Sins of a Solar Empire : Real-Time Strategy. Unrivalled Scale.
© 2003-2014 Ironclad Games Corporation Vancouver, BC. All rights reserved.
© 2006-2014 Stardock Entertainment

Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion v1.1 Change Log

Now available via Steam

By on November 7, 2012 10:12:56 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yarlen

Join Date 01/2005
+191

Stardock Entertainment and Ironclad Games are happy to announce v1.1 for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion. This latest update adds dozens of new maps, balance changes and bug fixes as noted below. Version 1.1 is save game compatible with the previous v1.041.


[ Gameplay ]

  • New Maps! We've added dozens of new maps, including competitive multiplayer variants which normalize resources, militia and other factors (thanks to Pbhead and GoaFan77 for these). New maps include:
    • The Art of War Competitive
    • Battle Lines / Battle Lines Competitive
    • Blitz / Blitz Competitive
    • Close Encounters Competitive
    • Crystal Storm / Crystal Storm Competitive
    • Double Cross Competitive
    • Empires at War
    • Foreign Invasion Competitive
    • Fractured Lands / Fractured Lands Competitive
    • Gemini / Gemini Competitive
    • Hostile Orbits / Hostile Orbits Competitive
    • Kabel Competitive
    • Maelstrom Competitive
    • Melting Point Competitive
    • New Dawn / New Dawn Competitive
    • Pandemonium Competitive
    • Quick Strike Competitive
    • Random - Huge Multi-Star Competitive
    • Random - Huge Ring Competitive
    • Random - Huge Single-Star Competitive
    • Random - Large Multi-Star Competitive
    • Random - Large Single-Star Competitive
    • Random - Medium Competitive
    • Random - Mini / Random - Mini Competitive
    • Random - Small Competitive
    • Random - Vast / Random - Vast Competitive
    • Razor's Edge Competitive
    • Storm Front Competitive
    • Tempest Competitive
    • The Void
    • Triple Entente Competitive
    • Twin Empires Competitive
    • Typhoon Competitive
    • Unstable Alliance Competitive
    • Whirlwind Competitive
  • All corvettes are now unaffected by most harmful Titan abilitiesExceptions are Explosive Shot, which will still knockback corvettes in the AoE, and The Maw, which will still potentially draw in corvettes in the AoE (but won't specifically target them).
  • Ships should no longer try to use abilities on invulnerable targets.
  • Corvettes will no longer be explicitly targeted by Cleansing Brilliance or Reverie abilities (but may still be affected by them).
  • Corvettes are no longer affected by Magnetic Clouds.
  • Adjusted relationship bonuses per Pact with allies to grant a 0.2 Diplomatic Actions bonus per unique Pact (to a maximum of 2.4).
  • Adjusted relationship penalties per Pact with enemies to grant a -0.5 Diplomatic Actions penalty per unique Pact (to a maximum of -6.0).
  • TEC Loyalists
    • Titan: Can now cast Group Shield on itself.
    • Titan: Increased started HP from 5400 to 5500; increased starting Armor from 11 to 12.
  • TEC Rebels
    • Titan: AutoCannon damage increased from 110.5 to 121.52; Missile damage increased from 127.5 to 140.25.
  • Advent (General)
    • Deliverance Engine Balance Changes:
      • Cannonshell speed increased from 12000 to 36000 (moving at the speed of thought!).
      • Culture Spread effect increased from 5 to 15.
      • The 25% damage buff to Advent player owned ships will now affect incoming ships as well as those already in the gravity well when the shot hits.
      • Deliverance Engine shots will now reduce an enemy planet's Allegiance by 10% (stacks 3 times).
  • Advent Loyalists
    • Global Unity now adds a 5% bonus to max. planet allegiance in addition to its other effects.
  • Advent Rebels
    • Wail of the Sacrificed has been changed to affect all adjacent planets, ships and structures regardless of ownership. 
    • Titan: Chastic Burst antimatter cost increased from 70 to 80; cooldown increased from 20 to 30.
    • Titan: Side Beam damage reduced from 130 to 117.
    • Fixed Expulsion tech to properly give its 20% culture spread bonus.
  • Vasari Loyalists
    • Titan: The Maw will no longer explicitly target corvettes (though they may still be affected if caught in the ability AoE).
    • Titan: Increased the cooldown on The Maw from 175 to 210.
    • Titan: Starting HP increased from 4802 to 5042; HP per level decreased from 459 to 436; starting Shields increased from 2567 to 2696; Shields per level decreased from 533 to 507.
  • Vasari Rebels
    • Titan: HP per level increased from 405 to 445; Shields per level increased from 529 to 582; Armor per level increased from 0.58 to 0.64.
    • Rebel Starbases will now suffer from additional debuffs after a phase jump: Passive shield regeneration is decreased by 50%, Armor is reduced by 1.5 and weapon damage received is increased by 25%. Negative effects after phase jumping a Starbase now stack 3 times; debuff duration of all effects increased to 600 seconds from 60.
    • Armor Restoration technology bonus reduced from +25% HP / +5 Armor to +15% HP / +3 Armor.
  • Pirates
    • Ships spawned from bounty raids made less random and weaker earlier in the game.
    • Pirate raids spawned via Diplomatic mission costs adjusted for revised raid levels above (i.e., much cheaper).

