit need tweaking, and I suggested moving that to a base to base upgrade on top of phase stabilizers.  (Well, I suggested it, or agreed to a suggestion....don't remember at this point.)

 -Twi

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September 17, 2012 10:07:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Yarlen,
JJ - Thank you for your comments and support. Don't let the trolls get you down.

Thank you for all the hard work, despite the trolls...

 

 

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September 17, 2012 10:10:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You're trolling, making the same kind of moronic post that keeps getting these threads locked.

 

I haven't seen a thread yet that was locked for balance criticisms.  Attacking the developers is not a balance criticism.

 

 

Edit: Directed at Rep #53.

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September 17, 2012 10:14:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,
My personal opinion is that starclad is not really wanting to focus on the balancing of sins, because they want to grow more IP's.

Well there is your personal opinion and there is theirs.

This is theirs.

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/429746/get;3229024

 

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September 17, 2012 10:24:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Twilight_Storm,

I guarantee that if they "fixed" every single thing the MP community claimed was OP, they would find something else to break, and the whole thing would start all over again until we had 6 factions with ships and researches that exactly mimic eachother, with the only difference being the in-game ship designs themselves.

 -Twi

 

I could not agree more. Everyone plays a little bit differently and the different types are there to help match with the different ways people play. And Twi hit it right on that if they fix everyones complaint the game would turn dull. So keep doing what you dong Stardock/Ironclad

 

-Hawk

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September 17, 2012 11:13:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

OK, now I'm starting to think I need to write and record a "Troll" song... the project I'm working on is already fantasy based, so I don't think it would be terribly hard to add one more into the mix...

 

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September 17, 2012 11:34:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting just_jim,
OK, now I'm starting to think I need to write and record a "Troll" song... the project I'm working on is already fantasy based, so I don't think it would be terribly hard to add one more into the mix...

 

Most of the serious OMGWTFLOLBBQ trolling is gone. Now it's more subtle stuff hanging around.

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September 17, 2012 11:47:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Kinda like the fallout from a nuclear war. 

-Twi

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September 17, 2012 11:48:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bilun,
just because we don't think your ideas are best for the game and implement them doesn't make us incompetent" or something to that degree; That's entirely reasonable as it's their game.

The issue isn't that "so and so's" idea didn't get implemented....the isssue is that nothing really got implemented for some of the most pervasive balance problems...many of the so called "trolls" here, including myself, are not here to stroke our ego's or get rises out of others...we genuinely want balance to be improved, and for those that have been here through all of Sins and even previous titles, it is extremely frustrating...

It's not about getting my idea into the game, or your idea into the game...it's about having at least something implemented to fix the issue...take for example SttC...some, like Zombie, wanted it to be affected by fleet upkeep...others wanted it to be a titan ability, or simply reduce the resources earned, or require multiple technologies, etc. etc...at the end of the day, no one really cares who's suggestion got into the game...what matters is that something was done and that that something adequately addressed the issue....

Quoting Twilight_Storm,
As for the topic at hand, first of all, a lot of the "balance" requests the MP community are asking for are simply not reasonable.

Explain to me how requests to nerf Starbase mobilization are "unreasonable"...we aren't looking to take it out of the game, we are looking to keep it powerful without being overpowered...how is that in any way unreasonable???

Quoting Twilight_Storm,
guarantee that if they "fixed" every single thing the MP community claimed was OP, they would find something else to break, and the whole thing would start all over again until we had 6 factions with ships and researches that exactly mimic eachother, with the only difference being the in-game ship designs themselves.

This is just absolutely wrong...diplomacy v1.34 was actually fairly good, with the Vasari vs. Advent matchup being the only serious balance problem...there were some "variability" problems (techs, caps, and what not that were useless) but near perfect balance was most certainly within reach...a few tweaks to the damage tables and buffs to Advent PM blocking, and the game would have been pretty much fine...your are so biased against those who enjoy MP, it boggles my mind...

