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New player´s questions

By on April 23, 2014 10:42:27 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

trueno33

Join Date 04/2014
0

Hi, I introduce myself in these forums with this post. I have been playing the game for some days and I love it so far. I am really addicted as I hadn´t been with any strategy game in a while. The game looks beautiful and I enjoy the huge variety of ships, abilities, techs, planet improvements, etc. Well, I´m using the pause key a lot (mapped it to one of the buttons in my mouse actually) so I can enjoy the designs and absorb the info leisurely.

I have won a couple of small map games and now I face serious problems after finding my first enemy argonev starbase. In the previous games I had no problem wiping out enemy fleets, using a decent amount of frigates and a couple of capital ships (normal difficulty). But when trying to take that tec planet their starbase absolutely destroyed my fleets, chewing, swallowing and spitting the bones of five capital ships I threw at it. The matter is that it has 14000 hull points and about 3000 shield points. The orkulus that I have in one of my planets doesn´t even reach 3000 hull points, I can´t remember it exactly.

The wiki says that argonevs start with 3000 hull points, but doesn´t specify the number of points added after upgrades. So my question is. is this normal? I know it is, cause it´s in my game. Probably I´m just itchy after wittnessing the utter destruction of 60+ of my ships, five capital ships included. And worse than that, I had barely started to scratch the surface of the thing when the last of my ships retired from the well.

As I said I love the game and I am happy to find this interesting comunity devoted to it. Have fun

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April 23, 2014 10:47:54 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

That TEC Starbase is probably fully upgraded. Fully upgraded Starbases are a pain; you should rarely engage one head on. For Vasari, an upgraded Orkulus is a good way to fight Starbases, along with swarms of Bombers. Capital ships have pretty low DPS for their supply costs, so don't rely on them to do much fighting. Once you reach a critical mass of Bombers (80-100), you can park them on the base while your fleet stays out of attack range.

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April 23, 2014 10:57:45 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

If you play advent, the martyrdom on the scout ships works extremely well against the starbases. Simply build 10-15 of them and activate the ability near the target, and watch as the most powerful enemy ships get reduced to smithereens,.

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April 23, 2014 11:17:02 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Indeed for Vasari bombers are the way to go. Also, upgrade the phase missiles to allow the missiles from the bombers to bypass the shields for an even more devastating attack.

If you are also playing as Vasari Rebels you can also build and upgrade a starbase in your own system then build a phase gate in said system and then use the superweapon the Vasari have to open up a phase gate node in that system and send the star base over there. This option is a bit higher level of game mechanics but when you figure it out it can be quite fun.

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April 23, 2014 11:41:20 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Why would you engage a fully upgraded starbase? Take a page out of the Germans when they bypassed the damned Magino Line.

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April 23, 2014 12:05:09 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Thank you guys for your fast advice. I´ll try the bomber solution. About sending the orkulus starbase to the enemy well, I have to understand and learn the mechanics for it. The wiki says:

Another tactic employable with the Vasari Rebels Starbase jump ability is to use it in tandem with the Kostura Cannon. An Orkulus starbase with Stabilize Phase Space and Defensive Enhancements fully upgraded can be stationed at a gravity well with its own phase stabilizer node. The Kostura Cannon is then fired at any critical or unprotected hostile core world. Once the Kostura warhead makes contact with the enemy gravity well, the defense mechanisms of that gravity well are disabled and the gravity well will serve as a temporary phase stabilizer node. At this point, the Orkulus Starbase is made to jump towards the enemy planet and upon arrival, the Stabilize Phase Space ability is activated. In its duration of 240 seconds, you will then have plenty of time to send your fleet to ravage those unprotected sectors with the bonus of having a starbase to watch your back.

But I won´t fully understand this until I try and experiment by myself. Luckily the AI in normal diff is forgiving enough to give me some time and build the necessary infrastracture to try this. At least I hope so...

About bypassing the starbase, of course it´s possible, as long as it´s not stationed in the faction´s capital, right? This is not the case in my situation however, so it´s also fair good advice

 

EDIT: another question, if you are so kind: How do you recommend to send the bombers? Cruiser carriers or capital ship carriers?

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April 23, 2014 1:30:12 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Hi, I introduce myself in these forums with this post. I have been playing the game for some days and I love it so far. I am really addicted as I hadn´t been with any strategy game in a while. The game looks beautiful and I enjoy the huge variety of ships, abilities, techs, planet improvements, etc. Well, I´m using the pause key a lot (mapped it to one of the buttons in my mouse actually) so I can enjoy the designs and absorb the info leisurely.

Glad you're enjoying it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with using the pause key, just keep in mind its use is rather limited if you ever intend to play multiplayer.

I have won a couple of small map games and now I face serious problems after finding my first enemy argonev starbase. In the previous games I had no problem wiping out enemy fleets, using a decent amount of frigates and a couple of capital ships (normal difficulty). But when trying to take that tec planet their starbase absolutely destroyed my fleets, chewing, swallowing and spitting the bones of five capital ships I threw at it. The matter is that it has 14000 hull points and about 3000 shield points. The orkulus that I have in one of my planets doesn´t even reach 3000 hull points, I can´t remember it exactly.