[ Misc. ]

  • Fixed reported null pointer crash related to buff spawning (thanks ezeltje299).
  • Fixed reported null check on first spawner buffs (thanks ateague1987).
  • Fixed broken Pirate Exterminator Steam Achievement.
  • Fixed broken Outstanding Resume Steam Achievement.
  • Steam Cloud Saves re-enabled and should now work as intended in multiplayer games.
  • Checksum detection added on multiplayer saves to validate that saves aren't corrupted.
  • Fixed Pact related crash that would occur if a player had more than six unique Pacts established.
  • Fixed null pointer crash related to Wail of the Sacrificed.

[ Modding ] 

  • Added new icons to Galaxy Forge for competitive map types.
101 Replies
Search this post
Subscription Options


Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 1:16:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Titan: Chastic Burst antimatter cost increased from 70 to 80; cooldown increased from 20 to 30.

Chastic burst is AR titan isn't it...not VR?

Fixed Expulsion tech to properly give its 20% culture spread bonus.

also, advent, not vasari rebels


and whooo i helped with a fix

And any and all map adds I support!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 1:47:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Doh! Thanks!  Not sure how those got in the wrong places.  Must have gotten jumbled when I was moving items around.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 1:58:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Also any ETA on when this update comes in november? 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 2:06:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Next week if all goes to plan.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 2:31:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Cannonshell speed increased from 12000 to 36000 (moving at the speed of thought!).

 

im sueing your lore team.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 2:56:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Corvette packs should now counter Titans.  This should reduce the imbalances between the Titans somewhat as there are more ways to counter them.

The Advent Loyalists look like they will be a lot stronger.  Much better Deliverance Engine, economy improvement with Global Unity, and another way (corvettes) to counter the stronger faction's Titans.

Vasari Rebel starbases get 'squishier' as you move them.  I'm not sure I'm convinced that this will bring them into balance, but I'm not sure that it won't either.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 4:28:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Bama498,

Vasari Rebel starbases get 'squishier' as you move them.  I'm not sure I'm convinced that this will bring them into balance, but I'm not sure that it won't either.

Same, 10 minutes might be a long enough buff to make a difference. But it will take players more skilled tactically than me to determine if it's decisive or not.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 4:30:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I think vasari rebel sbses need more than 3 stacks or bigger debufs

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 4:34:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Looking great Yarlen. Much appreciated (especially the Vasari Rebel starbase debuffs)!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 4:55:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, I guess we'll see on the starbase situation. At this point, I need more folks to let me know what they think through playtesting.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 5:03:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thank you for fixing expulsion...I thought that was the root of my culture problems!

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 5:06:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thank you a lot for this patch!

 

New maps are awesome! Even more awesome that you have competive version of them!

 

My thoughts are in Blue:

Quoting ,

Stardock Entertainment and Ironclad Games are happy to announce the forthcoming v1.1 update for Sins of a Solar Empire: Rebellion. This latest update adds dozens of new maps, balance changes and bug fixes as noted below.  This update is save game compatible with v1.041.


