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Undeniable proof support cruisers are underpowered

By on August 5, 2014 2:51:00 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Sinkillr

Join Date 04/2010
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I'm talking about the trio of misfits: Cielo, Domina, and subverter. While they had their role in diplomacy and early rebellion, the usefulness of these ships have slowly diminished since that time. I have seriously not seen any of these ships used for at least 150 games. And no wonder, they're so goddamn expensive and have paper thin armor. Any titan above level 1 can kill them within seconds. And what a pity, since the abilities are actually pretty powerful and add much needed depth to the game. It doesn't matter if they are essential to an super end-game superfleet, because no game today reaches that stage anyway (not to mention no one uses it in late or mid) It's better to have something that's OP with some people using it than something that's UP with no one using it. I propose several solutions:

 

1. LOWER the crystal cost for both ships AND RESEARCH

Seriously? 80 crystal for all three ships? This makes zero sense considering the cielo has a 25 metal cost. Even more puzzling is the research for the second ability. 1400/250/400. WTF? I could build another radiance with that money. I suggest flip flopping the metal and the crystal costs.

 

2. Increase health

Right now they die from a Eradica just sneezing on them. Buff their health by 100 points

 

3. Reduce military lab cost to tier 3

This would add so much depth to the game but sadly most people are too frightened of change to agree

 

The only concern I have with buffing the Subverters is that it might make the VL titan even more overpowered, even against carriers. (creds to another poster for making me think of this original idea, although he didn't think of it)

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August 5, 2014 3:01:55 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I'll try to upload a replay showing how underpowered they are.

 

Oh wait, I don't have any because no one uses them.

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August 5, 2014 3:17:10 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Of the three, I think you are most likely to see the domina for it's heal...I've seen it twice in recent memory, one time to support a titan and another time to prevent a marza with MB from being disabled...I think the only reason it even worked because the enemy probably didn't even think to kill the things...

I haven't seen the other two since rebellion came out...

For the domina, it probably could use a buff to HP...when you compare it to the hoshiko, it is really squishy and I think that is the biggest problem...while its disable ability isn't particularly useful at that stage of the game, the heal ability is really good and would be worth having if the ships weren't so easy to kill...I don't think cost is relevant to this ship considering how late it comes, and I don't think it would be wise to lower the lab requirement considering the power of guardians...

For the cielo, I think it only needs a slight tweak...damage reduction is a really good debuff, but it takes so long to setup since the cielo must face its target to use the ability...I think if you just removed that restriction, the ship would be a lot easier to use and would actually get to use its ability before being destroyed...

For the subverter, I think the issue is similar to that of the cielo -- you have to face the target before jumping with distortion field...if you didn't have to face the target, the ship would be so much easier to use and its lack of survivability wouldn't be as much of a problem...I would also consider buffing the range to its original value -- the debuff in late diplomacy was necessary at the time, but titans have really changed things and made frigate disablers not nearly as useful...I think it needs to be reverted to the larger range (I'm talking the range of the AoE, not the range of the initial cast) and that would make it an excellent ship for hunting carrier fleets (VR really needs this)...

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August 5, 2014 9:45:49 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

And again here is that one thread that actually makes sense from Sinkillr. Its like a broken analog clock.

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August 5, 2014 12:27:25 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Wait... Is this thread legitimate?

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August 5, 2014 1:55:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Volt_Cruelerz,

Wait... Is this thread legitimate?

Seems so, since Seleuceia would have said something about chaining damage if it wasn't.

I vote for option 2.

 

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August 5, 2014 2:18:17 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Increased health would probably be ideal...  Actually, I'd rather titans just weren't a thing, but...

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August 5, 2014 5:46:33 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
I vote for option 2.


I like how Goafan tacitly admits he and Sel plan out their trolling. And to the new players here, ignore what Goafan has to say. He is our Chief troll in this community.

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August 5, 2014 5:54:44 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,
I like how Goafan tacitly admits he and Sel plan out their trolling. And to the new players here, ignore what Goafan has to say. He is our Chief troll in this community.

Yeah, I know... he's just constantly spamming the forums with troll threads....

 

Oh, wait....

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August 5, 2014 6:19:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting furyofthestars,


Quoting Sinkillr,
I like how Goafan tacitly admits he and Sel plan out their trolling. And to the new players here, ignore what Goafan has to say. He is our Chief troll in this community.



Yeah, I know... he's just constantly spamming the forums with troll threads....

 

Oh, wait....

I also like where he quotes the part where I was entirely serious.

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August 5, 2014 7:36:01 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting GoaFan77,
I also like where he quotes the part where I was entirely serious.
Or WERE you?!?

