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Beautiful Capital Ship Synergy

By on March 27, 2014 5:18:31 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

JAV1L15

Join Date 02/2012
+1

Hello fellow masters of starship destruction!

I thought I might share a Vasari capital ship fleet synergy I have found to be incredibly effective, and strongly advise you to try it out yourself.

This, like any proper capital ship synergy, requires keen observation and micro, particularly with the Anotrak Marauder (probably one of the most overlooked ships in the game, and this is equally as likely to be because using it correctly requires such precise monitoring of its actions).

Anywho, this is made up of 4 core ships (and having just these 4 ships with frigates to boot is a more than capable fleet throughout the game, eventually getting titan support etc when necessary)

The Egg, The Repair cloud boat, the antimatter denier and the manipulation stick.

 

Jarrasul Evacuator:

Yeah, any mildly competent player uses the yolk-mobile, nano disassemble is an antimatter fusion of awesome, plus its the races colony capital, which is almost essential for proper expansion.

Notes on those unfamiliar, basically fire the nano-death at any large ship being focus fired on (capital ship or titan) to just magnify your damage output.

I myself dont use gravity warhead that much, but It can be useful in situations (stopping enemy retreat is the core one).

drain planet is basically an always use when you get this thing to lv 6 and a planet needs bombing.

This ship ties into the other 3 as the damage multiplier.

 

Skirantra Carrier:

Repair Cloud, Repair Cloud, Repair Cloud. I dont put any points into scramble bombers simply because I want all antimatter going to this baby (and scramble bombers is only really useful early game or in small engagements). Repair cloud can be put on autocast when your fleet is blobbed around this little hive of healing, but I would recommend the more skilled players micro this to and use it when they see fit.

Replicate forces is like scramble bombers, good in early (if you can get an early lv 6) or small engagements to multiply your firepower.

The engineer of the synergy bubble, it keeps everyone alive (in tandem with the antorak, which I will get to).

 

Kortul Devastator:

"Thats a nice lot of antimatter you have there, it would be a shame if someone where to totally kefuffle that all up for you"

The ability denier, strike craft plugger, bullet sponge-DPS box. If this group were to expand to 5 capital ships I'd get a second one of these.

Requiring the least amount of micro for the 4 ships, put this guy on autocast overcharge w/ disruptive strikes and cancel enemy ability use, while also swatting a frigate blob or two. The micro for this guy is basically positioning, get him in a spot where all guns are blazing, giving off maximum pew pew.

lv 6 you can basically turn frigate mobs into a rather large bubble wrap balloon

Its the sword and shield of the group.

 

Antorak Marauder:

This is where micro skills are put to the test, this is the glue for this fleet synergy, and what makes it even that bit more effective.

Phase Out Hull.

Many consider this ability to be 'meh', but I have found that it is incredibly effective at both fleet conservation and guaranteeing an enemy high value target kill (fleeing lv 10 capitalship).

If you find at any point one of your capital ships is under intense fire and is in the state where retreat is starting to look like a good idea, phase that ship out.

All enemy ships change target, your capital ship comes back online and continues to fight.

This ability essentially lets you pick what ship the enemy is firing on, because its cooldown is significantly shorter than its duration (later levels particularly).

Either the enemy is not paying attention and your capital ship will no longer get shot at, or they will focus fire again... just phase it out a second time... opponents may get infuriated with you, so word of caution

As for the other use, if you really want to kill that elite Projenetor Mothership, let the rest of his fleet retreat and phase him out, each time he is about to jump away, phase him out again... you can then proceed to stacking up damage on him before he falls (just make sure you keep phasing him out just before he jumps away, to reset his charge).

Distort Gravity is nice, allowing you to get around quicker and chase/run away from enemy fleets/jump inhibitors

I rarely use the sabotage ability, but it can be useful during assaults, especially on shipyard planets.

the lv 6 gate is a nice gift to have, letting you reinforce and retreat across the galaxy.

This ship is multiple things, but at its core its the manipulator support ship.