[ Gameplay ]


New Maps! We've added dozens of new maps, including competitive multiplayer variants which normalize resources, militia and other factors (thanks to Pbhead and GoaFan77 for these). New maps include:

The Art of War Competitive
Battle Lines / Battle Lines Competitive
Blitz / Blitz Competitive
Close Encounters Competitive
Crystal Storm / Crystal Storm Competitive
Double Cross Competitive
Empires at War
Foreign Invasion Competitive
Fractured Lands / Fractured Lands Competitive
Gemini / Gemini Competitive
Hostile Orbits / Hostile Orbits Competitive
Kabel Competitive
Maelstrom Competitive
Melting Point Competitive
New Dawn / New Dawn Competitive
Pandemonium Competitive
Quick Strike Competitive
Random - Huge Multi-Star Competitive
Random - Huge Ring Competitive
Random - Huge Single-Star Competitive
Random - Large Multi-Star Competitive
Random - Large Single-Star Competitive
Random - Medium Competitive
Random - Mini / Random - Mini Competitive
Random - Small Competitive
Random - Vast / Random - Vast Competitive
Razor's Edge Competitive
Star of War Competitive
Storm Front Competitive
Tempest Competitive
The Void
Triple Entente Competitive
Twin Empires Competitive
Typhoon Competitive
Unstable Alliance Competitive
Whirlwind Competitive

All corvettes are now unaffected by most harmful Titan abilitiesExceptions are Explosive Shot, which will still knockback corvettes in the AoE, and The Maw, which will still potentially draw in corvettes in the AoE (but won't specifically target them). Excellent!
Ships should no longer try to use abilities on invulnerable targets. Nice fix.
Corvettes will no longer be explicitly targeted by Cleansing Brilliance or Reverie abilities (but may still be affected by them).
Corvettes are no longer affected by Magnetic Clouds. Sounds good.

 

TEC Loyalists

Titan: Can now cast Group Shield on itself. Sounds like a very good idea.
Titan: Increased started HP from 5400 to 5500; increased starting Armor from 11 to 12. Thats arround 430 total health increase.... cant harm for sure.



TEC Rebels

Titan: AutoCannon damage increased from 110.5 to 121.52; Missile damage increased from 127.5 to 140.25. I am unsure about this... the Ragnarov already had deadly 270 degree coverage, making it even more deadly... idk.



Advent (General)

Deliverance Engine Balance Changes: YAY! FINALLY! AFTER ALL THOSE YEARS!

Cannonshell speed increased from 12000 to 36000 (moving at the speed of thought!). ZOOOOSH.... TREMBLE BEFORE THE UNITY! 
Culture Spread effect increased from 5 to 15. That should make it a little less pathetic


The 25% damage buff to Advent player owned ships will now affect incoming ships as well as those already in the gravity well when the shot hits.
Deliverance Engine shots will now reduce an enemy planet's Allegiance by 10% (stacks 3 times). That should finally do some economic damage.


Advent Loyalists

Global Unity now adds a 5% bonus to max. planet allegiance in addition to its other effects. Wonderful! Now there is finally a reason to research it.



Advent Rebels

Wail of the Sacrificed has been changed to affect all adjacent planets, ships and structures regardless of ownership. Nooo! My beloved wail! How could you?  On a more serious note, sounds like a good chance. Still very deadly, but now more difficult to use and you have to be more careful when using it... before you kill your own fleet with it. 


Titan: Chastic Burst antimatter cost increased from 70 to 80; cooldown increased from 20 to 30. Ok, ok... I will admit.... it was a bit op. Good change.
Titan: Side Beam damage reduced from 130 to 117. Allright... Eradica had tremendous firepower even without Chastic Burst, a slight reduction wont hurt.
Fixed Expulsion tech to properly give its 20% culture spread bonus. Nice fix.

Vasari Loyalists

Titan: The Maw will no longer explicitly target corvettes (though they may still be affected if caught in the ability AoE). Sounds good, that should help corvettes to deal with the Titan that otherwise will eat about anything in no time.
Titan: Increased the cooldown on The Maw from 175 to 210. Good change, considering that it is an ability that absolutly kills carrier fleets.
Titan: Starting HP increased from 4802 to 5042; HP per level decreased from 459 to 436; starting Shields increased from 2567 to 2696; Shields per level decreased from 533 to 507. Why not.

