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[Rebellion] Balance Suggestions

By on July 17, 2013 4:46:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

ZombiesRus5

Join Date 02/2009
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I think the game is close to a decent balance for competitive play- but I think these might set the final stage for rounding Rebellion's balance for PvP play. 

Agree/Disagree? 

 

Also, pay special attention to the Desperation comments.

TEC

TEC Loyalists

Ability: Disruption Matrix - Change over time damage per level from 40/50/60/70 to a flat 70/70/70/70. The increase in damage is handled by the finish condition.

TEC Rebel

Research: Refined Emitters - Change Damage Increase from one level of 5% to 2 levels of 7.5% (gives total laser damage upgrades to 35%).


ADVENT

Ability: Animosity - Modify BuffTaunt from PrioritizeOldBuffs to PrioritizeNewBuffs (Actually makes Animosity dangerous)

Ability: Psionic Scream - Modify BuffPsionicScreamAOESilence to include instantAction of DoInterrupt

Ability: Domination - Remove Corvette from constraint list (just seems pointless for an ultimate capable of stealing ONE ship)


Advent Loyalists

Research: Assimilated Populace - Reduce level from 4 to 2 and place under Call of the Unity (free spot). This research should support early expansion which is not possible with it being a tier 4 research.

Ability: Subjugating Assault - Increase experiencePercentageToAward to 100%. Add RestoreHullPointsPerc and RestoreShieldPointsPerc. As it is now you likely steal frigates for 50% experience to lose them back for 100% experience to original owner due to low health (you are after-all shooting them to steal them). See Boarding party ability for an example of restore shields and hull after stealing the unit.

Advent Rebel

Research: Mass Communion - Reduce level from 3 to 1. This is similar in nature to TEC's Modular Architecture but with less economic impact. Reducing the level would warrant actually researching it.


VASARI

Frigate: Skirmisher - This unit is severely undermatched compared to the other factions. Increase damage by 10%.

Bomber - This unit is severely overpowered. Decrease overall squad damage from 17.0888893 to 15.3800004. This would put Advent bombers out front followed by TEC then Vasari. Though the gap would quickly balance out with Vasari's cheaper and far more productive phase missiles. No more whining about phase missiles after this is done.

alternative: proposed by Greg30007

"I suggested replacement of weapon type on bombers with what vasari HC have. That way all races need to go trough shields If they decide to go bomber spam."


Ability: Disruptor NanitesReduce duration of passive regen from 5 minutes to 60 seconds.

Vasari Loyalist

Ability: Desperation - This ability is far to powerful to be a passive. In fact if you look at the history of this ability it was originally two different abilities: Suffusion and Desperation. Suffusion the original damage dealing ability was AM based. They were merged at some point but left as the Desperation passive. This ability should be modified to be AM based similar to the original Suffusion ability or an AM drain type of ability might work too (BTW: the 1.5 change log apparently has this confused to as there is no 15 second finish condition in Desperation: Change Log: Desperation (Vorastra Titan) no longer affects Corvettes; duration decreased from 45 to 15.)

Ability: Maw - Fix it to target and destroy intended # of frigates.


Vasari Rebel

Research: Advanced NME Warheads - Decrease upgrade per level from 10% to 5%.

Research: All for One: Decrease damage from 10% to 2.5% per allied empire present in the current gravity well.

Ability: Nano Leech - I'd like to see the engines on the Titan disabled when this ability is active.

 

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July 17, 2013 5:00:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

TEC Rebel

I'm beginning to think TEC Rebels need much more help than that. Has anyone ever seen liberated resistance do anything worth mentioning?

This unit is severely undermatched compared to the other factions. Increase hull/shield and damage by 10%.

Skirmishers have self repair though.

(BTW: the 1.5 change log apparently has this confused to as there is no 15 second finish condition in Desperation: Change Log: Desperation (Vorastra Titan) no longer affects Corvettes; duration decreased from 45 to 15.)

I think it referred to the damage reduction it gets? Not entirely sure.

All for One: Decrease damage from 10% to 2.5% per allied empire present in the current gravity well.

Is this tech really causing problems?

I'd like to see the engines on the Titan disabled when this ability is active.

