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Suggestions for SOASE 2

By on July 31, 2014 4:42:07 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

axxo4

Join Date 05/2014
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SOASE 2 Suggestions:

i know that there have been several threads on the forums about suggestions but in this thread we are going to try to illustrate and write about a suggestion we make for soase 2, so that our suggested concept can get through and inspire StarClad

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August 5, 2014 11:04:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
Looks like another addition to the troll list... Volt, a seemingly benign modder who is even more dangerous than troll queens like Seleuceia and Ryat...
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August 6, 2014 12:03:09 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting ctholloway,

Distant Stars used to be the best mod but I don't think that was ever ported over to Rebellion, nor was it as fully realized.

Its for Rebellion. And almost fully realized.

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August 6, 2014 12:22:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
I think Volt is a better modder than Goa or Ryat. Would you agree?
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August 6, 2014 12:32:27 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Guess I didn't realize the project was picked up again, last I remember it was partially brought into rebellion and then abandoned. Good to know, I'll have to check it out I wasn't able to play Trinity without it!

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August 6, 2014 12:55:27 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,

I think Volt is a better modder than Goa or Ryat. Would you agree?

I am nothing more then a code monkey. I can't even do half of what these guys do. I do give it to Goa though as he has more experience.

Quoting ctholloway,

Guess I didn't realize the project was picked up again, last I remember it was partially brought into rebellion and then abandoned. Good to know, I'll have to check it out I wasn't able to play Trinity without it!

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/450023/get;3483841

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August 6, 2014 1:26:27 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,

I am nothing more then a code monkey. I can't even do half of what these guys do. I do give it to Goa though as he has more experience.

I'm nothing more than an ability guru 

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August 6, 2014 2:03:39 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,

As much as I hate to have it be a necessity, I think that the existence of titans dictates either tiered units or at least late-game upgrades to units.  As said before, when I experimented with doing that to capitals, it wasn't well-received, but perhaps doing so to frigates would be better.  There simply comes a point where frigates are invalidated by titan AoE.

Perhaps the solution isn't to buff frigates but rather to nerf titans or at least their ability to hurt frigates.  Capitals can't annihilate SC with impunity.  Why should titans be able to outright destroy all frigates in front of them?

Bring down titans from titans to supercapitals and we'd be in a much better place.

 

It comes down to how powerful the Titans are compared to the capitals and frigates. Titans are essentially the Supreme Commander of Experimentals. They can be game enders under some circumstances, although they are not without their weak points.

 

If Titans are like super capitals, we could even have multiple Titans on the largest of maps.

 

A really controversial proposition is what if Titans are more powerful than they are now in Sins 1, relative to the capital ships and frigates? I'm not sure this is a good idea.

 

Personally, I think what is needed is a game options slider like for fleet size. Like where you have large fleets or small ones, we could have a "super capital but cheaper option", an option of as powerful as Sins 1, or a "uber Titan option".

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August 6, 2014 2:10:53 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting UnleashedElf,

Personally, I think what is needed is a game options slider like for fleet size.

Do you even play the game? Lol.

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August 6, 2014 4:05:31 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,


Quoting UnleashedElf,

Personally, I think what is needed is a game options slider like for fleet size.



Do you even play the game? Lol.

 

For once we find ourselves in agreement Sinkillr. Strange days indeed...

 

Although.... technically it isn't a slider if you want to be picky...

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August 6, 2014 10:39:44 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Titans are just too powerful. You can rush them with feed and immediately nullify frigates.

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August 6, 2014 10:48:05 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah, I've never liked how easily Titans counter Frigates.  The concept is ok... but the abilities and what they affect, not so much.