Vasari Rebels

Titan: HP per level increased from 405 to 445; Shields per level increased from 529 to 582; Armor per level increased from 0.58 to 0.64. Why not.


Rebel Starbases will now suffer from additional debuffs after a phase jump: Passive shield regeneration is decreased by 50%, Armor is reduced by 1.5 and weapon damage received is increased by 25%. Negative effects after phase jumping a Starbase now stack 3 times; debuff duration of all effects increased to 600 seconds from 60. Excellent. Finally there is punishment for using them. Especially the damage received increase is probably going to be very helpful. With 3 times stacking the Vasari player may reconsider the wisdom of jumping the starbase, especially in a row. Now more unstoppable starbases that fly right to your capital. I am still not sure if it will be enough.... but for now it without any doubt deserves further online testing.


Armor Restoration technology bonus reduced from +25% HP / +5 Armor to +15% HP / +3 Armor. YAY. EXCELLENT! With the holy op jumping orky, most people forgot about this technology. Its old values were quite op, now it is down to a very powerful buff.



Pirates

Ships spawned from bounty raids made less random and weaker earlier in the game.
Pirate raids spawned via Diplomatic mission costs adjusted for revised raid levels above (i.e., much cheaper).

 

Good!


[ Misc. ]


Fixed reported null pointer crash related to buff spawning (thanks ezeltje299).
Fixed reported null check on first spawner buffs (thanks ateague1987).
Fixed broken Pirate Exterminator Steam Achievement.
Fixed broken Outstanding Resume Steam Achievement.
Steam Cloud Saves re-enabled and should now work as intended in multiplayer games.
Checksum detection added on multiplayer saves to validate that saves aren't corrupted.

Excellent!


[ Modding ] 


Added new icons to Galaxy Forge for competitive map types. Wonderful!

 

Quoting RiddleKing,

Cannonshell speed increased from 12000 to 36000 (moving at the speed of thought!).

 

im sueing your lore team.

 

Just because your thought moves slower, doesnt mean we Advent should not have nice toys.

 

 

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 5:21:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

LOL!

 

Just added this to the OP also:

Fixed Pact related crash that would occur if a player had more than six unique Pacts established.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 5:25:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Yarlen,
LOL!

 

Just added this to the OP also:

Fixed Pact related crash that would occur if a player had more than six unique Pacts established.

 

nice catch!

 

I think in total that make it like this:

TEC Loyalist: Slight buff... badly needed

TEC Rebels: Slight buff... probably unneeded but it will likely do little harm.

Advent general: Badly needed Deliverance engine chance. Excellent!

Advent Loyalists: Slight buff, needed.

Advent Rebels: Medium nerf.... deserved

Vasari Loyalist: Maw nerfed.... perfect.

Vasari Rebels: Hard nerf, deserved

Imho we have to think about generally nerfing phase missiles sooner or later. Advent are way to vulnerable to them, giving them only poor changes in late game.

 

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 7:15:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This patch is awesome. Though I do agree with ARESIV about the phase missiles.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 7, 2012 9:35:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the VR starbase changes. It can even make sense in reasoning as taking such a huge structure through phase causes major issues and can be compounded with multiply jumps in a short time. Whether it will fix the balance issue remains to be seen.

As for phase missiles, well that is a whole different can of worms.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 12:40:21 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ARESIV,
Imho we have to think about generally nerfing phase missiles sooner or later. Advent are way to vulnerable to them, giving them only poor changes in late game.

Phase missiles where nerfed when rebellion came out

1. Max upgraded phase missiles did decreased damage or take additional techs to upgrade (depending on reb or loy)

2. Fighters ceased to use phase missiles resulting in teching it benefiting less one less type of unit

3. There are more things that give phase missile block (advent culture for example)

4. Other weapon types in general have additional tech levels without decreasing the strength of preexisting techs.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 12:58:44 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Btw, is it just me who has noticed that VR culture rate gets pretty much raped when upgrading techs? I don't know which tech it is but the culture goes down to 0.5 with 1 structure...(Not sure what caused it, so you might have fixed it in this patch)

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 2:34:01 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Guess the days of Corvette spamming will return...