Again, is the Kultorask's mobility really causing enough balance problems to justify this?

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July 17, 2013 5:17:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the Skirmishers as they are to be honest. One on one with the other light frigates they wreck them, I think it's more a cost issue but I agree there is something. Just my thoughts.

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July 17, 2013 7:00:40 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

You forgot to mention the disruptor nanites. It is part of the "dirty tricks" that makes vasari OP late game. The vasari HCs need a buff too, I think somebody did a test a couple months back that showed they were severely underpowered.

If you want to buff the skirmishers, then orkulus needs a slight nerf, as it is supposed to compensate for the comparatively weak LFs/vettes.

Also, why would you make mass communion tier 1? The culture center upgrade requires two civ labs. Maybe you meant to say tier two?

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July 17, 2013 10:06:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
TEC Rebel
I'm beginning to think TEC Rebels need much more help than that. Has anyone ever seen liberated resistance do anything worth mentioning?

No, and to be honest I classify that as cosplay flavor tech. There's quite a few of those in this game.

Quoting GoaFan77,
This unit is severely undermatched compared to the other factions. Increase hull/shield and damage by 10%.

Skirmishers have self repair though.

That ability will absorb 16/24 dps for 20 seconds after it reaches 50% hull damage. This typically means the unit is being focused fired which takes away potentially 4-5 frigates worth of dps after 60% mitigation.

Even with a 10% bump in these stats the Skirmisher still remains the weakest light frigate per supply.

Quoting GoaFan77,
(BTW: the 1.5 change log apparently has this confused to as there is no 15 second finish condition in Desperation: Change Log: Desperation (Vorastra Titan) no longer affects Corvettes; duration decreased from 45 to 15.)
I think it referred to the damage reduction it gets? Not entirely sure.

I double verified. The damage reduction is 10 seconds. The unused BuffSuffosionSelf was reduced to 15 (oops)

Quoting GoaFan77,
All for One: Decrease damage from 10% to 2.5% per allied empire present in the current gravity well.
Is this tech really causing problems?

It takes a while for people to catch on. Is it really appropriate for VR to get a 40% damage buff by having a scout from each ally attached to their main fleet?

Quoting GoaFan77,
I'd like to see the engines on the Titan disabled when this ability is active.
Again, is the Kultorask's mobility really causing enough balance problems to justify this?

I was healing my VR titan at some ridiculous 300+ hull/sec yesterday! The finish condition is out of range- it would make sense if you can move out of range.

Quoting WOEaintME,

I like the Skirmishers as they are to be honest. One on one with the other light frigates they wreck them, I think it's more a cost issue but I agree there is something. Just my thoughts.

You don't compare frigates 1v1. You compare them per supply. Vasari is the worst per supply light frigate in the bunch.

Quoting Sinkillr,
You forgot to mention the disruptor nanites. It is part of the "dirty tricks" that makes vasari OP late game. The vasari HCs need a buff too, I think somebody did a test a couple months back that showed they were severely underpowered.

True, I've had trouble convincing Yarlen it's an issue.

Quoting Sinkillr,
If you want to buff the skirmishers, then orkulus needs a slight nerf, as it is supposed to compensate for the comparatively weak LFs/vettes.

Idk, the weakness of light frigates was always overshadowed by the overuse of long range frigates pre-rebellion. Afterall vanilla sins didn't have starbases.

Quoting Sinkillr,
Also, why would you make mass communion tier 1? The culture center upgrade requires two civ labs. Maybe you meant to say tier two?

It's tier 3 right now. It's really too expensive for something you only need a few of. Even if you get Wail- you'll only need one on high pop planets. It makes sense to have it at 1 lab level like the TEC modular architecture research which has far more utility associated with it.

 

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July 18, 2013 11:53:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Updated for disruptor nanites and Greg's suggestion for Bombers.

His suggestion makes sense as it was the reason provided for changing fighters from phase missiles to pulse guns.

 

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July 18, 2013 1:21:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

TEC Loyalists

Ability: Disruption Matrix - Change over time damage per level from 40/50/60/70 to a flat 70/70/70/70. The increase in damage is handled by the finish condition.[/quote]

 

Partially agree. With always doing the same amount of damage, there is not much reason to get a higher level for it. The ability interupt works always, but the duration of the ability disable is way to short to justify higher levels imho.

