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BUG - since update

By on June 6, 2013 8:02:18 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

DarthRico

Join Date 05/2013
+1

Ever since the update yesterday my VR starbases won't phase jump to any other gravity well and I get a message that says I can't jump the starbase there because I already have a starbase in that gravity well when I DONT.

 

and yes I upgraded the ability...this is a bug...FIX IT!

It was bad enough I got hit with this update that broke my saved games out of nowhere but now I have to deal with bugs that prevent my gameplay.

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June 6, 2013 8:09:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's not a bug it's a feature...they can now only jump to gravity wells connected by phase nodes...

This was an important change in order to balance the otherwise grossly OP VR...if you want the old system back you will need to do it with a mod...

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June 6, 2013 8:23:48 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

well this crap blows....I just fracking bought this game...find a game play that I enjoy and oops nope you can't play that way...thanks for your money.  un fracking believable!!!!

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June 6, 2013 9:14:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DarthRico,

well this crap blows....I just fracking bought this game...find a game play that I enjoy and oops nope you can't play that way...thanks for your money.  un fracking believable!!!!

 

Your anger is understandable and I am sorry that you found yourself on the wrong end of a balancing change.

 

Please try to understand that people were abusing the jumping Starbases in multiplayer to a degree that made nerfing them a necessity.

 

The developers tried all lower measures without being successful.

 

And so for a long time, the Vasari Rebels were not allowed in Multiplayer Games.

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June 6, 2013 9:32:36 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DarthRico,

well this crap blows....I just fracking bought this game...find a game play that I enjoy and oops nope you can't play that way...thanks for your money.  un fracking believable!!!!

With some Kostura cannons you can still send an upgraded starbase with your attack force, as they create a phase stabilizer node at the planet they are fired at.

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June 6, 2013 9:48:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,


Quoting DarthRico, reply 2
well this crap blows....I just fracking bought this game...find a game play that I enjoy and oops nope you can't play that way...thanks for your money.  un fracking believable!!!!

With some Kostura cannons you can still send an upgraded starbase with your attack force, as they create a phase stabilizer node at the planet they are fired at.
You can also use the Marauder...I haven't messed with the SB Mobilization again yet...but from the sound of things, the devs do need to fix the error message so people won't get confused.

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June 6, 2013 9:50:31 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
if you want the old system back you will need to do it with a mod...

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June 6, 2013 10:00:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DarthRico,

well this crap blows....I just fracking bought this game...find a game play that I enjoy and oops nope you can't play that way...thanks for your money.  un fracking believable!!!!

 

Uh, this is a good change.  The vasari were way over the top before that, and a lot of people asked for re-balancing as a result. Quit your whining.

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June 7, 2013 2:34:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting caffinate,
Quit your whining.

His objection is completely reasonable, and your response is inappropriate.  This is a case where a change made to benefit a small community (the multiplayers) may have been unnecessary or even counterproductive from the perspective the vast majority of the Sins community who just enjoy or only have time to play vs. the AI.

It is what it is, but you have no reason to be such a nerf-herder about it.

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June 7, 2013 2:49:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting HLT,


Quoting caffinate, reply 7Quit your whining.

His objection is completely reasonable, and your response is inappropriate.  This is a case where a change made to benefit a small community (the multiplayers) may have been unnecessary or even counterproductive from the perspective the vast majority of the Sins community who just enjoy or only have time to play vs. the AI.

It is what it is, but you have no reason to be such a nerf-herder about it.

To be fair, even for single players the jumping starbase is basically an I win button. It's also something single players can never appreciate because they've never been on the receiving end; the AI will never use jumping starbases. Thus while it might be understandable that some people are mad because a technology that has only ever given them victory but has never been used against them has been nerfed, but that is not a particularly good reason not to change it even from a single player gameplay perspective.

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June 7, 2013 3:14:04 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

>>>GoaFan77:  as ever the diplomat, but I think you miss my main point, which is that the tone of the response was inappropriate. 

If the goal is to chase away all new players, then Caffinate's strategery was right on target.  My comment was intended to let Darth Rico know that we don't all have Asperger's, however.  That way perhaps he'll keep coming back to ask questions, offer comments, and continue to play the game. 