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August 5, 2014 7:58:42 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

I don't see the lack of early healing as large of a problem for advent, in fact over all the changes proposed by sinkillr would be to buff the vasari massively, give the TEC a moderate buff, and the advent a small change.  Honestly, domina's don't add nearly as much to the advent fleet(as it's balanced around not having healing as it is) as say a cielo, while subverters are just insane when used by a skilled player.  Luckily, so many games end or minidump before the game gets to the point where vasari just win with subverter spam.  But they aren't OP...Oh no...not at all.

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August 5, 2014 8:02:26 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting sareth01,

I don't see the lack of early healing as large of a problem for advent, in fact over all the changes proposed by sinkillr would be to buff the vasari massively, give the TEC a moderate buff, and the advent a small change.  Honestly, domina's don't add nearly as much to the advent fleet(as it's balanced around not having healing as it is) as say a cielo, while subverters are just insane when used by a skilled player.  Luckily, so many games end or minidump before the game gets to the point where vasari just win with subverter spam.  But they aren't OP...Oh no...not at all.

Yeah that's my concern too. But I wouldn't classify them as "insane," because no one uses them. Just because a ship is good in one game out of 200 does not mean it is useful.

So I'm guessing a small buff for subs, moderate buff for cielo? TBH, I don't really care much for domina since guardians are the best support cruiser in the game and the advent repair platform combined with prog healing makes regen not a big deal for advent.

 

Quoting GoaFan77,


Quoting furyofthestars,






Quoting Sinkillr,



I like how Goafan tacitly admits he and Sel plan out their trolling. And to the new players here, ignore what Goafan has to say. He is our Chief troll in this community.




Yeah, I know... he's just constantly spamming the forums with troll threads....

 

Oh, wait....



I also like where he quotes the part where I was entirely serious.

I like how Goa didn't realize that was intentional. But what else would you expect from a troll lord.

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August 5, 2014 8:53:45 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

When the normal trolls don't troll your thread, time to troll it yourself!

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August 5, 2014 8:56:51 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,

I like how Goa didn't realize that was intentional. But what else would you expect from a troll lord.

I've long sense given up on trying to understand your logic or intentions, wanna be troll king.

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August 5, 2014 11:05:50 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums
Can you stop trolling? Here we are, having a productive discussion until you have the audacity to turn it into a troll thread.
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August 5, 2014 11:59:29 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Teun-A-Roonius,

Or WERE you?!?

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August 6, 2014 12:25:06 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Ryat- Master or Moron?

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August 6, 2014 12:44:30 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,

Ryat- Master or Moron?

Both actually

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August 6, 2014 6:37:53 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Yeah that's my concern too. But I wouldn't classify them as "insane," because no one uses them. Just because a ship is good in one game out of 200 does not mean it is useful.

So I'm guessing a small buff for subs, moderate buff for cielo? TBH, I don't really care much for domina since guardians are the best support cruiser in the game and the advent repair platform combined with prog healing makes regen not a big deal for advent.

Oh I still remember the dt clan's micro of subverters.  It was pretty much over when they had subverters, because they lock down a whole area around them.  Naturally, with all the aoe of the titans and such, the game has changed and subverter's won't be so one sided.  Yet, they are still very strong, especially when u have a vasari production world nearby that can endlessly spam them into the fight(factoring in kosturas and such, that could mean just about anywhere on the map).

Honestly, get a modder to make it so that you can test it.

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August 6, 2014 10:00:54 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Ryat,

And again here is that one thread that actually makes sense from Sinkillr. Its like a broken analog clock.
Quoting Seleuceia,

When the normal trolls don't troll your thread, time to troll it yourself!
Keep in mind - just when you think it's safe to contribute to what you think is a legitimate thread - BAM!  The original content edits will make the thread look like we are all trolling why there are so many support cruisers with chain damage.

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August 7, 2014 9:38:13 AM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Protoplazm,
Keep in mind - just when you think it's safe to contribute to what you think is a legitimate thread - BAM!  The original content edits will make the thread look like we are all trolling why there are so many support cruisers with chain damage.

ie, if the thread starter is Sinkillr, first poster in should quote his OP.

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August 7, 2014 5:13:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

THAT IDEA IS GENIOUS

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August 7, 2014 7:12:05 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Will you ever stop trolling?

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August 7, 2014 8:33:59 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Look at that guy, bathing in all his karma points!

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August 7, 2014 9:26:52 PM from Sins of a Solar Empire Forums Sins of a Solar Empire Forums

Quoting Sinkillr,

Will you ever stop trolling?

 

You've changed Sinkillr... it seems your just in it for the Karma these days.

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