 

 

TEC Rebel

Research: Refined Emitters - Change Damage Increase from one level of 5% to 2 levels of 7.5% (gives total laser damage upgrades to 35%).

 

That would not affect the Ragnarov, intended? Personally I would rather see a Rail gun buff..... those defense tree gaus upgrades make the main weapon of the Ragnarov such umimpressive in comparsion.

 

 

Ability: Animosity - Modify BuffTaunt from PrioritizeOldBuffs to PrioritizeNewBuffs (Actually makes Animosity dangerous)

 

Sounds good.

 

Ability: Psionic Scream - Modify BuffPsionicScreamAOESilence to include instantAction of DoInterrupt

Great idea!

 

Ability: Domination - Remove Corvette from constraint list (just seems pointless for an ultimate capable of stealing ONE ship)

Cant hurt.

 

Research: Assimilated Populace - Reduce level from 4 to 2 and place under Call of the Unity (free spot). This research should support early expansion which is not possible with it being a tier 4 research.

 

That would help to make the Advent Loyalist more dangerous in early game, I am in support.

 

Ability: Subjugating Assault - Increase experiencePercentageToAward to 100%. Add RestoreHullPointsPerc and RestoreShieldPointsPerc. As it is now you likely steal frigates for 50% experience to lose them back for 100% experience to original owner due to low health (you are after-all shooting them to steal them). See Boarding party ability for an example of restore shields and hull after stealing the unit.

 

Excellent idea, you already give the enemy XP with Corward Submission, altough that is at least a costly one.

 

Research: Mass Communion - Reduce level from 3 to 1. This is similar in nature to TEC's Modular Architecture but with less economic impact. Reducing the level would warrant actually researching it.

 

Cant harm.

 

Frigate: Skirmisher - This unit is severely undermatched compared to the other factions. Increase hull/shield and damage by 10%.

 

Maybe Orky rushing or digging in wont be so tempting anymore with a average LF. I am in support.

 

 

Bomber - This unit is severely overpowered. Decrease overall squad damage from 17.0888893 to 15.3800004. This would put Advent bombers out front followed by TEC then Vasari. Though the gap would quickly balance out with Vasari's cheaper and far more productive phase missiles. No more whining about phase missiles after this is done.

alternative: proposed by Greg30007

"I suggested replacement of weapon type on bombers with what vasari HC have. That way all races need to go trough shields If they decide to go bomber spam.

 

Imho the damage nerf you proposed would be to insignificant to make much of a difference without other major changes (better phase missile block technology, significant higher carrier cost and supply use).

 

I would prefer Greg30007 idea, that would fix the issue immediatly.

 

Ability: Disruptor Nanites - Reduce duration of passive regen from 5 minutes to 60 seconds.

Quoting Sinkillr,

You forgot to mention the disruptor nanites. It is part of the "dirty tricks" that makes vasari OP late game. The vasari HCs need a buff too, I think somebody did a test a couple months back that showed they were severely underpowered.

True, I've had trouble convincing Yarlen it's an issue.

 

YARLEN!!!!!!

 

The Ankylon Titan has a Ability disable for 17 seconds at most..... you cannot give a cheap, lousy turret something much more powerful. Vasari Defense is formidable enough, moving Orkies, Phase Stabilizer that allows to call in entire fleet for support, Hangar Defenses with phasic trap.

 

30 seconds duration... at most!

 

Ability: Desperation - This ability is far to powerful to be a passive. In fact if you look at the history of this ability it was originally two different abilities: Suffusion and Desperation. Suffusion the original damage dealing ability was AM based. They were merged at some point but left as the Desperation passive. This ability should be modified to be AM based similar to the original Suffusion ability or an AM drain type of ability might work too (BTW: the 1.5 change log apparently has this confused to as there is no 15 second finish condition in Desperation: Change Log: Desperation (Vorastra Titan) no longer affects Corvettes; duration decreased from 45 to 15.)