As other people have mentioned, engaging fully upgraded starbases head on is generally not a good idea. If at all possible you want to engage them out of range with the mentioned bombers or antistructure cruisers. The Vasari starbase's second weapon upgrade technically is also good against starbases but I usually save this for only the most well defended gravity wells.

If I need to destroy this particular starbase ASAP and I believe I am relatively safe from an enemy fleet that might reinforce the planet, I will also attack it with my capitalships and/or titan. This is because they have high enough health so that you should be able to withdraw them before they are at serious risk of being destroyed. Having some overseers hanging out of range to quickly heal them once they withdraw is also useful.

But I won´t fully understand this until I try and experiment by myself. Luckily the AI in normal diff is forgiving enough to give me some time and build the necessary infrastracture to try this. At least I hope so...

That is a key tactic for the Vasari Rebels yes. Yet even if you are playing Loyalist, you can actually build starbases in enemy gravity wells as well. In fact that Vasari has a tech that reduces the construction time of starbases in enemy territory, so this offensive starbasing can be a great strategy for dealing with well fortified planets.

About bypassing the starbase, of course it´s possible, as long as it´s not stationed in the faction´s capital, right? This is not the case in my situation however, so it´s also fair good advice

There is one reason why you don't want to just bypass planets. If you jump away from a planet that has an enemy starbase in it, your ships will have all their antimatter drained and will lose a certain percentage of their HP. This means your fleet will be weakened and unable to use special abilities when they arrive at the destination, and are thus potential sitting ducks for an enemy fleet who wanted you to bypass the starbase. As such I would only bypass if you are certain the enemy can't compete with your fleet and only to reach a much more valueable target like the enemy homeworld.

another question, if you are so kind: How do you recommend to send the bombers? Cruiser carriers or capital ship carriers?

Early on for the Vasari the Skirantra carrier capitalship is a very good unit, as it can both heal your fleet and send out swarms of bombers. However, as mentioned you want to be careful not to build too many capitalships. Several game mechanics reward having fewer, higher level capitalships than many low level ones, and only high level capitalships are as efficient as frigates for basic combat stats (and caps are always more expensive). Above all you should be getting capitalships for their special abilities, if you just want more combat ships get frigates.

If you play advent, the martyrdom on the scout ships works extremely well against the starbases. Simply build 10-15 of them and activate the ability near the target, and watch as the most powerful enemy ships get reduced to smithereens,.

Don't listen to Ragnarok, he's a known troll. Martyrdom is rarely useful even against frigates, let alone a starbase.

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April 23, 2014 2:01:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Please excuse Goafan, he is one of the chief trolls on this forum. Even if he isn't trolling this topic, he hardly ever plays multiplayer, which means his understanding of the deeper strategies of the game is rather limited. The people that you want to listen to are Ryat, Ragnorak, and Cykur.

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April 23, 2014 2:44:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting 56ktarget,

Please excuse Goafan, he is one of the chief trolls on this forum. Even if he isn't trolling this topic, he hardly ever plays multiplayer, which means his understanding of the deeper strategies of the game is rather limited. The people that you want to listen to are Ryat, Ragnorak, and Cykur.

I bet I've played as many games as Ryat, and while us modders may not be as good at execution as MP regulars, we do know how the game actually works. I'd say please point out what part of my post is incorrect, but claiming that Ragnorak/Sinkillr isn't a troll makes me think you're not serious either.

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April 23, 2014 3:24:34 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Matyrdom does 250 damage per ship. Multiply that by 20 ships and you get 5000 damage, which is enough to take out a mid level starbase.

0/10 Goa, make sure to get some trolling tips from Seleuceia next time.

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April 23, 2014 3:40:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting 56ktarget,

Matyrdom does 250 damage per ship. Multiply that by 20 ships and you get 5000 damage, which is enough to take out a mid level starbase.

0/10 Goa, make sure to get some trolling tips from Seleuceia next time.

 

Matyrdom is affected by shield mitigation, so that 250 damage gets severely reduced. A swarm of Matyred Seekers won't deal that amount of damage.

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April 23, 2014 3:40:57 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting 56ktarget,
Please excuse Goafan, he is one of the chief trolls on this forum. Even if he isn't trolling this topic, he hardly ever plays multiplayer, which means his understanding of the deeper strategies of the game is rather limited.

 

What is wrong with Goafan's previous reply? I see nothing stupid in it. Please stop derailing a normal line of comments with your rather negative attitude, even without helping the poor fella (the OP) yourself...... You haven't said anything helpful here so far, just made Trueno33 doubt what Goafan says. And Goafan actually said good pieces of advice so your comment was not very helpful in this case, not every new player wants to see trolling in the comments to his post.

And what if he does not really play multiplayer? One can be a good player without always playing 5s games.. And know the strategies from the forums, or friends, or from the awesome guides made by skilled people (was it Grimm I guess?).

Quoting 56ktarget,
The people that you want to listen to are Ryat, Ragnorak, and Cykur.

Ragnorak? Yeah build the "hugely OP" flak spam or start with and build useless capital ships, that will surely help your situation..

 

Quoting GoaFan77,
but claiming that Ragnorak/Sinkillr isn't a troll makes me think you're not serious either.

 

Maybe he is another head of the hydra? I start to suspect this after his last comment here, without any real reason attacking others who are just helping a newer player.

 

 

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April 23, 2014 4:52:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Swordsalmon,
Matyrdom is affected by shield mitigation, so that 250 damage gets severely reduced. A swarm of Matyred Seekers won't deal that amount of damage.

This in addition to the fact that the OP states the starbasew had 

14000 hull points and about 3000 shield points

So Ragnarok's value of 5000 is barely a scratch without mitigation let alone with. But nice try...

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April 23, 2014 9:50:16 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Lol, I didn´t mean to ignite such serious arguments here. My conclussion is that the game must be really deep, immersive and interesting, as it already seems. I´ll try to not to use the pause that much, so I can get ready for MP. But for the moment being I need to read every text about every tech or planet improvement or whatever. Besides I actually do prefer turn based games, so I have time to plan carefully my movements. This game pretty much allows for that when using pause though. The graphics and visuals are also quite nice to watch closely with no hurries (and the UI is convenient and neat, I must say)

Anyways, I have a long way to go until I discover by myself the reasons why many capital ships are less convenient than many frigates and all those things. May be I´ll come back often to ask for advice or opinion about some other matters. And may be I´ll try that martyrdom thing in one of my advent games, even if it´s just for the fun of it.

Thank you all

 

 

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April 25, 2014 4:55:40 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Swordsalmon,

Matyrdom is affected by shield mitigation, so that 250 damage gets severely reduced. A swarm of Matyred Seekers won't deal that amount of damage.

Wrong.

If you blow up all the scout ships at the same time, shield mitigation will stay at the lowest value.

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April 25, 2014 6:17:22 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Engaging a TEC starbase directly is very risky because it might (for multiplayer, read: it will) have the Red Button (security override protocol upgrade). it will wipe out frigate fleets of any size so be careful. 

 

@ tywin: Martyrdom sucks big time. even if u manage to blow them up at the same time count how many you will need to kill one fully-upped sb? There are far more effective weapons

 

@ 56ktarget OMFG, Ragnorak is good but he is smurfing and trolling way too much, Cykur is rusty! 

 

Moreover, as far as vasari are concerned, you will need to build orkulus both early and late to grab worlds while ur fleet is busy. 

@trueno the reason for caps being weak in mass is that they share experience. e.g., 1 cap will get 100 experience from a Kodiak killed, while 4 will get 100/4 = 25 exp. each. Capital ships have lower DPS than frigates for 50 fleet points, they have expensive supply research and they die too fast when frigate fleets reach 50+ sizes.

If you fight AI, tactic of grabbing the choke and sb-ing it works vs AI of any level. use the sb to level up ur titan and caps than finish the ai off.

P.S. @tywin - u give too much noobish advice

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April 25, 2014 7:34:14 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

A few more accounts, and SinKillr will be able to have full fledged conversations with himself...

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April 25, 2014 12:14:00 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting RagnorakEviscerator,
If you blow up all the scout ships at the same time, shield mitigation will stay at the lowest value.

 

Can you show me a replay where you actually managed to kill ANYTHING IMPORTANT with only suicide scoutsin a real battle? That ability sucks, mitigation makes it ridiculously weak and you cannot just simply order every scout to use this at the same time (without hitting pause which is not a good idea against real people).

BTW you would need like dozens of scouts to kill a stronger thing, and wasting so much fleet supply for killing one thing is a waste and leaves you extremely vulnerable afterwards.

 

Quoting Seleuceia,
A few more accounts, and SinKillr will be able to have full fledged conversations with himself...

 

He is already doing it, just look at his post from 2012 where Ragnorak recently wrote he agrees (was it flak area damage?).

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April 25, 2014 1:24:24 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

For those who are actually interested in martyrdom, there are 2 major problems with it....

First, it only autocasts when the ship has taken 50% hull damage...this means that if you have a ton of seekers, you have to manually order each individual one to use it's ability unless by magical coincidence all of them have less than 50% hull...even if you do get the autocast to fire, there's a good chance the ship will be destroyed before it gets to its target...

Second, there is a stacking limit of 1...this means that if multiple instances of the ability are used in a short period of time, only one instance will work...even if you fix the autocast condition or have magical micro, 1000 instances of this ability used at once will be just as damaging as one instance...

In order to fix the ability, you need allow it to fire at 100% hull....you also need to remove the stacking limit...I've tested these changes and they work beautifully, you can select however many seekers you have, give a move order on the target, and they all use their abilities (provided you have autocast on, single right click can do that for an entire stack)....

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April 25, 2014 5:06:58 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Does changing the autocast condition cause the ai to build scouts that self destrust as soon as they build? That would be hilarious.

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April 25, 2014 5:21:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

This is why you would need auto cast off by default, no good way to get the ai to use it intelligently...

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