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 11:16:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Interesting to see no one is weighing in on Wail changes.  I suppose shock hasn't worn off yet

All adjacent planets being affected regardless of ownership is a huge tactical revision, and will cause a new trend in adopting AR play styles.  The fact that wail had gotten to the point of being universally banned is a testament to how dynamically an impact it had on some games, but now perhaps it can be more mainstream again. 

Specifically in random map multiplayer games, losing a high pop planet is a considerable trade off depending of course on the layout of the adjacent planets, the degree to which AR (and opponents) would suffer.  Particularly with enough connected to a choke.  This, imo, is more than ample justification to roll the dice so to speak in playing, and going up against AR.  There are many suitable counters to a wail "situation", but most players simply categorically throw it under the bus.

The vulnerability of all connected planets now though poses a huge caveat, and I'm anxious to run through it in some games.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 11:33:24 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

Quoting master1a,

Quoting ARESIV, reply 15Imho we have to think about generally nerfing phase missiles sooner or later. Advent are way to vulnerable to them, giving them only poor changes in late game.

Phase missiles where nerfed when rebellion came out


1. Max upgra

Quoting master1a,

Quoting ARESIV, reply 15Imho we have to think about generally nerfing phase missiles sooner or later. Advent are way to vulnerable to them, giving them only poor changes in late game.

Phase missiles where nerfed when rebellion came out

Really? Well, if they were, clearly not enough. Vasari Rebels have one extra damage upgrade.... making the deadliest weapon in Sins even more deadly. Still only Tech 6 for them. 

1. Max upgraded phase missiles did decreased damage or take additional techs to upgrade (depending on reb or loy)

It still a level 5 military upgrade (which is btw quite cheap) that makes any other weapon upgrade in the game look like nothing. Forget TEC Rebels upgrade, forget Plasma + Energy Aura, Phase Missiles own everything. I dont know a single Vasari player that resarches any other weapon upgrade before finishing PM tech... and rightfully so. It should also be noted that this single research tree makes the entire advent shield upgrade tree absolutly worthless.



2. Fighters ceased to use phase missiles resulting in teching it benefiting less one less type of unit

Indeed and rightfully so. That still leaves bombers that massacre about anything in no time. The usual Advent VS Vasari late game battle goes the following way: Advent fleet has a high level Titan, several high level Capital ships and of course a large frigate fleet coming with it. Vasari have the same. Now, what happens? Within 1 minute of the battle the Advent Titan dies to Phase Missiles..... sometimes with over 10000 shield points remaining... within 2 minutes ALL Advent capital ships are dead.... and within 2 minutes and 10 seconds all Advent support units are dead too. The rest of the Advent fleet can only withdraw, suffering further heavy losses.

The Vasari fleet might have taken some losses to, but only in the first battle those are going to be reasonably high. After the first battle, it is an uphill battle for Advent. Advent have not only to replace more ships with the worse economic to do that. (Economic wise the Vasari can built 150 ships for Advent 100 and TEC 200, estimated late game values) Also Vasari will have surviving capital ships that rank up even further while Advent NEVER ever again is fielding any capital ship above level 4... simple because they die in no time at the first enemy contact. And dont think that even a level 10 Titan is going to change that, it never did, no matter how powerful it was.

3. There are more things that give phase missile block (advent culture for example)

Leaving the Kol aside, that btw nobody builds for this purpose there is nothing but Advent culture upgrades to block phase missiles. And the culture block sadly has several major flaws:

  • It is pathetic! Please see this topic: http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/429069
  • It does only work in your own culture (This requires total cultural domination, something Advent, not even the Loyalist will have on any remotly frontline planet. Start a game with Advent Loyalists.... resarch the 20 % damage bonus in culture..... watch your ships when it is done. Then move your ships to a frontline planet.... you have be happy if you have 10 % of that power buff from 20 %.
  • Advent increased Shield mitigation in culture is simple said worthless against an Vasari opponent. By the time the Vasari has even shot down your unupgraded shields, your ships died 3 minutes ago to hull damage from phase missiles.
  • Vasari have highly useful damage bonus in culture..... that means 6 % additional phase missile damages.... so your ships die 6 % faster.... which isnt more than a few seconds difference as they die very quickly already.
  • With luck, highly superior economic (with Advent, nearly impossible lol) you MIGHT be capable of holding the line against an Vasari. Any attack however, it pointless. Advent have nothing to deal with a digged in Vasari thanks to:

    -- Holy OP Disuptor Nanintes - see http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/430445
    -- Best Hangar defense in the game, the one that actually stops bombers
    -- Orkulus..... http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/431811
    -- and of course a nice phase tunnel which makes sure that no matter where you attack his entire fleet will be there to defend within 2 minutes, destroying you totally. (Not to mention that at this stage of the game he likely will have the highest sensor upgrade and as such knows for half an hour that your fleet is coming.)

