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Rankulas- What's The Point?

By on June 5, 2014 9:15:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Swordsalmon

Join Date 03/2009
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I haven't played multiplayer SOASE for a long time; really stopped around the time Rebellion was released. I've started playing again, and one glaring ship I've noticed was the Rankulas. Unlike the other two races' new capital ships, it doesn't really fit a unique niche in a fleet. The Corsev looks to be a decent early game alternative, while the Discord provides much-needed (If Antimatter intensive) AOE and overall fleet support for the Advent. The Rankulas... really doesn't do much. Assault Swarm seems okay, but it's other abilities look like weaker versions of the Skirantra's Heal Cloud and Scramble Bombers. Does the Rankulas really do anything to make it a viable choice in multiplayer games?

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June 5, 2014 9:29:13 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

How many heads does a hydra have? Seleuceia stop trolling, we all know rankulas can be useful in some situations.

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June 6, 2014 12:43:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

At least my smurf accounts were made four years ago...your trolling is so n00bishly amateur...

To the OP...

Corsev is a decent ship...if you buy up to lvl 3, you will do really well against frigate fleets and can catch even decently skilled players off guard...unless they have an AM draining ship, they will have to run their fleets or seriously outplay you...it's a high risk, high reward strategy -- the best players still stick to the more dependable marza or akkan leads...its only good for leading on the frontline though, it's target cap makes it not so great later on in the game...

Discordia is terrible...I guess if some other faction had it, it wouldn't be so bad, but malice on the prog is just so much better and I think it's that opportunity cost that makes the Discordia bad...you are right in that the AM cost is an issue and if the ship was more AM efficient it might rival the prog...maybe...about the only thing going for it is that it can actually do an ability interrupt, so against a TEC leading with marza you get the perk of an interrupt and a fleet-winning AoE...prog would still be better though, it's AoE is better, the colonize is better for your eco, and shield regen can counter MB in a pinch...

Rankulas is iffy...some pros have used it to support SB rushing but honestly I think in virtually all cases either an egg or a skirantra would have been better...when super good players seem to do okay with it, it's really more because they are super good players and not because the ship itself is good...

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June 6, 2014 12:49:58 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I love how Seleuceia responds to himself by posting about discordias and corsevs when his OP only mentioned rankulas...

Schizophrenic much?

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June 6, 2014 1:16:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Rankulas does feel shoe-horned in. Like the devs felt like they had to give the Vasari some new type of ship to fit in with the others.

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June 8, 2014 1:41:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I like the Rankulas in theory; to me, it feels like a complement to the Skirantra.

The Skirantra can:

  • Provide fighter support
  • Heal the entire fleet
  • Deal with heavy cruisers

The Rankulas can:

  • Contribute to light frigate spam
  • Heal individual targets (which is just as important as AoE healing -- you don't want to blow an AoE heal when it's just one target taking damage)
  • Deal with structures

The problem is, the Rankulas really doesn't do any of these well enough to justify its inclusion in a fleet!

A while back, N3rull created a thread on the subject of buffing the Rankulas that generated some interesting discussion:

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/451038/page/1/

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June 8, 2014 6:48:04 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Alright, thanks for the replies. Back when I was playing regularly (Late Entrenchment- Early Rebellion), there never seemed like there was a focus on the new caps. What changes have their been in capital ship choices? It used to be really Carrier heavy; so I'd typically run AkkanxSovaxSova for AkkanxSovaxMarza as TEC.

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June 8, 2014 7:53:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

For Advent, it is almost always Prog...you see people try the other caps but if they do well, it is usually because they outplay their opponent, not because their cap choice was a good one....the prog helps win fleet battles with malice, is good for suicide and eco because of the colonize, and helps against missile barrage and Orky rushing with shield regeneration...there is no other cap that does all of those things...

If I had to pick a second cap for Advent, I'd say Halcyon...it has a decent AoE and the SC give you an edge against Orky rushing and early game battles...there really is no reason to start with any of the other caps as the prog or halcyon can do what they do, but better...there is one exception, and that is if somehow you know you will be facing a Corsev rush...in that case, a radiance probably would be better, but I'm not sure how you'd know for certain that was going to happen...

For Vasari, it is almost always the Egg...the colonize on it helps Orky rushing better than any other cap since colonizing the planet is of immense importance...nano-disassemblers also helps fight Orky rushing and drive off annoying capital ships...the other two abilities are very good at all stages of the game, so it is an excellent long term investment...