 

What is the ever so critical communities thoughts? and are there better options out there?

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March 27, 2014 5:41:29 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Is that you Sleeper? I have never seen anybody advocate for the marauder so strongly...

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March 27, 2014 7:03:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Anywho, this is made up of 4 core ships (and having just these 4 ships with frigates to boot is a more than capable fleet throughout the game, eventually getting titan support etc when necessary)

Why would anyone get THREE extra cap ships before Vorastra titan? And one of them is a MARAUDER???

I myself dont use gravity warhead that much, but It can be useful in situations (stopping enemy retreat is the core one).

I find gravity warhead to be one of the best ship-disabling abilities in the game... it stops phase jumping for >15 seconds AND slows down ship speed. That is more than enough time to kill a level 6 cap mid game. 

Repair Cloud, Repair Cloud, Repair Cloud. I dont put any points into scramble bombers simply because I want all antimatter going to this baby (and scramble bombers is only really useful early game or in small engagements). Repair cloud can be put on autocast when your fleet is blobbed around this little hive of healing, but I would recommend the more skilled players micro this to and use it when they see fit.

Repair cloud is nice and all but in most situations overseers are the superior healer (unless mass vette swarm). RC takes huge amounts of AM which means you can only cast it like twice before running out. Plus, with the way the AI works in this game, it doesn't spread out attacks over multiple targets, instead just targeting 1-2 ships. That means most of the fleet is likely not damaged at all, wasting much of the RC. Its basically a crappier version of the repair bay.

The ability denier, strike craft plugger, bullet sponge-DPS box. If this group were to expand to 5 capital ships I'd get a second one of these.

Requiring the least amount of micro for the 4 ships, put this guy on autocast overcharge w/ disruptive strikes and cancel enemy ability use, while also swatting a frigate blob or two. The micro for this guy is basically positioning, get him in a spot where all guns are blazing, giving off maximum pew pew.

lv 6 you can basically turn frigate mobs into a rather large bubble wrap balloon

The two main uses of the kortul is bleeding enemy titan/cap AM reserves and countering late game strikecraft swarms. Its ultimate doesn't really ever come into play because by that time nobody will build any frigates besides flak so it will be useless against carriers or HCs (not to mention the game is probably over if you get your 3rd cap to level 6). Plus you already have a titan that eats frigates for breakfast, why would you need the ultimate?

If you find at any point one of your capital ships is under intense fire and is in the state where retreat is starting to look like a good idea, phase that ship out.

Lol? You do know that phase out hull renders a ship unable to move, right? It also resets the ship's speed, which means it has to accelerate all over again, costing a few precious seconds. Meanwhile, the enemy ships catch up to your cap. Its actually counterproductive in making the ship able to retreat.

This ability essentially lets you pick what ship the enemy is firing on, because its cooldown is significantly shorter than its duration (later levels particularly).

How often do you get a marauder past level 3???

Either the enemy is not paying attention and your capital ship will no longer get shot at, or they will focus fire again... just phase it out a second time... opponents may get infuriated with you, so word of caution

No, he is likely to thank you for wasting valuable resources on a shit ship and making it easier for him to kill your cap...

Also, if you opponent isn't paying attention in a critical time like that he is probably a noob or AI.

As for the other use, if you really want to kill that elite Projenetor Mothership, let the rest of his fleet retreat and phase him out, each time he is about to jump away, phase him out again... you can then proceed to stacking up damage on him before he falls (just make sure you keep phasing him out just before he jumps away, to reset his charge).

Meanwhile, the enemy fleet focus fires your maruader, killing it, while his own cap is invulnerable...

Or you could avoid this disaster by just grav bombing the prog...

Distort Gravity is nice, allowing you to get around quicker and chase/run away from enemy fleets/jump inhibitors

I rarely use the sabotage ability, but it can be useful during assaults, especially on shipyard planets.