    For your information... in my third ever Vasari MP game I hold the line against an Advent player which had over 100 games more than me. He threw everything he had at me. He lost nearly his entire fleet including is Level 6 Titan in each attack.... I lost at most 2 capital ships, some frigates and a few phase missile turrets which I placed direct in harms way to make use ofn OP Disruptor Nanites. That should not happen. I saw how well he used his fleet. Under any other circumstances he would have crushed me like a bug. In this case I was slowly killing him.... on a large map there is nothing more deadly than Kostura with a VL Titan and - even the now balanced version - of Stripped to the core.

    It should be noted that Disruptor Nanites do not stop once the ship has left the range or the gravity well. Thanks to gravity tolerance research, you can actually fly right behind him and overturn his fleeing fleet after 3 jumps..... Nothing like killing a non regenerating Titan that way.

    Of course I was lucky to some extent.... not only was the map large but until he killed one of my teammates he was quite busy on the other front, leaving me time to tech up. Still, it is imho not balanced when a fully teched Vasari can deal with Advent like all those warships are little more than toys. http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/431121





4. Other weapon types in general have additional tech levels without decreasing the strength of preexisting techs.

aded phase missiles did decreased damage or take additional techs to upgrade (depending on reb or loy)

I am sorry, I dont understand what you mean. Could you please explain?

 


4. Other weapon types in general have additional tech levels without decreasing the strength of preexisting techs.

 

I am sorry, I dont understand what you mean. Could you please explain?




I hereby recommend the following possible nerfs to phase missiles:


IDEA 1: The brutal way:

--- NERF Phase missiles hard, and I mean so hard that you can hear the Vasari scream in agony all the way back to Kron.

Question to the developers: What was your intention with the phase missile tech? Was it meant to be the bane of any Advent fleet? Or was it what I think/hope meant more as a bonus? Right now most ships die with shields close to full power. Was that your intention? Or was your intention to have some hull damage as a bonus before the shields fail? Basically the ship is damaged with active shields, but in most cases the shields of the ship have to be brought down before it can be destroyed. For example:(values simplyfied)

Normal attack to a ship with 2000 shield points and 1000 hull points.

2000 damage done, shield are down, no hull damage.... yet.


Phase Missile attack to the same ship:


2000 Phase Missile damage done, shields are down but due to shield piercing the ship has already taken 200 hull damage.



The current implementations seems to be arround 1500 shield points remaining when the hull dies to shield piercing missiles.


Change the piercing values such that its a bonus, nothing more nothing less.

Advantages of Idea 1: That would nearly certain fix the problem and is easy to implement. Values can be easily changed in the future, should they prove to weak one day. 

Disadvantage of Idea 1: Might have negative influence on Vasari TEC Balancing.... although I think Vasari are very deadly even without any phase missile tech.



IDEA 2: The medium hard way:

The most OP form of the phase missiles are the bombers. 30 Vasari Bomber wings are capable of doing damage superior to 80 TEC/Advent bomber wings.... for much lower cost. Now, I dont suggest giving phase weapons to fighters again... it is the same problem. So... either

a: Make bomber phase missiles have NO shield piercing effect at all

or

b: Make bombers have shield piercing phase missiles, BUT with CONSIDERABLE lower values than frigates and capital ships. Something like 4 stages:

Titan PM: Like now

Capital Ships PM: Slightly weaker

Orkulus PM: Like capital

Frigates PM: Slightly weaker than capital

Bomber PM: HARD NERF


 

Advantages of Idea 2: Vasari still have their high tech toy, but now at least their bombers are balanced.


Disadvantages of Idea 2: Lot of work to implement, cap ships + Titan + Orky might still kill anything with Advent markings way to quickly. Lots of work to balance all those values.