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August 6, 2014 12:57:14 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Titans are supposed to be strong lol some times "BALANCE" or some of ur guyses itteration of it Dose not fit with the lore or the story line, id rather have deeper lore and game play then multiplayer id rather have more ships with porpous artistically rather then try to make them Fit for MP, SOASE has sp at its core not mp

They should focus on lore and sgips more rather then MP balance which is a waste of time is only the 1persent plays it

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August 6, 2014 12:58:49 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I've read through the thread and I'd just like to mention what I think about some of the ideas:

The type of the game: I've read about the option of making Sins 2 a TBS (don't know how you all feel about it now or if it's even in the picture at the moment, but still). It's a bad idea. When you make a game series, you should make the game type always the same. For Sins players, a sequel should be very familiar to them.

This is a mistake they made with SupCom -> SupCom 2. The second game had nothing that resembled a grand scale strategy anymore. It was more like an RTT and while the game itself wasn't bad, the name should have been "moderately important commander" as opposed to "Supreme Commander".

Additional units or additional factions: it's always nice to get carried away with the idea of an additional unit or faction, but when you introduce something new you always have the chance of it being not useful at all, actually bringing nothing to the game or making something else obsolete. I haven't got much problems with units that become obsolete over game-time (I really don't mind the SupCom setup, there your units also don't survive longer than five minutes) that would not be smart here. The size and many aspects of Sins can already be overwhelming without having to actively refresh your entire fleet at a certain time.

So: every unit in Sins should have its purpose. When you make a base set (5 Frigates, 5 Cruisers, 5 CapShips) for the first release, all 15 units over all 3 factions must be able to do something unique. Then you can plan ahead, in an expansion you could try to add a 4th faction, the challenge of adding another 15 units that are not OP compared to their faction-counterparts is so much that it's better to first establish what the balance is between the first 3 factions. I'm all for a 4th faction, but the time it takes to give all factions their own aspect is enormous. When Forged Alliance was added to SupCom, the 4th faction was a nice addition and it had its own aspect, but only when Forged Alliance Forever came along, the bigger imbalances were rooted out (FA suffered mostly from the lack of support from THQ, not the implementation of a 4th faction).

What you need for these two things to work for a Sins 2 game, is to start from scratch, but still look at what Sins 1 has given you. Then you can find out what the type and the style of the game must be and you can continuously look at where you are when you design the new units. It's nice to get carried away sometimes, but you have to be careful when you want to design a balanced game.

Some things I really want to see in Sins 2: a proper UI. The current Sins UI is clumsy and slow. Then again, I'm used to SupCom, where I can have the intel rings on all the time, where idle build units and idle factories are always given (ok, in Sins you will have idle factories at some point) and where the zooming system is also better. The two games are different and so the UI must be different too, if it gets to be efficient but the idea of how the SupCom UI works can help here: what about being able to give the nearest frigate factory a build order? Now you have to find the factory, select it and give the order. Similarly, it might help to be able to go to the fighter/bomber management menu without having to select your group of carriers. Simply order the ratio that you should have (2:1) and all carriers in the same gravity well will act together to achieve that ratio. This idea has to be worked out of course, if a carrier gets destroyed in a big battle, the others shouldn't just decide to rearrange their fighters and bombers for the sake of a ratio: they should wait until the battle is over.

Juist some UI things to think about.

Finally, I've read about a different intel system in Sins 2. My question is: how to implement it? If you want a sensor and a visual system working together, do you (1) let every gravity well you are in grant full visual intel to you and will sensors on a nearby gravity well give you sensor intel? Or (2) should ships and buildings and planets all have their own range of sensors and vision, so that gravity wells are not always fully covered? This idea is similar to the SupCom idea, because there you have a radar with a maximum range, that can not always cover the full battleground. If you look at it that way, every planet is a battleground and they're all linked by phase lines. I'm for system 1 for Sins, because otherwise, the intel ranges are just too small.

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August 6, 2014 1:08:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting axxo4,

Titans are supposed to be strong lol some times "BALANCE" or some of ur guyses itteration of it Dose not fit with the lore or the story line, id rather have deeper lore and game play then multiplayer id rather have more ships with porpous artistically rather then try to make them Fit for MP, SOASE has sp at its core not mp

They should focus on lore and sgips more rather then MP balance which is a waste of time is only the 1persent plays it

Then give us a dang toggle. And for the record, I play SP almost exclusively because I can't play with others with my mod installed because it's so rarely played.

I never objected to mods adding titans to the game before rebellion. Heck, I worked on a mod to do it! But forcing it on people was remarkably stupid.

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August 6, 2014 1:28:37 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting axxo4,

Titans are supposed to be strong lol some times "BALANCE" or some of ur guyses itteration of it Dose not fit with the lore or the story line, id rather have deeper lore and game play then multiplayer id rather have more ships with porpous artistically rather then try to make them Fit for MP, SOASE has sp at its core not mp

They should focus on lore and sgips more rather then MP balance which is a waste of time is only the 1persent plays it

Titans are almost a hard-counter to frigates, though.  That's not the way to go, because the presence of one on a battlefield sometimes means you might as well withdraw your frigate fleet or risk merely feeding the Titan.

Also, balance =/= lore.

 

@Plasma_Wolf_4X,

Thanks for your input.  I especially like the fighter/bomber management suggestion.  I'd like to see similar, too, for actual fleet compositions (and seems this is a suggestion thread on SoaSE 2... http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/433718/page/1/)

Fleet Management Window

Similar in concept to the Research or Diplomacy windows, only for management of your fleets.

Note: By "fleet", I don't mean just formed fleets, but even independent ships grouped by gravity well.

Purpose?

  • Reduce micromanagement of general fleet maintenance through seeing general fleet stats quickly and easily, and auto-queuing/building/dispatching of ships.

What would it do?

  • Would allow quick view of fleet ship composition and Hull/Shield HP %ages similar to mousing over the fleet strength indicator bar next to a world when you're zoomed out, only for all your fleets simultaneously.
  • Would allow for virtual fleet building similar in concept to a fleet calculator.  Would also allow for saving/naming of these virtually built fleets (and current).
  • Would allow for (toggleable on/off) auto-queuing/building/dispatching of ships based on current or saved virtual fleets.  When a ship is lost in a fleet, it will automatically select the "closest" appropriate factory based on build/queue/travel time (basically whatever results in the ship getting to its destination the fastest, even if it is being queued on a factory that already has several other ships in line) to rebuild the lost ship and automatically have the ship plot a course for the fleet it belongs to, or a set rally point.

Note: When I'm referring to the ships being queued up for being built, this should be some sort of internal queue to the Fleet Manager itself, not the actual factory in case new factories are built or the auto-queue of some fleets are toggled on/off.

It would also be possible, through alternate windows/views in this one (similar to the different research techs (offensive/defensive/civilian/etc) or diplomacy window showing the different players) for it to become a viable replacement to the Empire Tree, allowing the Empire Tree to then serve the purpose of "critical monitoring" and the functionalities of the Fleet Management window could be extended to incorporate the structures around the various planets.

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August 6, 2014 5:01:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Edit: wrong thread.

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August 6, 2014 5:54:10 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Something I'd like to see from the SupCom series in the next Sins release is an autobuild feature; a system that enables you to select how many of what units you want and when some are destroyed in battle you don't have to manually replace them.

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August 6, 2014 7:13:08 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Or better yet, a smart-build system that also chooses the nearest factories to build those ratios from and automatically send the ships to the fleets that lost them.

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August 6, 2014 9:08:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Plasma_Wolf_4X,

Finally, I've read about a different intel system in Sins 2. My question is: how to implement it? If you want a sensor and a visual system working together, do you (1) let every gravity well you are in grant full visual intel to you and will sensors on a nearby gravity well give you sensor intel? Or (2) should ships and buildings and planets all have their own range of sensors and vision, so that gravity wells are not always fully covered? This idea is similar to the SupCom idea, because there you have a radar with a maximum range, that can not always cover the full battleground. If you look at it that way, every planet is a battleground and they're all linked by phase lines. I'm for system 1 for Sins, because otherwise, the intel ranges are just too small.

 

The way I envisioned it is this:

 

When you own a planet, you have full visual coverage. So you can see everything (that isn't cloaked assuming cloaking is available)

then, one phase jump away from your owned planet you get sensor coverage. Either you get this by default, or there could be a structure or a technology that gives it. Tech could perhaps be available to expand the range to 2 grav wells.
Or potentially you could make it ranged based, but I think one jump away is better for gameplay.


When your ships are in a hostile or neutral grav well, you have sensor coverage, but only visual LOS from your ships.
So enemy ships on the other side of the planet for example, would appear as sensor contacts, but you wouldn't see what type of ships they are until you have line of sight.

You could potentially make the 'sensor contacts' scale in sized based on class. So fighter contacts are small, frigate contacts bit bigger, then cruiser, capital and lastly titans.

 

Then certain grav wells might also disrupt sensors say like magnetic storms and plasma storms meaning you would have to be in the grav well to see any enemies (also allowing for ambushes)

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August 6, 2014 9:09:11 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

err... darn

 

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August 7, 2014 2:42:45 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

The regrettabl.e part about getting excited for a sequel and a new race that skins like may not happen is you start desperately wishing to play as that race..

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August 7, 2014 8:21:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

 

The first thing I would like to see would be proper solar/star systems, with planets orbiting stars.

Being able to set star type (color), number of planets around the system (0-12), type of planet, number of moons, asteroids belts and comets, etc. would be cool.

Make it so size, distance, type, etc. would affect habitability.

Also add more species or species customization. Being able to choose species attributes, culture, survivability, etc.

Look up a game called Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain. It did this really well!

It gave you some default species:

Humans who were average.

A warrior species, who excel at combat but are poor at everything but weapons research.

A espionage species, who are good at preventing spread of other cultures and great at stealing other species ships/technology but poor at everything except espionage research.

A research species, great at all research, poor at combat but good at moving in 3D space, so are good at defence.

A builder species, could obviously build everything at a faster pace.

A resilient/breeder species. Excelled at living in almost any condition and could colonise any planet type with no problem. But were very dumb and poor at research/everything else.

But what it really excelled at was species customisation. I can’t remember it all of it off the top of my head but you could set thing like:

Species temperature preference: Freezing, Cold, Mild, Hot, Boiling. This would affect how adaptable a species was to a certain planet, affecting growth rate and economy. Star type, planet type and distance from star would affect a planets temperature.

Research Ability: Setting how well a species completes a certain type of research, Low, Average or High. I think categories included Energy Weapons, Missiles, Shields, Economy and Colonisation.

Species Culture: Choosing a culture would affect how well a species excels at certain things. For example warriors excel at combat, researchers develop technology faster, traders get an economy boost, diplomats excel at relations with other empires, hostile suffers in relations with other species but stop culture spread from other species, spies excel at espionage.

Other traits including being subterranean, which would remove a species need to select a temperature preference.

There were quite a few more options but I can’t remember them.

Really look at Pax Imperia: Eminent Domain, it has a lot of cool ideas in it which I think have been lost in the modern gaming era.

If I get the chance I will re-install it so I can see all the old options.

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August 7, 2014 8:25:47 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Lol no.

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August 7, 2014 8:30:21 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

@Orchestration,

Your first 3 lines I agree with.  After that, no.  For this game, the species and what they're "good" at is locked in.

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August 7, 2014 8:38:15 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Dang it..  After Tachyon, this thread just seems sad...  Maybe it's just that I grew too attached to my vision of the Chasers...  I guess I could always mod them...  But if I did that, I'd feel guilty if I didn't use Buff Builder which means I'd need to finish that, but I'm probably not gonna finish that unless I get absurdly and bizarrely motivated, Sins rebounds (maybe Tachyon magically makes Sins more lively), or I get help.

Dang it.

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