You do know that subversion has a range limit, right? Meaning it has to be close to the enemy planet to work. That is not really practical considering how easy it is to snipe the maruader. I could see this becoming useful in late game when you have mass caps but by then your opponent is likely to have multiple factories on multiple worlds, limiting its usefulness.

I agree the nullification of PJI is an often overlooked feature of distort gravity.

the lv 6 gate is a nice gift to have, letting you reinforce and retreat across the galaxy.

Or you could just get a titan that is infinitely more useful at level 6 than this crap ship.

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March 27, 2014 8:24:50 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Well, do I have somebody who dislikes the marauder here!

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March 27, 2014 8:45:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Forgive me with quoting, not so good with using it yet.

 

1) I get 4 caps before titan because the research for max cap slots goes 1>1>1>2, so it just makes, to me, economical sense at the time

2) I dont have the best experience with gravity warhead, it just never appeared to do what it needed to do for me, will try it out a few more times and re-make a conclusion. This does sound inviting.

3) I never have repair cloud on autocast in general cases, and only fire it when there are several ships needing repair (using the phase out hull to redirect enemy fire can lead to every single one of my capital ships with hull damage after a prolonged fight, that is the time to use it). I always have overseers with me once I get the tech.

4) I forgot to mention jam weapons, and that is really quite silly of me. Yes Jam Weapons is incredibly important, and having the sentinels to back you up always helps. as for the titan vs frigates, I usually play VL, so the Maw is only lv 6. Also, this could work with other questions you asked about why I get the marauder before the Vorastra, I use the titan for guerrilla warfare, hitting undefended sectors and micro phasing out when it gets dangerous to level him up, and I call the titan in to help my main fleet when the extra support is needed. This makes the Kortul ultimate quite useful, but is always situational.

5) Instead of retreating the capital ship, I phase it out, so its invincible for a few seconds, enemy changes target, and the capital ship comes back online to continue fighting. keep repeating the phase out if the enemy keeps targeting it, only needing to retreat once the Antoraks antimatter gets low. Phasing out one of your own ships while it tries to retreat is stupid, although I did do it once (allied Marza was on 60 hit points getting chased by a projenetor on ~800 hit points, I phased the Marza out while he tried to retreat, engaged the projo 1v1 with my marauder, phased the marza out a few more times before the projo decided to try and run, I phased the projo on ~120 HP after it turned around, marza came back online, turned around and we both finished it off in a single volley).

6) My marauders get past level 3 pretty much all the time, In fact I cant remember the last time I lost a marauder before it got to level 5.

7) I have played against very good players, and the damage sharing phase out hull allows has saved me several times, you asked how my marauder got past level 3, to be honest I hardly ever lose capital ships, because of that antorak. Facing AI with an antorak in my mix makes fighting a joke

8) this scenario is the enemy is in full blown retreat, so you let the rest of his fleet run away, but you trap the projo, gravity warhead does sound like a better option now from what you have said, phase out hull is ultimately self preservation and cancelling channeled abilities like missile barrage

9) hence why I said I rarely use subversion, phase out hull and distort gravity are just much better, I usually go 4:4:0:2

10) a lv 6 titan of any race is better than a lv 6 capital ship of any race to be honest

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March 27, 2014 10:02:56 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've always loved the Antorak. The phase out hull ability has saved my bacon a few times. And disrupted my traps.

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March 27, 2014 11:36:07 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,
I've always loved the Antorak. The phase out hull ability has fried my bacon a few times. And disrupted my traps.

Fixed.

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March 27, 2014 12:25:25 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you are playing against the computer, phase out hull works a lot better defensively.  Any reasonably competent player is just going to refocus your ship again when it is un-phased.  Against the computer it makes sense to go cap ship heavy because you can rotate damaged ships in and out of combat and use them as damage sponges.  Online against other players, they will chase down your damaged cap ships and they will have an extra 40 or so frigates to do it with instead of 3 extra capitals.