Quoting psychoak,
You're trolling, making the same kind of moronic post that keeps getting these threads locked.

Sareth is simply being honest (and doing it more kindly than I did)...most nearly everyone here agrees that Starclad has made a great game...many of the "trolls", including myself, have even lauded Starclad for all the things it has done right (it seems those comments of ours conveniently get ignored or forgotten)....balance is just one area Starclad is particularly weak in...that doesn't make Starclad bad nor does it make Sins a shitty game...what it does mean is that Starclad cannot perfect game balance on its own...it needs continual and substantial feedback from players who have the time to get good at this game and understand how everything actually plays out....

A while ago, around the time of the beta and official release, there were big clashes between fanboys and peeved members of the old guard...some felt Rebellion was perfect and the best thing since apple pie....others felt it was absolutely horrid, atrocious, a waste of money, etc....my stance was, is, and probably always will be that both of those viewpoints are misguided...the game is not awful (though there have been times when it was in an awful state), but y'all are kidding yourself if you don't think there are problems...Rebellion has a lot going for it and seems to be shaping up fairly well, but if there's room for improvement why wouldn't you try to make it better?????

People have gone on here and said Starclad is a terrible company because they don't know how to make a good MP game...I try to tell those people as much as I can that Starclad is not terrible, they simply have a weakness in game balance...what we the forum members can do is provide constructive feedback, because the devs do not have the intuition and experience with this game that competitive MP players do...

Why do I continually reiterate that Starclad has this weakness?  To point out that the solution is not to expect the devs to change...that is out of our control...all we can do is continue to provide suggestions and feedback, and hope the devs make the right choices...

 

 

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September 18, 2012 12:04:34 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you read my post, you would see I specifically called out starbase mobilization.

And MP WILL always have complainst based on game mechanics they are exploiting.  The Devs should not have to change their concept because a few.......players......are exploiting certain aspects to the point where the PLAYERS break the game.  I've admitted Starbase Mobilization needs some tweaking, but other than that, there's quite a few other so called balance issues that are only issues because the MP community can't seem to let go of an exploitable part of the game once they find it.

My number one complaint is bomber spam.  People think bombers are the be-all-end-all of the game thanks to MP players massive praise of them as Starbase/Cap/Titan killers.  What they aren't taking into account is that the insta-pop of those units comes from massive ammounts of a single unit type(hence why it's called spam).  The game wasn't intended to be played like that, and at this point, a nerf to their damage would just make people want to build MORE of them.

That's just one example of MP exploitation.  Yeah, they're effective, and they should be, but things like this ruin the game for people who have a different play style.  From everything I've seen, MP is just about who can pull off the MP strategy that everyone uses the fastest.  It takes the fun out of the game.  (And is one of the reasons I'll probably never get into it.)

-Twi

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September 18, 2012 12:34:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

Quoting bilun, reply 56just because we don't think your ideas are best for the game and implement them doesn't make us incompetent" or something to that degree; That's entirely reasonable as it's their game.

The issue isn't that "so and so's" idea didn't get implemented....the isssue is that nothing really got implemented for some of the most pervasive balance problems...many of the so called "trolls" here, including myself, are not here to stroke our ego's or get rises out of others...we genuinely want balance to be improved, and for those that have been here through all of Sins and even previous titles, it is extremely frustrating...

It's not about getting my idea into the game, or your idea into the game...it's about having at least something implemented to fix the issue...take for example SttC...some, like Zombie, wanted it to be affected by fleet upkeep...others wanted it to be a titan ability, or simply reduce the resources earned, or require multiple technologies, etc. etc...at the end of the day, no one really cares who's suggestion got into the game...what matters is that something was done and that that something adequately addressed the issue....

 

 

You're quoting me out of context.  The focus of my post as a whole was not that people are pissed about their ideas not being implemented.  

Also let's look at the sentence you partially quoted:

 

In Yarlen's big post he specifically mentioned that "just because we don't think your ideas are best for the game and implement them doesn't make us incompetent" or something to that degree; That's entirely reasonable as it's their game.



I was merely bringing up Yarlen's complaints and commenting on them.  in fact my overall message was precisely that: that although it is the devs right to take or refuse whatever ideas they choose, people are getting somewhat frustrated.  you'll notice the section you quoted springboards into the next topic: things the devs can do to reduce that frustration.

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September 18, 2012 1:13:23 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bilun,
You're quoting me out of context.

Chill chill man, I'm discussing Yarlen's quote (it was easier to quote your paraphrase than hunt down that thread)....


Twi, man...dude...I don't even know what to say to you...it's our fault for noticing their are imbalances in the game and adapting to them?  What, should we instead adopt losing strategies because that was the way the game was meant to be played? 

 

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September 18, 2012 1:18:38 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Twilight_Storm,
And MP WILL always have complainst based on game mechanics they are exploiting. The Devs should not have to change their concept because a few.......players......are exploiting certain aspects to the point where the PLAYERS break the game.

It isn't about "breaking" the game. It's about learning the game more deeply and really seeing what is actually effective and what is not. I'll repeat. Players are not breaking the game. They are discovering what it contains - what can be done with it. Breaking the game would mean hacking. If it's in the game the devs designed, it has nothing to do with any "breaking". It's identical to any game or sport. You see what average people can do and then you see what the pros can do. You see what a chess grand master can do with his pieces and then what a high school chess club player can do. It then comes down to, for what level of play do you want to balance the game?

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September 18, 2012 1:27:24 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting psychoak,
You're trolling, making the same kind of moronic post that keeps getting these threads locked.
I haven't seen a thread yet that was locked for balance criticisms.  Attacking the developers is not a balance criticism.
Edit: Directed at Rep #53.

Hmm, and i'm attacking the developers by showing them clearly how they represent themselves to the community via their actions?

You know there are people in PR that get paid a lot of money to do what I do as a free service.  If you haven't noticed, this company needs a lil PR assistance, so i've offered it to them free of charge for a few years because I care about the product.  Perception is worth a lot.

I provide excellent constructive criticism because I outline the perception in detail and how it comes across.  I've already Pm'd yarlen before when he's gone over the respectability line as a sort of "red flag" event, as a courtesy to starclad.

If you think it is moronic to take a stand, then you won't amount to much.  No risk, no reward.

lets take a look at my moronic post:

For some reason it seems that he is starting to get emotional about things, as if everything in every creative endeavor is a success because a "longtime group of industry veterans" designed it.  When you get emotionally connected to a design it really will hamper your efforts to take effective constructive criticism that will help you to improve that design.

I would class this as constructive criticism, because I take time to explain myself fully, and I am not stating anything other than fact that is apparent to many, that yarlen is starting to make community perceived emotional decisions.

Calling him on it is natural.  I clearly show him the risks.  Just because I present an opposing viewpoint does in no way discredit me.  Only a person lacking in spinal cord or balls/ovaries, or both would call someone out for standing their ground when there is justification.

If it was a moronic post, I would just say yarlen is a poo poo head and that would be the end of it.  yet I don't think he is a poo poo head.  He's a part of a great company that is currently struggling with its identity, while trying(i'd say successfully overall) to maintain its honor.

By reminding him of what a good developer does, its a statement that shows public expectations.  I know there are many in the community who have said, and do back the very recommendations I made for a standard of a "good developer".

If the developers choose to not listen to their community, its their risk.  Other companies that are being founded via kickstarter are going to be changing this industry for the better soon, so they had better get competitive, as THOSE companies will only be answerable to the players.  This is a superior business setup then what exists in the industry currently, cutting out the middle man.  So, heads up starclad, the next iteration of the industry is rising. 

You know, you don't have to like the devils advocate.

But that position has its uses.

 

 

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September 18, 2012 1:29:31 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

Quoting bilun, reply 68You're quoting me out of context.

Chill chill man, I'm discussing Yarlen's quote (it was easier to quote your paraphrase than hunt down that thread)....



 

 

ahh k; misinterpreted that a bit 

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September 18, 2012 1:55:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting bilun,
ahh k; misinterpreted that a bit

Yeah, I suppose that wasn't presented in the best way...from what Yarlen said, it seemed like he basically felt "trolls" like me and sareth were just upset because our suggestions didn't get into the next patch, and that couldn't be farther from the truth....

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September 18, 2012 2:03:16 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Last I checked it seemed that he didn't like the attitude in which the suggestions were made. Or the insults that you so subtly make. Nothing is wrong with criticism. And the devs don't have a problem with that. Just make them without the insults.

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September 18, 2012 9:23:40 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well put.

Quoting Seleuceia,

Twi, man...dude...I don't even know what to say to you...it's our fault for noticing their are imbalances in the game and adapting to them?  What, should we instead adopt losing strategies because that was the way the game was meant to be played? 

1)  No.

2)  MP aren't adapting to the game, they exploit it to the point where it becomes broken.  EVERY RTS game has these exploits, there isn't a way around it.  I'm not saying some of the complaints aren't legitimate.  (Again, I admit jumping orkies are in need of a little tweaking, which you conveniently left out last time you quoted me...)  The kind of game balance the MP community is asking for will ultimately lead to there only being 1 faction in the game, which is the ONLY WAY TO ENSURE THESE EXPLOITS DO NOT EXIST, due to the fact that all sides would have access to the exact same thing.  You can't have the kind of diversity you see in sins and have perfect balance at the same time, each faction has its strengths and its weaknesses.  Vasari have mobility, Advent have Synergy, TEC has Survivability.  They've all got sub-focuses too, like Vasari Phase Missiles, Advent Shields/AM abilities, TEC Economy.

Quoting Seleuceia,
from what Yarlen said, it seemed like he basically felt "trolls" like me and sareth were just upset because our suggestions didn't get into the next patch, and that couldn't be farther from the truth....

I don't think it was necessarily YOUR suggestions, but the fact the the MP community as a whole thinks the game should be balanced for them, and the SP community thinks it should be balanced for us.  Each side has their own view of what the game is and how it is supposed to be played, and with few exceptions, I think the devs have been doing a pretty good job meeting us in the middle.

-Twi

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September 18, 2012 10:12:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Twilight_Storm,
The kind of game balance the MP community is asking for will ultimately lead to there only being 1 faction in the game, which is the ONLY WAY TO ENSURE THESE EXPLOITS DO NOT EXIST,

This is just wrongheaded, the game most certainly can be balanced without taking out all the diversity...to consider a trivial example, Advent have more shield techs and extra shield mitigation while TEC and Vasari have more armor techs....there is absolutely no reason why this difference needs to be removed in order to keep balance....so long as the increased shields Advent get is comparable to the increased resiliency the TEC and Vasari get from more armor, you have both balance and variability...

Quoting Twilight_Storm,
but the fact the the MP community as a whole thinks the game should be balanced for them, and the SP community thinks it should be balanced for us.

I play both SP and MP...I have worked on mods designed for SP and MP...I have been part of community efforts to make a balance mod...not only is balancing the game entirely doable without killing diversity, but balancing the game for MP is not always to the detriment of SP...in most cases, it will benefit both...I'm a diehard Advent fan, but I don't play AL in SP because they aren't fun...they don't have any cool toys to use, and thus they are boring....buffing the AL not only would make them more competitive, but also more fun...I also hate the Ankylon because it is boring...it doesn't really do anything that is useful, and thus I'd rather have 3 extra marzas with missile barrage....buffing the Ankylon to make be competitive also would make it (and the TL as a whole) more fun to play in SP...

SP and MP "balance" and not inherently contradictory, and in fact most times are conducive to eachother...

 

 

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