I agree

 

Ability: Maw - Fix it to target and destroy intended # of frigates.

 

Any change of a hotfix?

 

Research: Advanced NME Warheads - Decrease upgrade per level from 10% to 5%.

 

Absolutely... even with Bomber hopefully not having Phase Missiles in the future, Kanraks dont need a buff.

 

Quoting GoaFan77,
All for One: Decrease damage from 10% to 2.5% per allied empire present in the current gravity well.

Is this tech really causing problems?

 

Not yet, but if you think about it, the consequences are staggering. 40 % damage increase is huge and its not like Vasari have a firepower problem to begin with, even without phase missiles.

 

 

Quoting GoaFan77,
I'd like to see the engines on the Titan disabled when this ability is active.

Again, is the Kultorask's mobility really causing enough balance problems to justify this?

 

Uncertain at the moment..... rarely see VR online anymore.... although that could be due to the VL still being OP. I think the developers should first implement the other changes and then we can see if it is still a problem.

 

 

 

Own additional suggestions:

 

TEC:

Loyalist:

Grant small antimatter regeneration to Furios Defense, higher in own gravity wells. Reason: No other Titan can be drained so easily of antimatter and no other Titan suffers as heavily from it.

Advanced Maneuvering: Grant Loyalist a second level of it or at least increase Maneuvability of the Ankylon a bit, the smallest Titan should have a slight advantage in that field and it would also help it a bit from a balancing standpoint.

Increase arc of the Ankylon beams so that they can support the broadside lasers. E4X Mod already has a working version of it already and it does help a lot.

 

Compartmentalisation: Buff 20 % cost decrease to 40 %, starbases are still very expensive, reducing the real game impact of Twin Fortresses.

 

 

Rebel:

Remove Defensive Gaus turret upgrades or replace them with a Rail gun upgrade. Currently the Ragnarov has some impressive side damage for a frontloaded gun ship, as autocannons and gaus guns are usually supporting each other on the sides.

The rail gun itself doesnt do much more damage than the 8 puny gaus guns at the front. One does wonder why the even bothered with it, 2 gaus turrets more and they actually outgun the rail gun.

 

 

Advent

 

Give Advent a culture independent phase missile block technology that makes phase missiles a bonus and not a execution weapon for Vasari. Or nerf Phase missiles as described in the Vasari section.

 

Loyalist: Remove temple of communion alltogheter and replace with Global Unity. No point in building a temple, when you can have for free.

 

Rebel: Consider making the 1 strike craft Titan research into 1 squadron research instead, so that the Hangar defense would have 4 squadrons.

 

 

Vasari:

Nerf Phase Missiles.... I am serious.

Stilakus Subverter: Decrease shield mitigation harm from 10 % to 5 %. 10 % is an effective 30 % increase in firepower. Also, there is a bug, instead of allowing 25 % of phase missiles to bypass shields, it allows 25 % off ALL weapon fire trough the shields..... thats insane.

Think about reducing Orky movement speed

Reduce shield restore rate of "Power Surge" on the Kortul and/or reduce AM drain of the passive ability Disruptive Strike"

 

Loyalist:

Civilian evacuations should create tax income from Titan, too.

SttC: If possible, an outside indication for stripping in process, would be nice for the enemy to know.

 

Rebel:

Nothing that has not been mentioned already.

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July 18, 2013 2:19:38 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ARESIV,
TEC Loyalists

Ability: Disruption Matrix - Change over time damage per level from 40/50/60/70 to a flat 70/70/70/70. The increase in damage is handled by the finish condition.


 

Partially agree. With always doing the same amount of damage, there is not much reason to get a higher level for it. The ability interupt works always, but the duration of the ability disable is way to short to justify higher levels imho.[/quote]

It's an overtime action. It does 70 damage per second and scales up by the finish condition.

finishCondition
finishConditionType "TimeElapsed"
time
Level:0 5.000000
Level:1 8.000000
Level:2 11.000000
Level:3 15.000000

 

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July 19, 2013 6:24:11 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

"Grant small antimatter regeneration to Furios Defense, higher in own gravity wells. Reason: No other Titan can be drained so easily of antimatter and no other Titan suffers as heavily from it."

Isn't there is a capital ship for that, the Dunov with Flux Field?

I wonder if your balancing takes into account the Diplomatic advantages of the races, like the big armor and trade boost of the TEC ?

 

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July 19, 2013 7:38:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ZombiesRus5,
It's an overtime action. It does 70 damage per second and scales up by the finish condition.

finishCondition
finishConditionType "TimeElapsed"
time
Level:0 5.000000
Level:1 8.000000
Level:2 11.000000
Level:3 15.000000

Ahh, ok. 

 

Quoting GeomanNL,
"Grant small antimatter regeneration to Furios Defense, higher in own gravity wells. Reason: No other Titan can be drained so easily of antimatter and no other Titan suffers as heavily from it."

Isn't there is a capital ship for that, the Dunov with Flux Field?

 

Ability User: Dunov Battlecruiser
Ability Type: Active
Target: Self and radius
Antimatter Cost: 125
Cooldown Time: 180
Duration: 60
Range: 4000
Effect(s):
  • Ability antimatter cost: -300%

Greatly reduces the antimatter cost of regular abilities for nearby friendly ships and structures. Extracted from the game.

 

When the ship is drained, lower AM cost for abilities does not help you.  So one Phase Missile turret with Disruptor Nanites does ruin all abilities for 5 minutes, no matter what.

 

 

Quoting GeomanNL,
I wonder if your balancing takes into account the Diplomatic advantages of the races, like the big armor and trade boost of the TEC ?

 

Nope, as diplomacy is only used in FFA games and for obvious reasons does not help you in a 1v1 - which is the game type the races should be balanced from.

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July 19, 2013 7:55:07 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Good post, OP.

[quote quoting="ARESIV"]

Give Advent a culture independent phase missile block technology [/quote]

This is the best option IMO and could make phase missile nerfs unnecessary. I propose that Protection of the Unity should grant 8/16/24% phase missile block for AR. For AL, I propose that Ancient Retribution grants 24% phase missile block instead of a 2% shield mitigation buff.

 

[quote quoting="ARESIV"]

Disruptor Nanites does ruin all abilities for 5 minutes, no matter what.[/quote]

This ability ought to have no effect on Titans and possibly less effect on cap ships.

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July 19, 2013 8:04:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JuleTron,
Give Advent a culture independent phase missile block technology


This is the best option IMO and could make phase missile nerfs unnecessary. I propose that Protection of the Unity should grant 8/16/24% phase missile block for AR. For AL, I propose that Ancient Retribution grants 24% phase missile block instead of a 2% shield mitigation buff.[/quote]

Quoting JuleTron,
[quote quoting="ARESIV"]

Disruptor Nanites does ruin all abilities for 5 minutes, no matter what.


This ability ought to have no effect on Titans and possibly less effect on cap ships. [/quote]

 

Seing that the 20 % phase missile block Advent have INSIDE their culture is highly ineffective, I would suggest far higher numbers. More in the 80 - 90 % range.

 

Imho Phase missiles should be a BONUS.... you do some hull damage before the shields fail..... instead of killing titans with over 10000 shield points remaining.

 

 

It does affect Titans and Capitalships at the moment.

 

5 minutes would still be insane for support cruisers.

 

30 seconds on all ships.... that still awesome for a lousy turret.

 

Consider - until the turret is destroyed, it triggers again after 30 seconds.

 

And when you have the vasari fleet + Orky pounding your fleet, you rarely can afford focus fire on some turrets.

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July 19, 2013 8:32:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

80-90% phase missile block is way too high and it would make all other phase missile block techs useless. Phase missile block should be a useful defense against phase missiles but it should not completely invalidate them. 20% block might not be that good but combined with other techs it would be.

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July 19, 2013 12:53:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JuleTron,
all other phase missile block techs

 

There are no other techs besides Advent lously inside culture bonus.

 

Phase Missile Block inside culture should make room to phase missile block without culture..... otherwise Advent will never be capable of defeating a Vasari who digged in.Vasari culture brings in some juicy damage increase after all.

 

20 % Phase Missile Block Results compared to no Phase Missile Block: 

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/429069/page/1/#3245375

 

And that was Kanraks, not OP Phase Missile Bombers.

 

 

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July 19, 2013 7:28:19 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Considering that the tech that grants phase missile blocking doesn't currently work, inside and out should be the same.

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July 19, 2013 10:13:56 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yes, a single tech for phase missile block isn't enough. That is why there are multiple techs. It would be ridiculous for a single non-top tier tech to completely invalidate an entire upgrade path.

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July 20, 2013 11:11:08 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

My 2 cents...

Don't buff disruption matrix....if you want to buff the Ankylon, give it more raw firepower and let furious defenses grant splash damage (like finest hour and desperation)....

Ragnarov needs work...increasing the raw damage (not frontal, just sides and rear) would help but something needs to be done for its abilities, not sure what though....

Mass communion should be lower tier, no doubt...tier 1 or 2 works....may be strange at tier 1 since you can't build them at tier 2 but balance wise tier 1 is probably better...

Do NOT buff skirmishers without heavily nerfing Orkies...yes skirmishers are weak but 10% buff to both DPS and health is way too much...at very most, 5% buff to both or a 10% buff to either HP or DPS...

Vasari bombers need to have reduced base damage....I see no reason why we should remove phase missiles from them and instead give them wave cannons...all three factions currently have the same weapon on their LRF and bomber, no need to change that...if you took PMs off of bombers, the only unit that would have PMs would then be kanraks and that's just plain silly...

Duration of disruptive nanites should be lowered....

I have mixed feelings about desperation...to be honest, I'd rather see other areas of Vasari tweaked first....

 

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July 20, 2013 5:15:03 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

Ragnarov needs work...increasing the raw damage (not frontal, just sides and rear) would help but something needs to be done for its abilities, not sure what though....

I don't know why you insist on perpetuating this myth... read my recent points as well as aresiv's on the TL balancing thread to see why this is false...

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July 20, 2013 5:51:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,
I don't know why you insist on perpetuating this myth... read my recent points as well as aresiv's on the TL balancing thread to see why this is false...

Wonder what your buddy cat has to say about the Ragnarov...

 

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July 20, 2013 5:55:25 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Way to completely ignore the shellacking you received in my rebuttal... 

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/446497/page/2

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July 20, 2013 7:48:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yep, you really got me there...my butt is still sore from that little escapade...I won't be walking for at least a week....

Back to the OP....

I think Unity Mass should do chaining damage...that ought to bring AL back into balance...

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July 21, 2013 2:12:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Zombie, I feel the list needs to include more balance proposals from pre-rebellion. Like the kol, microphasing aura on skirantra, dominas, enforcers, maruaders, etc.

Quoting Seleuceia,

I think Unity Mass should do chaining damage...that ought to bring AL back into balance...

Take your trolling somewhere else... this thread is only for serious balance proposals... 

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July 21, 2013 7:15:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,
Don't buff disruption matrix....if you want to buff the Ankylon, give it more raw firepower and let furious defenses grant splash damage (like finest hour and desperation)....


GoaFans E4X mod allows the beams of the Ankylon to fire in much wider arcs (without breaking graphics).

That does notable help the Ankylon and would mean a average increase in effective firepower without changing total damage output.

The Ankylon has acceptable firepower... it is just distributed in a less then stellar way.

When broadsiding, the beams are silent..... so it is only the lasers and the rockets who do damage.

And while the broadside does the most damage, the silence of the beams does notable decrease effective firepower.

The beam cannons on the model are quite capable of supporting the arcs from Goafan without lucking ugly.

Splash Damage is more or less done by the relative good 360 degree coverage, the problem is just that the ankylon for maximum firepower has to be inside the enemy fleet, while for group shield you probably want to be slighty away.

Imho the AM regeneration would be far moré important... Furios Defense could do 200 DPS splash damage... that doesnt matter while it is so easy to drain the Ankylon from AM and keeping it from regenerating it.

Quoting Seleuceia,
Ragnarov needs work...increasing the raw damage (not frontal, just sides and rear) would help but something needs to be done for its abilities, not sure what though....


When did it happen, that the Ankylon did become more powerful than the Ragnarov? Did I miss some major changes?