If I had to pick a second cap for Vasari, I'd say Kortul...it can take a beating early game and limits the ability usage of enemy capital ships...but really, this ship is a far 2nd from leading with the Egg, as the kortul really only shines mid and late game when titans and SC spam come on the field...

For TEC, you have a lot of options...in fact, you can successfully lead with pretty much any ship other than the Kol...personally, I like the Dunov the best...EMP does AoE damage to shields and limits the enemy's ability to use their cap abilities...it counters the fleet-killing abilities of the marza, corsev, and prog, it can interrupt and counter missile barrage, and it does all this while providing an AoE of its own...the really only downside is that it does nothing to help against Orky rushing, so you will be relying solely on sheer frigate power for that....

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June 8, 2014 7:58:28 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Radiance vs prog is actually an even matchup. Once the former hits level 6 its game over for the prog player.

Quoting Seleuceia,

For TEC, you have a lot of options...in fact, you can successfully lead with pretty much any ship other than the Kol...personally, I like the Dunov the best...EMP does AoE damage to shields and limits the enemy's ability to use their cap abilities...it counters the fleet-killing abilities of the marza, corsev, and prog, it can interrupt and counter missile barrage, and it does all this while providing an AoE of its own...the really only downside is that it does nothing to help against Orky rushing, so you will be relying solely on sheer frigate power for that....

I thought dunov was shit (according to you)? I remember getting alot of flak when I suggested it was even half-way viable.

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June 9, 2014 4:53:57 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Hydraling,
Radiance vs prog is actually an even matchup. Once the former hits level 6 its game over for the prog player.

Prog does have colonize, and excluding the occasional fight over that planet you both colonize, bomb out, colonize, repeat, etc. the radiance isn't going to counter that advantage...the map determines the usefulness of a colony cap but at the very least it will save you a colony ship and some resources upgrading population on a planet or two...in most cases, it's going to give you a decent economic advantage so overall I'm not sure it is a fair fight...in battles possibly yes, though at the beginning of the battle you'll still get a few staggered uses of malice before your AM is totally drained provided that you started with a mostly full pool...

And Dunov is not shit....we all know that....it's like 2nd best support ship in game, somewhere between marza and hoshiko....

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June 9, 2014 5:06:41 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

For Advent, it is almost always Prog...you see people try the other caps but if they do well, it is usually because they outplay their opponent, not because their cap choice was a good one....the prog helps win fleet battles with malice, is good for suicide and eco because of the colonize, and helps against missile barrage and Orky rushing with shield regeneration...there is no other cap that does all of those things...

If I had to pick a second cap for Advent, I'd say Halcyon...it has a decent AoE and the SC give you an edge against Orky rushing and early game battles...there really is no reason to start with any of the other caps as the prog or halcyon can do what they do, but better...there is one exception, and that is if somehow you know you will be facing a Corsev rush...in that case, a radiance probably would be better, but I'm not sure how you'd know for certain that was going to happen...

For Vasari, it is almost always the Egg...the colonize on it helps Orky rushing better than any other cap since colonizing the planet is of immense importance...nano-disassemblers also helps fight Orky rushing and drive off annoying capital ships...the other two abilities are very good at all stages of the game, so it is an excellent long term investment...

If I had to pick a second cap for Vasari, I'd say Kortul...it can take a beating early game and limits the ability usage of enemy capital ships...but really, this ship is a far 2nd from leading with the Egg, as the kortul really only shines mid and late game when titans and SC spam come on the field...

For TEC, you have a lot of options...in fact, you can successfully lead with pretty much any ship other than the Kol...personally, I like the Dunov the best...EMP does AoE damage to shields and limits the enemy's ability to use their cap abilities...it counters the fleet-killing abilities of the marza, corsev, and prog, it can interrupt and counter missile barrage, and it does all this while providing an AoE of its own...the really only downside is that it does nothing to help against Orky rushing, so you will be relying solely on sheer frigate power for that....

Some comments based on my sandbox testing:

  1. This is going to be controversial, but all the Vasari frontline players I've seen take the Egg as their 1st cap over-expand too quickly and then lose said territory to TEC/Advent fleets. The Vasari can't afford enough Orkies that are upgraded enough to survive the enemy fleet if they expand to too many planets. (The attacker needs only one fleet, while the defender needs an Orky at every planet or some major luck with the map so that a rush to PJIs can really protect all of its rear econ. The random 10-way maps hardly ever produce that; there's usually a way around with only 1-3 more jumps. Even in a bottleneck scenario, a 50-Disciples attacker can well afford to kill 2-3 structures [like PJIs], even in range of Vasari repair platforms, while a Orky is wailing on them, if the Disciples are backed by a Prog.) The Egg lacks a useful defensive synergy with the Orky, while the Kortul shines at that (counters group/AoE heal like the Prog and unlike the [now nerfed to one minute] Disruptor Nanites on the Vasari turret, the Kortul's and its Disruptive Strikes can chase the enemy cap all over the grav well, so the enemy cap can't really move out of range to start regenerating AM like it can do that if faced only with the Vasari DN turrets as anti-AM weapon.) In the durability department, the Egg is easily killed if the enemy brings a 30-40 Disciples fleet (or its equivalent) and doesn't chicken when they see their cap hit with disintegrating nanites once or twice. The Vasari repair platform is too weak to save any caps that don't have self repair if the enemy doesn't turn tail and starbases (Vasari one included) have horrible damage output vs. cap ships compared to what they do to a fleet, so Egg+Orky end up both dead [typically in this order, but it can be reversed if the Orky has extra firepower but fewer health upgrades] well before the enemy cap dies and the Prog's AM usage (group heal) remains undisturbed by the Egg.
  2. The Skirantra is not bad as a 2nd/defensive Vasari cap; it's the only real repair platform that the Vasari get.   Its guns needs a buff methinks; they are horribly weak, probably the weakest cap in the game in that department. The Vasari strike craft were nerfed fairly recently from what I've read somewhere on this forum. (Can't find the link right now.) Skira's guns might have been okay before that nerf, but with nowadays/weaker Vasari strike craft, the Skira simply sucks at killing even a single frigate, especially compared to the Kortul. The Kortul is also good for harassing the enemy by itself, while the Skira needs a fleet for that, so it's much less viable economically. And on the defensive, the Skira also needs DN turrets, so again is a more expensive solution than the Kortul.
  3. The Rankulas might look okay on paper, but once the enemy fleet reaches 30-40 Disciples (or their equivalent, which happens well within 20 minutes in the 5v5 games I've seen) all of Rank's abilities are completely worthless. It was probably designed to be some sort of Vasari's equivalent of the early game Corsev, which can make a little fleet for itself with captures, while the Rank can spam some AM-paid-for frigates (nanites). But the nanites become a negligible quantity very quickly on the "faster" game settings and the Rank has nothing else after that, its ultimate ability seems worthless on paper (didn't event test it); the Rank has no AoE and its repair abiliy goes away instantly in combat because they are in a flimsy external ship. The Rank is also very hard to use in real time because the nanites have extremely tiny visuals and all 3 kinds look very similar. By the time you can sort out what nanite is what kind to click them and have do something useful the poor nanites are already dead (the repair nanites in particular love to auto-cast on other nanites while the Rank itself gets pounded). Also, the cooldowns for the nanites are far too great, especially for the repair one. The Rank just sits there with AM reserves full waiting for cooldowns to expire. Sure, the Corsev does the same initially (has long cooldowns) in a fight, but the Corsev's abilities are vastly more useful, so worth waiting for, while Rank's wait is rewarded with "poof goes another useless nanite."
  4. Phase-out hull on the Marauder (which can interrupt enemy caps) is basically close-but-no-cigar compared to Kortul's AM depletion and the Marauder lacks durability/self-repair. Might be ok as a 3rd cap, but how many Vasari players have credits for that given the costs of Orky upgrades... And as a 3rd cap it would have trouble getting enough XP to reach level 6 to unlock its somewhat useful ultimate ability in a reasonable time.
  5. The Vulkoras is okay if you're somehow winning as the Vasari as it speeds up planet busting quite a bit. But the Vulkoras is no Mazra combating the enemy fleet. A Skira+Vulk combo might work in the alternate reality where the Vasari frigate fleet was competitive with the TEC/Advent one, but it ain't.
  6. As for Advent, I've seen people take Radiance even as 1st cap in 5s and it's not a bad choice as it counters' the enemy's cap ship (AM depletion+damage from that). Radiance vs Prog, even with fleet around them, the Rad wins every time in my sandbox testing.
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June 9, 2014 6:31:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Seleuceia,

And Dunov is not shit....we all know that....it's like 2nd best support ship in game, somewhere between marza and hoshiko....

I guess some people cant resist falling back to their old habits. You were so close, maybe next time Sel.

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June 9, 2014 7:11:06 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

It's like alcoholism...the closer you get, the farther you are...

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