IDEA 3: Increase Phase Missile protection of Advent


1. Slight nerf to phase missiles to perfect TEC/Vasari Balancing

2. Give Advent a far higher phase missile block change. Spread it across the resarch tree to make it timely and costly.... punishing an Advent for not resarching them in time. Maximum block values should be:

 

Maximum phase missile block values:

Advent Loyalists without culture: 75 %

Advent Loyalists with culture: 95 %


Advent Rebels without culture: 65 %

Advent Rebels with culture: 85 %

 

(in the unlikely case those values are too high, they can be adjusted later. Keep in mind that you have to research a lot of stuff to have such high values. )

Research tree locations: Advent General:

General phase missile block - works always

No research = no phase missile block

Basic Shield Projection Level 1: no phase missile block

Basic Shield Projection Level 2: 5 % block

PsiTech Shield Emitters Level 1: 10 % block

PsiTech Shield Emitters Level 2: 15 % block

Potent Shield Generation Level 1: 25 % block

Potent Shield Generation Level 2: 35 % block

Raised Shield Harmonics Level 1: 50 % block

Raised Shield Harmonics Level 2: 65 % block - Possible Maximum for Advent Rebels without culture

This phase missile block works in culture only:

Unity Indoctrination  = No phase missile block

Zealous Worship Level 1: 67.5 % (65 % general block + 2.5 % in culture block)

Zealous Worship Level 2: 70 %

Unwavering Belief Level 1: 55 % block72.5 % block55 % block 55 % block

Unwavering Belief Level 2: 75 % block

Total Assimilation Level 1: 77.5 % block

Total Assimilation Level 2: 80 % block

Wall of Faith(culture resistance tech): Level 1: 82.5 % block

Wall of Faith(culture resistance tech): Level 2: 85 % block = Possible maximum for Advent Rebels in culture

Deliverance engine: No block for technology but what about giving the Deliverance engine a buff that gives 100 % phase missile block for 5 minutes in the gravity well that was hit? Would no doubt sell any Advent player I know to build the thing for a change.

Advent Loyalists Techs that further increase general Phase missile block:

Ancient Retribution: 90 % block (5 % block increase)

Advent Loyalists Techs that further increase  Phase missile block in culturein culture:

Global Unity Level 1: 92.5 % block (2.5 block increase)(2.5 % block increase) (2.5 % block increase)

Global Unity Level 2: 95 % block (2.5 block increase)

 

(2.5 % block increase)

 

Advantages of Idea 3:


Better gameplay.... right now it is 100 % certain that the Vasari has all phase missile upgrades. That makes having the anti tech an absolute necessity. Now if phase missiles werent so impressive anymore against fully researched block, the Vasari might consider other ways of teching up. Which in turn will make the Advent become overconfident until the Vasari can severerly punish that overconfidence again. It would add depth... you have to anticipate what your enemies is doing a bit more. Makes bomber spam a bit less viable, giving the other factions more breathing room to build something different instead of hoping on a miracle that those 60 fighter wings will stop those 40 phase missile bomber wings before they destroy everything.


Makes the culture resarch more viable.... the current phase missile block implemantation is not worth the money.

Makes "Raised Shield Harmonics" useful against Vasari..... instead of being mildy annoying to TEC or Advent only.

Makes the Motherships "Restore Shields" Ability actually useful against the Vasari. Right now, it is a total waste of XP points on it if you face an Vasari opponent.

 


 

Disadvantages of Idea 3: Lots of work to implement, Vasari bomber wing still very deadly against TEC. Adjusting of the values probably means that every mentioned research file has to be modified.


That values are of course up for further discussion... but please keep in mind that Advent

-- have less ships than Vasari

-- donts stand a remote change in late game when all your synergies are killed within 30 seconds

-- need to be capable of attacking a digged in Vasari with acceptable losses... high... but acceptable



If phase missiles are nerfed, and they surely need it, balancing would be vastly improved imho. Right now if the Vasari manages to survive to very late game Advent are simple screwed.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 9:06:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Protoplazm,
Interesting to see no one is weighing in on Wail changes.

I for one absolutely love this change.  It keeps its destruction potential and in most cases greatly increases the cost of using it.  Although I suspect Shield Bestowal will become a very important tech for the Advent Rebels to keep their structures alive through a Wail.