Now, for the record:

The Ragnarovs side only weapon consist of Heavy Autocannons and Missile Launchers. Those do 75 % of the damage of the Anklyon Broadside. So if the Ankylons is destroying a ship in 10 seconds by primary weapons, the Ragnarov destroy the same ship in 13.3 seconds with his secondary weapons.

That is the theory... in practise, the 8 forward mounted Gaus Guns have a signifcant arc..... those 8 gaus guns that have firepower maybe 10 % below the main rail gun can hit most ships on the left or right side of the Ragnarov Ttan. I would thus make aneducated guess and say that the Ragnarov is nearly as good as the Anklyon when it comes to sideward sideward firepower.

 

That only leaves rear, which is a weakspot for all titans. With advanced maneuvering the TEC Titans are already more agile than that of other races and attacks from behind rarely are a problem for those, too.

 

 

Quoting Seleuceia,
Mass communion should be lower tier, no doubt...tier 1 or 2 works....may be strange at tier 1 since you can't build them at tier 2 but balance wise tier 1 is probably better...

 

Agreed. Altough, if you make it Tier 1, the temple of communion should become tier 1, too.

 

Quoting Seleuceia,
Vasari bombers need to have reduced base damage....I see no reason why we should remove phase missiles from them and instead give them wave cannons...all three factions currently have the same weapon on their LRF and bomber, no need to change that...if you took PMs off of bombers, the only unit that would have PMs would then be kanraks and that's just plain silly...

 

Unless you nerf their damage by 80 % or so, they will still be way to deadly.

 

Unless of course, Advent get a good phase missile block tech.

 

Quoting Seleuceia,
Duration of disruptive nanites should be lowered....

 

Yes.... 30 seconds.. at most.

 

 

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July 21, 2013 10:53:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Disruptive Nanites should be alot lower than 30 seconds. It should be at most 10 seconds. At the minimum the rate of fire of the platform itself.

 

Anything longer promotes fire and forget of the platform with micro. If you want something passive regen disable, it should require a commitment of that platform to keep targeting that unit. 

 

So you just dont have 1 platform disabling all Caps and Titans. 

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July 21, 2013 11:36:58 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ARESIV,
Agreed. Altough, if you make it Tier 1, the temple of communion should become tier 1, too.

It's not "clean" but basically the only reason I'd want mass communion at tier 1 is for the cost of a tier 1 tech...not sure advent should be getting culture at tier 1...

Quoting ARESIV,
Imho the AM regeneration would be far moré important... Furios Defense could do 200 DPS splash damage... that doesnt matter while it is so easy to drain the Ankylon from AM and keeping it from regenerating it.

I suppose it depends on how you are looking at it...if you are spamming just one ability, spamming furious defense isn't a whole lot different than spamming chastic burst, UM, or scattershot...since furious defense lasts a long time, I actually think Ankylon has an advantage there....it's not so much the AM regen of the Ankylon but rather the fact that it has no passives (that's also a weakness of the Ragnarov) that causes AM to be a problem....

Quoting ARESIV,
Unless you nerf their damage by 80 % or so, they will still be way to deadly.

If their damage was nerfed by 20% it would make a huge difference....even 10% would be a step in the right direction....PM blocking still is a necessity but Vasari bombers are problematic even against TEC...I feel they need to be slightly nerfed against TEC and largely nerfed against Advent....I see only two routes to this: either nerf base damage slightly and then give Advent better PM blocking, or give all shield techs (regardless of faction) PM blocking, which would benefit advent most since they have twice as many shield techs...

Quoting Sinkillr,
Take your trolling somewhere else... this thread is only for serious balance proposals..

That you choose to ignore my serious proposals is your problem...

 

 

 

 

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July 21, 2013 11:42:07 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,

Zombie, I feel the list needs to include more balance proposals from pre-rebellion. Like the kol, microphasing aura on skirantra, dominas, enforcers, maruaders, etc.


Quoting Seleuceia, reply 20
I think Unity Mass should do chaining damage...that ought to bring AL back into balance...

Take your trolling somewhere else... this thread is only for serious balance proposals... 

Why do I feel like the troll is you???

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