Honestly, the Marauder was a lot better in the old days when the game played slower and there was more time for micro.  In Rebellion, everyone plays at the fastest speeds where it is harder to micro a ship like the Marauder to its fullest potential, and fleets build up faster due to the higher income level so they reach a critical mass faster where small scale raiding isn't as viable and capital ships are big targets.

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March 27, 2014 4:45:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I love the Marauder. Phase Out Hull is hilarious to use to prevent focus fire nearly indefinitely, especially since the Marauder is a low priority target since it's not a big damage dealer.

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March 27, 2014 4:49:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Have you even clicked on an ICO lobby before WOEaintME?

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March 27, 2014 5:12:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,

Have you even clicked on an ICO lobby before WOEaintME?

Yes

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March 27, 2014 5:24:25 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wait....you have to click on it?  That would explain a lot...................

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March 27, 2014 7:53:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Oh of course competent players re-focus fire and they have, I watch them.

But the Antorak has a great antimatter pool, and can repeatedly cast Phase Out Hull for a considerable period of time.

What this allows for is a little merrygoround like this.

1. Phase ship out, enemy ships change target

2. Ship phases back in, get an overseer or two to cast their healing on it, repair cloud if enough of your other ships are damaged too (repair cloud isnt channeled, so it will continue to take effect even when the ship phases out again)

3. if the enemy redirects fire to it, phase it out again.

4. Repeat, you will have a full strength capitalship in no time.

 

Benefits of doing this instead of simply pulling the capital ship out:

> Ship still gets experience

> enemy wastes valuable DPS, while your fleet kills them.

> Engagement formations don't go full confetti as the enemy fleet tries to hunt down a fleeing ship, so you can keep that under your control.

 

 

I will comply with you saying ICO games go too quickly now, this is sadly true, and hinders micro on all fronts

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March 28, 2014 5:16:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

What is your ICO nick JAV1L15? It seems like you play online but then again your approval of the maruader makes me worried.

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March 28, 2014 8:48:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting JAV1L15,

Oh of course competent players re-focus fire and they have, I watch them.

But the Antorak has a great antimatter pool, and can repeatedly cast Phase Out Hull for a considerable period of time.

What this allows for is a little merrygoround like this.

1. Phase ship out, enemy ships change target

2. Ship phases back in, get an overseer or two to cast their healing on it, repair cloud if enough of your other ships are damaged too (repair cloud isnt channeled, so it will continue to take effect even when the ship phases out again)

3. if the enemy redirects fire to it, phase it out again.

4. Repeat, you will have a full strength capitalship in no time.

 

Benefits of doing this instead of simply pulling the capital ship out:

> Ship still gets experience

> enemy wastes valuable DPS, while your fleet kills them.

> Engagement formations don't go full confetti as the enemy fleet tries to hunt down a fleeing ship, so you can keep that under your control.

 

 

I will comply with you saying ICO games go too quickly now, this is sadly true, and hinders micro on all fronts



If you can pull this theory-craft off against another player, it means you were already winning for some other reason...probably you are faster at getting your econ off the ground and have more with which to fight and support your multi-cap strategy.  If you can beat someone this way, you can absolutely stomp them with a better strategy.

In a close fight against a high skill player, it isn't going to work like you theorize....first of all, Vasari are outgunned by both Advent and TEC due to the comparative cost of Vasari ships.  Vasari usually have to rely on their starbases to back up their fleets in the early and mid game.  By building 4 cap ships, you have only worsened your DPS disadvantage versus another player who built 1 cap and frigates. 

When you phase out whatever ship is taking damage, it isn't contributing to the fight...and the Marauder doesn't do much damage, and you are trying to do Repair Cloud instead of Scramble Bombers on the Skirantra.  So you pretty much have 2-3 cap ships that are trying to stay alive while not contributing much to the fight beyond soaking damage.  While soaking damage is important, you are seriously outgunned because frigates have a much better DPS / cost ratio, and your opponent has an extra 40 or so frigates.  The scales are going to tip against you very quickly as you start losing your fleet while the Marauder and phased out cap add squat in return fire.  Because you have 4 cap ships, at the time of the first engagement, they are likely to be about level 3-4.  Your enemy has a level 6 cap ship by now, which could very well give a nasty advantage depending on the ship.

If you tell me you have some fabulous strategy where you use a Marauder and an Evacuator to colonize really fast, or you use a Marauder and 3 Skirantras to do hit and run attacks with a bunch of bombers, I'm willing to entertain your madness and say I don't know exactly what will happen.  Phase Out Hull is not going to decisively win you any battles you weren't going to already win.  It is a nice ability to have handy if you can afford it late game, but not something you can base your core strategy around.

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March 28, 2014 10:41:27 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Multi cap strategies work better when there are multiple ecos....while I was kind of trolling, I did a lead with 4 halcyons once when there was another eco on my team...they were a nearly unbeatable fleet when I hit the enemy since once one got too damaged I'd just pull it back for repair...meanwhile the bombers just raped the LFs, I took on 40 disciples and a prog with 4 halcyons, no losses, but I was only able to get the caps in the first place because I wasn't on frontline....

You trade a hefty up front investment for the possibility of not needing to replenish losses later....that usually isn't doable on frontline, even as Vasari.......

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March 29, 2014 2:01:59 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

Multi cap strategies work better when there are multiple ecos....while I was kind of trolling, I did a lead with 4 halcyons once when there was another eco on my team...they were a nearly unbeatable fleet when I hit the enemy since once one got too damaged I'd just pull it back for repair...meanwhile the bombers just raped the LFs, I took on 40 disciples and a prog with 4 halcyons, no losses, but I was only able to get the caps in the first place because I wasn't on frontline....

You trade a hefty up front investment for the possibility of not needing to replenish losses later....that usually isn't doable on frontline, even as Vasari.......

 

Four carrier caps of any race can project a lot of power, you just have to be ready to do some hit and run sometimes, and it isn't going to work on everyone.  That is why I said maybe combining a Marauder with 3 Skirantras for raiding tactics if you want to get some use out of the Marauder.

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March 29, 2014 11:21:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Anybody can beat a noob with mass siege spam but that does not mean it is viable. And JAV, i recommend that you watch some more multiplayer replays. Notice how none of the skilled ever leads maruader, let alone building it. 

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March 29, 2014 1:42:35 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't know Sin, HuyMac has.......

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March 30, 2014 12:57:02 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I have about 16 games on ICO (hardly any), with a 50% win loss ratio (8:8).

I do however participate in a STACK of LAN SoaSE games, having a group of SoaSE friends we regularly organize meetings for some good old spaceship destruction. While there are a few of them (3 to be exact, out of 8 including myself), who are utterly useless/the definition of cannon fodder, the remaining 4 + myself are more than capable, and play just like any good player would over ICO.

 

Back to the capital ship in question, The Marauder is next to useless on its own, and it doesn't stand to win fights. The marauder supports everything else I have, keeping capital ships alive, allowing my fleet to escape/hunt down opponents to greater effect, and cancelling channeled abilities like shield regen on a projo, missile barrage on a marza, etc etc.

I did mention at the start that this was a synergy, the Kortul, Skirantra and Jarrasul are the firepower, as are the frigates I field (frigate composition always changes with game time and what the enemy is using)

 

While I have no shame admitting I'm not the best of the best, I am more than competent, and would love to have a game with any one of you to further hone my skills (and show you what I'm made of  )

 

P.S. Every engagement I have with my fellow sinners leads to my antorak receiving the brunt of enemy focus fire right off the bat, because they know that with it operational they have no chance for killing any other capital ship I field, no easy escape and no way of using channeled abilities.

 

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March 30, 2014 12:57:57 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

as for my ICO name, it should be JAV1L15

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March 30, 2014 10:43:48 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

its wasnt me but u  guys know i love me maruder

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March 30, 2014 10:46:03 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

its wasnt me but u  guys know i love me maruder

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