Heck, he might even decide to try multiplayer some day.  S'okay with me.

I forgot to mention, though, that I also sympathize with him about the most recent auto-update.  Suddenly, the two games I was in the middle of became unplayable.  A few wasted hours there, no doubt about it.

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June 7, 2013 4:44:22 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I shall reiterate a point made earlier...

"...if you want the old system back you will need to do it with a mod..."

No one is preventing a player from wantonly jumping Orkies everywhere...the original modifier is still in the game, all you have to do is change one line in one game file to play as you wish....

There is a researchSubject entity for starbase mobilization...change the researchbool at the bottom to the original and you are in good shape..

For future reference, SD posts their changelogs weeks in advance of save-breaking updates...these changelogs clearly state in big bold letters that the update will break saves...if you don't want to be surprised, you can either 1) visit the forum frequently or 2) turn off automatic updates....

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June 7, 2013 9:11:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting caffinate,
Quit your whining.

 

There is no reason to be rude.

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June 7, 2013 10:49:28 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'll just ignore the one rude person.  From the rest of the comments I can see that this community is mainly populated by cool peeps.  Sorry about my rant but I will try to explain where I was coming from.

Up until about 2 weeks ago I had not played sins since the original game which I had bought on disk of the shelf at target.  That version of the game did not require the use of Steam nor did it have automatic update (at least if it did it did not have it turned on by default). A couple of weeks ago a co-worker told me about all the new stuff in Rebellion and also showed me the star trek mod for the game. 

My plan was to plan Rebellion as is until I got bored and then get the star trek mod as I'm a big star trek fan.

So I purchase and download the game directly from this site....install it...try to launch and play it.  First disappointment, it won't run because I don't have a Steam account.  Ok, so I go and create a Steam account, install steam...set up my Sins Rebellion within Steam....Second disappointment, Steam is to stupid to see that I already downloaded and install the game so it had to download and install it AGAIN.

After finally getting everything set up so I can actually play the game I spend about a week and a half playing tiny maps with each race and each faction so that I can decide which one I like playing the most.  And since I was excited about playing this new game, it never crossed my mind that I should spend my time outside of the game reading the forums to see if the devs did anything stupid like turn on automatic updates by default if it was going to break saved games.

So I am in the middle of a vast map that is turning out to be an awesome and really fun game and on the fourth day of playing that game...BOOM...automatic update, and I lose the game I was in.  Now some of you may be used to including forum time in your gaming experience.  But for people who are just interested in playing single player that is not the case.  I only came to this forum looking for information on something that I thought was a bug.  At no time during installation was I notified about the automatic updates or given the option to turn them off.

So I start another game...spend hours building up and upgrading...then I'm ready to begin my assault and I find out that every reason that I chose VS rebels to play with have now been removed as a game play option.  So now I am back to where I was on the first day I got the game and have to figure out which race I want to play with now as it feels like the VS Rebels had all their weapons taken away and replaced with teddy bears and when playing them my mission is to spread hearts and rainbows through the galaxy.

 

Overall my point is that the devs seems to have set up this game only thinking about the people who play multiplayer and  completely ignored the single players who just want to play the game.  Something I really think needs to be addressed.

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June 7, 2013 11:04:35 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DarthRico,
Overall my point is that the devs seems to have set up this game only thinking about the people who play multiplayer and completely ignored the single players who just want to play the game. Something I really think needs to be addressed.

And you would amazed at the comments made by the small mulitplayer community in the same regard. The battle between SPs and MPs can get very heated here.

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June 7, 2013 11:14:16 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,


Quoting DarthRico, reply 13Overall my point is that the devs seems to have set up this game only thinking about the people who play multiplayer and completely ignored the single players who just want to play the game. Something I really think needs to be addressed.

And you would amazed at the comments made by the small mulitplayer community in the same regard. The battle between SPs and MPs can get very heated here.

 

Well from what I can see the muliplayers want the entire game reprogrammed so that the single player can not enjoy the game....as a single player all I would have wanted to avoid this mess it a simple little message during install telling me that automatic updates will break your game and give the option to turn them on or off.

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June 7, 2013 11:23:24 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,


Quoting DarthRico, reply 2
well this crap blows....I just fracking bought this game...find a game play that I enjoy and oops nope you can't play that way...thanks for your money.  un fracking believable!!!!

With some Kostura cannons you can still send an upgraded starbase with your attack force, as they create a phase stabilizer node at the planet they are fired at.

Good idea! Thanks, I'll try that.

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June 7, 2013 11:27:38 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,
Overall my point is that the devs seems to have set up this game only thinking about the people who play multiplayer and  completely ignored the single players who just want to play the game.  Something I really think needs to be addressed.

This simply isn't true. Overpowered elements in Single Player games limit the strategies players use. There are lots of game design articles in this regard. As Seleuceia pointed out this change would have been made LONG ago had the AI been updated to ACTUALLY use mobilization. It quite simply is a game breaking mechanic. 

Quoting DarthRico,
Well from what I can see the muliplayers want the entire game reprogrammed so that the single player can not enjoy the game....as a single player all I would have wanted to avoid this mess it a simple little message during install telling me that automatic updates will break your game and give the option to turn them on or off.

Any balance changes that support multi-player inherently support single-player. And most major patches no matter what reason they are made for with Sins will break save games. In that regard when you start playing mods PLEASE be sure to make a complete copy of the rebellion directory (rename the folder to reflect the sins version or w/e). With the copy you will be protected from w/e updates SD makes as well as being able to play the latest version via the Steam update.

 

And to be fair... You were only playing for two weeks while this has been an EXTREME issue being hashed back and forth since deployment with MANY stop gaps attempted that never materialized into a workable solution. I frankly applaud SD for making a necessary change for gameplay balance reason despite the obvious desire some had to include this element.

 

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June 7, 2013 11:36:33 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ZombiesRus5,


Quoting Ryat, reply 14Overall my point is that the devs seems to have set up this game only thinking about the people who play multiplayer and  completely ignored the single players who just want to play the game.  Something I really think needs to be addressed.

This simply isn't true. Overpowered elements in Single Player games limit the strategies players use. There are lots of game design articles in this regard. As Seleuceia pointed out this change would have been made LONG ago had the AI been updated to ACTUALLY use mobilization. It quite simply is a game breaking mechanic. 


Quoting DarthRico, reply 15Well from what I can see the muliplayers want the entire game reprogrammed so that the single player can not enjoy the game....as a single player all I would have wanted to avoid this mess it a simple little message during install telling me that automatic updates will break your game and give the option to turn them on or off.

Any balance changes that support multi-player inherently support single-player. And most major patches no matter what reason they are made for with Sins will break save games. In that regard when you start playing mods PLEASE be sure to make a complete copy of the rebellion directory (rename the folder to reflect the sins version or w/e). With the copy you will be protected from w/e updates SD makes as well as being able to play the latest version via the Steam update.

 

And to be fair... You were only playing for two weeks while this has been an EXTREME issue being hashed back and forth since deployment with MANY stop gaps attempted that never materialized into a workable solution. I frankly applaud SD for making a necessary change for gameplay balance reason despite the obvious desire some had to include this element.

 

 

That all may be true but my main point here is that messages posted on a website and or forum should not be assumed will be read by people who do not play multiplayer and game breaking aspects needs to be included as a notification during install.  This is not something that would require months of development...I am a developer and I can tell you this could have been done in under five mins time.

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June 7, 2013 11:40:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ZombiesRus5,


This simply isn't true. Overpowered elements in Single Player games limit the strategies players use. There are lots of game design articles in this regard. As Seleuceia pointed out this change would have been made LONG ago had the AI been updated to ACTUALLY use mobilization. It quite simply is a game breaking mechanic. 


 

 

One thing I don't understand is people saying the AI could not use mobilization.  One of the first games I play against a VR AI did in fact warp in a starbase to my gravity well.  Granted it only happened once but it did happen.

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June 7, 2013 1:47:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting HLT,


Quoting caffinate, reply 7Quit your whining.

His objection is completely reasonable, and your response is inappropriate.  This is a case where a change made to benefit a small community (the multiplayers) may have been unnecessary or even counterproductive from the perspective the vast majority of the Sins community who just enjoy or only have time to play vs. the AI.

It is what it is, but you have no reason to be such a nerf-herder about it.

 

His objection is not reasonable, because he is obviously not in full possession of the facts.  I mean, he started this argument with a "FIX THE BUG" statement, and then got indignant when it was explained to him that it was changed because it's an extreme balance issue in gameplay.  Even then, it wasn't actually removed, the behavior was just significantly altered.

Even in a single player context, with mobile phase jumping starbases, I can win on the hardest possible difficulty level in single player mode just by defending long enough to get my first fully upgraded starbase.  then it's not even fun, it's just a process of assault with starbase, build new starbase, upgrade planet I just got, rinse repeat.  There's no deep strategy involved in this tactic, and it's incredibly hard to repel.

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June 7, 2013 1:50:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting HLT,

>>>GoaFan77:  as ever the diplomat, but I think you miss my main point, which is that the tone of the response was inappropriate. 

If the goal is to chase away all new players, then Caffinate's strategery was right on target.  My comment was intended to let Darth Rico know that we don't all have Asperger's, however.  That way perhaps he'll keep coming back to ask questions, offer comments, and continue to play the game. 

Heck, he might even decide to try multiplayer some day.  S'okay with me.

I forgot to mention, though, that I also sympathize with him about the most recent auto-update.  Suddenly, the two games I was in the middle of became unplayable.  A few wasted hours there, no doubt about it.

 

I don't have a problem with questions, but he didn't ask a question.  He made an assumption, and when the reason was explained to him he started to get rude and hostile.

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June 7, 2013 1:55:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting caffinate,


I don't have a problem with questions, but he didn't ask a question.  He made an assumption, and when the reason was explained to him he became hostile and began making demands.

 

Wrong again...you are the only one making any assumptions or becoming hostile.  And if pointing out that a simple text notification to players about a game breaking aspect of the game needs to be added to the installation process is (which is just plain common sense) is what you call "making demands"...so be it.

But thanks for trolling the thread anyway.

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June 7, 2013 2:03:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting caffinate,
Even in a single player context, with mobile phase jumping starbases, I can win on the hardest possible difficulty level in single player mode just by defending long enough to get my first fully upgraded starbase. then it's not even fun, it's just a process of assault with starbase, build new starbase, upgrade planet I just got, rinse repeat. There's no deep strategy involved in this tactic, and it's incredibly hard to repel.

 

OH NO!  You could actually win the game on the hardest possible difficulty level. Well that explains the need to take this out of the game.  We certainly can't have people winning the game.  Thanks for explaining that sparky...LOL

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June 7, 2013 2:11:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DarthRico,


Quoting caffinate, reply 20Even in a single player context, with mobile phase jumping starbases, I can win on the hardest possible difficulty level in single player mode just by defending long enough to get my first fully upgraded starbase. then it's not even fun, it's just a process of assault with starbase, build new starbase, upgrade planet I just got, rinse repeat. There's no deep strategy involved in this tactic, and it's incredibly hard to repel.

 

OH NO!  You could actually win the game on the hardest possible difficulty level. Well that explains the need to take this out of the game.  We certainly can't have people winning the game.  Thanks for explaining that sparky...LOL

 

Weren't you just complaining a short while ago about people being rude?  Pot, meet kettle.  The point is that it's a thoughtless way to win that doesn't offer any significant challenge which one would expect when playing on the hardest possible difficulty.  You don't understand this because clearly you haven't played the game enough yet.

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June 7, 2013 2:12:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting DarthRico,
That all may be true but my main point here is that messages posted on a website and or forum should not be assumed will be read by people who do not play multiplayer and game breaking aspects needs to be included as a notification during install.  This is not something that would require months of development...I am a developer and I can tell you this could have been done in under five mins time.

I probably have vastly more software development experience than you. But lets assume you are a developer then you should understand the update process is managed by Steam. You have an option to no update. As a developer and educated software/hardware user the first thing I do is investigate the systems I use. Right click see properties, what do said properties do. Possibly google for issues people have run into with steam, etc. 

Further it's not uncommon for any level of patching to break save games in any game. 

I'm actually a little bothered that you say you are a developer but don't take the necessary steps to research and protect yourself.

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