Quoting GoaFan77,
Same, 10 minutes might be a long enough buff to make a difference. But it will take players more skilled tactically than me to determine if it's decisive or not.

Another thing that struck me is that you can avoid a lot of the stacking of these debuffs by using the Orkie in conjunction with a Kostura shot.  However that would require that you maintain a total of 16 labs which should push it to late game.  It also strikes me that this change is going to have a much greater affect on MP games where things happen very quickly.  In the SP games I've play using VR (and against the higher AI levels), I'm usually advancing pretty slowly from one planet to the next with my Orkie and fleet.  It probably takes me 10 minutes to take each planet, in which case the debuffs wouldn't stack anyways.

Quoting Ryat,
As for phase missiles, well that is a whole different can of worms.

I really haven't heard anyone complain that Phase Missiles on Assailants are overpowered - its only the bombers.  If this is true, then maybe you could 1) nerf the damage output of the Vasari bombers or 2) buff Telekinetic Push against the Vasari.  Point 2 could be accomplished by changing it to do a percentage of total hull point of damage against strikecraft.  That way they would do more damage against the beefier Vasari bombers without becoming overpowered against the other races strikecraft.  Either of these changes could be made relatively easily.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 8, 2012 9:53:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Bama498,

Quoting Protoplazm, reply 21Interesting to see no one is weighing in on Wail changes.



Quoting Ryat, reply 17As for phase missiles, well that is a whole different can of worms.

I really haven't heard anyone complain that Phase Missiles on Assailants are overpowered - its only the bombers.  If this is true, then maybe you could 1) nerf the damage output of the Vasari bombers or 2) buff Telekinetic Push against the Vasari.  Point 2 could be accomplished by changing it to do a percentage of total hull point of damage against strikecraft.  That way they would do more damage against the beefier Vasari bombers without becoming overpowered against the other races strikecraft.  Either of these changes could be made relatively easily.

 

Well I certainly agree it's primarily bombers that are the issue.  The problem is it would take a pretty substantial damage hit to bring vasari bombers in line with the other races.   If we use the assumption that assailants are balanced as our baseline, vasari bombers would need to take something like a 25-30% DPS reduction(down from 17*ish* per squad to around 12.5).

Seriously though, that is why assailants are balanced- they compensate for their superior weapon techs by having 25-30% less DPS per supply then their nearest analogue(the Javelis).  By contrast  Vasari bombers have pretty much the same DPS as the other races despite their vastly superior weapon techs.

It doesn't help that vasari bombers are also the hardest to kill- but the core of the problem lies with phase missiles.  

That said though, while the Advent feel it most keenly, I don't think the problem is unique to them.  the fact of the matter is that Vasari Bombers hit the critical mass necessary to be flying-doom for any capitalship at a substantially lower number of carriers then the other factions.  And being that bombers in general are already eternally straddling the line between balanced and too strong, having one faction's bombers head and shoulders above the others seems a poor balance proposition.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 10, 2012 7:21:30 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The changes to the VR starbase seem to be in the right direction.  I agree that we should play test this update for awhile, as I think the nerfs brought by v1.04 and v1.1 should effectively bring VR back in balance.

Also, it appears Wail has been effectively nerfed into oblivion.  Not quite sure I agree with the change, and I'm a Vasari player that has been on the wrong end of Wail multiple times.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
November 10, 2012 7:30:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Howdidudothat,
Also, it appears Wail has been effectively nerfed into oblivion. Not quite sure I agree with the change, and I'm a Vasari player that has been on the wrong end of Wail multiple times.

I'm mainly an Advent Rebel player, and I think that's going to be an exaggeration. As long as your fleet is at the planet you trigger wail at it is still perfectly safe to use. Maybe a fully upgraded terran might be a threat to structures, but anything less can certainly tank the damage from it, especially with repair bays and shield bestowal. All this change does is give you a chance to really screw yourself or an ally over if you're not paying attention, or if you're trying to retreat into wail range and an enemy fleet is chasing you.

Reason for Karma (Optional)
Successfully updated karma reason!
Stardock Forums v1.0.0.0    #108431  walnut1   Server Load Time: 00:00:00.0002109   Page Render Time: