TO STARDOCK: Delay GalCiv!

from Stardock Forums
With Masters of Orion now coming out at almost the same time as GalCiv, I really think Stardock needs to seriously consider delaying the game's release by at least 4 weeks.
Based on what I've read on both and from playing the GalCiv betas, I think GalCiv is a far superior game to MOO3. But I'm going to also buy MOO 3. It's a MOO game. 'nuff said. And I bet I'm not the only one.
How many mag covers has GalCiv had? None as far as I know. It's going to be succesful as a sleeper title. The game that the mags paid almost no attention to.
But it'll never get a chance to do that if it has to be on the shelves at the same time as MOO3. Even if MOO3 is total junk, it'll still get all the attention.
But if you delay GalCiv just a few weeks, for good or bad MOO3 will have had its time to sink or swim and GalCiv will be poised to either capitalize on the renewed interest in space strategy games or on picking up disappointed MOO3 players. It's win-win.

I also think that GalCiv players should hope for MOO3 to be successful. If both games come out at the same time then they're going to hurt each other. Lots of people can't afford 2 games at the same time. They'll buy one or the other. That'll hurt MOO and it'll hurt GalCiv and it'll hurt strategy gamers.

So please consider delaying GalCiv by a few weeks. Listen to your customers. Think of the stuff you could add to the game in another 4 weeks. GalCiv deserves its own day in the sun, not having to compete for air time with another big name strategy game.
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Reply #1 from Stardock Forums Top
I agree this is a bad move considering that MOO's a very well known brand, you should try to delay at least 2/3 months.
Reply #2 from Stardock Forums Top
i think 2 months will be too long. but ya i'd wait 3 or 4 weeks after moo 3 is at the store to release.
The Political Machine 2024
Reply #3 from Stardock Forums Top
It's a tough call indeed. No one is looking forward to MOO 3 more than I am. I've been a MOO fan for many years.

We are discussing the possibility of moving the game back a few weeks. I'd prefer that players see these games as allies and not competitors. A successful GalCiv and MOO 3 will create new market oppportunities for more in depth strategy games. Otherwise, the future belongs to the Warcrafts and Age of Mythologies of the world (don't get me wrong, I like those games but I also want deeper strategy games).
Reply #4 from Stardock Forums Top
Delay, no way! I want people going to the store to buy moo3 and seeing GALCIV and saying, 'Hey, what's this!'.

Seriously, moo3 looks like 'spreadsheets in space'...really, what were they thinking??? I think it will tank hard and I want GALCIV there to be an alternative.

Word gets out pretty fast when a not-so-hot game comes out.

-MB
Reply #5 from Stardock Forums Top

Best to wait a bit and quash all the little annoying bugs that are still popping up.

MoO will probably be out earlier then the projected date of the 26th and I don't think that you want to release GalCiv quickly, in its curent state.

Use the time to release a few more betas and make CalCiv that much more stable and appealing.

In either event they both get my vote, and a chunk of my gaming budget. ;)

Elrikk
Reply #6 from Stardock Forums Top
I have to say I agree with the running consensus. Moo3 is by far the better known game of the two. It will get bought while GalCiv sits gathering dust. None of us here wants that.

By waiting an extra month you get into the next edition of the game review magazines. I think C&C Generals will be out in two months time so it'll be in the same edition. However I'm not aware of any major strategy titles out in 2 months time. I could of course be wrong.

I'm trying to drum up interest in GalCiv over at PC Gamer UK. I've got a thread on their Strategy board but so far a search of Moo3 will turn up a LOT more threads than GalCiv has even had mentions!

Will an extra month hurt sales? Will it make the game worse? With the pre-buy Beta system the hardcore get to play the game anyway so I'm not seeing any "sell-out" that the fans of Moo3 feel with the constant "Gold Very soon" that has been in place since November 28th 2002. It went gold a few days ago btw.

Make sure you get the gold discs out to the PC Gamer magazines in both the US and UK (I'm unaware of other country's editions). They are the most important and respected games review bodies and they will give GalCiv a fair hearing (I suspect a score of 80% due to the low gfx - expect Moo3 to get 85%).

Most hard core strat fans will take an awesome AI over a little better eye candy any day. Hopefully the review bodies will mention this and Stardock can get the extra sales they deserve.

So please don't go head to head with Moo3! I intend to buy both. Most don't have that luxury.

Thanks for reading,

SithUK
Reply #7 from Stardock Forums Top
I've been waiting a long time for a Windows based GalCiv. I have been playing the beta since November. The game is progressing nicely. A delay now would give the developers a chance to really polish it and make it shine. :)

Brad once wote a paper stating why GalCiv could not run under Windows. That paper was deleted from the StarDock Archives. Please post it again.
Reply #8 from Stardock Forums Top
No offense to anyone on the board, or this game itself, I've already bought the beta of this game and it was fun watching the game develop from three or four months ago, however, they've spent years on moo3 and the complexity is absolutely insane, it was so complex they had to dumb it down back in june because it wasn't fun enough, hell, they even pushed the ship date past christmas even though the single player was already done and rock solid....I have to give them mad props for shipping a complete game that they took the time to iron out almost all of the known bugs, even in multiplayer. But I would have to say that galciv and moo3 are two entirely different games, there is more strategy to moo3, but I think the more "action" oriented galciv will appeal more to the masses, I for one think its a really good game but I don't think I would put it above moo3, but then again I haven't really played it yet (moo3).....and now I can't play galciv with the extra media for some reason, but that will be posted on another thread. Keep up the good work stardock, but I agree with the consensus that it should be delayed a bit... (:(
Reply #9 from Stardock Forums Top
Well it doesn't hurt to do more bug hunting in the extra month and to make a hype(this game is good, so no hurt to hype it)

I would say, make a poll about it on the main galciv page.
Reply #10 from Stardock Forums Top
Since you want to Gamma test in the weeks before the release, why not just keep selling the Beta until last week in February. I see alot of new names on the forum. How many beta testers are there?
Reply #11 from Stardock Forums Top
Casper: You highlight a good reason for GalCiv to come out AFTER. Lots of people have given MOO3 the benefit of the doubt to the Nth degree.

Without even playing a beta of the game you are giving them "props" for shipping a completed game that has "more strategy" than GalCiv and that you are quite sure MOO3 is better than GalCiv. Again, all that without having played MOO3 at all and with GalCiv still in beta.
Reply #12 from Stardock Forums Top
I'd rather see GalCiv go on time. Despite what someone here posted, GalCiv is pretty ready to go gold imminently if it wanted to. Sure, another month would allow other cool features to be added but in an age where so many games ship late, it's nice to see a game have and keep a ship date.

Then again...as Brad illustrates above, you got people that think masters of orion is going to be the greatest thing since sliced bread without having tried it.
Reply #13 from Stardock Forums Top
Tandis - that is probably true - as long as all the bugs that I hope and believe are in hand are eradicated.
Reply #14 from Stardock Forums Top
If GC comes out after MOO3, what would be the affect on GC of MOO3 bombing? Will there be a backlash? Will people see GC come on the shelves and say, "What? Another space strategy game? No thanks."? Why my pessimism? I bought CIV3 after many years of enjoying Civ2 and was very dissappointed by Cid Meier's changes of philosophy. I have since looked at every PC game I see on the shelves with deep sceptisizm. GC beating MOO3 to the shelves (and I was expressing hope for this last August on this forum) would have ensured GC's success, but I am fearful for GC's success if it follows MOO3.

I agree that the bugs should be fixed and the game solid before it gets shipped, but what I am seeing in posts from Brad, Alex, and Scott is the addition of more features which are certain to introduce more bugs and playability problems, causing more delays.

:Stand on soap box.
Now is NOT the time to add more fluff. It is the time to make sure the product is solid and get it on the shelves.
:Get off soap box.

Sigh.
Reply #15 from Stardock Forums Top
Jack.

I agree. If new features are being added perhaps all the posted bugs are sorted out?

This forum is filling up with debate about optimal release dates v's this and that. To my mind this debate is a bit peripheral as I looki forward to a new beta that addresses all the bugs and polishes that are needed. It is going to be one hell of a beta build if every bit of needed spit and polish is in place which is needed before release - whatever the date.
Reply #16 from Stardock Forums Top
Frogboy: I'm giving them props for seeing the bugs through instead of rushing out for the christmas buying season and releasing a patch (not saying there won't be patches, but the way people release bad software to make a quick buck then fix it later...kinda discourages people), I've played galciv, and I can already tell you moo3 (even without playing) and moo2 were better in my personal opinion....key phrase there....in my personal opinion....this game has more of a homegrown feeling to it....it's really good(I even stuck up for galciv and the way you guys did "beta testing" on the infrogames moo3 forum, I took an insane amount of flack for that) , and I've had a lot of fun playing, I never played the original.....however, what I do know is that there is a general knowledge of MOO3....and there isn't of galciv....if they see both on the shelf.... more than likely.... they will purchase what they know. If they have already bought moo3, and they see this new release out a month later, "hey...thay game looks pretty cool too, I'm tired of moo3...let's check this one out...." thankfully I bought this one a while back and I don't have to worry about the descision.....


if you guys are still adding features as lucky jack says, there is no way you have time to do full testing... delay it, make sure all of the bugs are out, then release it... if quicksilver hadn't, they would have beat you to the shelf half a year early.... Just my own humble opinion though....

just out of curiosity, doesn't beta mean the features are complete and it's ready for bug testing??
Reply #17 from Stardock Forums Top
It seems the company listen to you, here what we've just got :

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE


The race for the galaxy is coming…soon.



Montreal, Quebec. January 28, 2003 – Publisher Strategy First and Developer Stardock announced today that the release date for their upcoming 4X space-based strategy game, Galactic Civilizations, has been updated to March 25, 2003.



The decision to hold back the release of Galactic Civilizations came after the recent delay of Quicksilver/Infogrames’s Master of Orion 3.



“Gamers have been waiting a long time for the next generation of space based strategy games to arrive. By ensuring that these two games come out at different times, players will have the opportunity to get to know each of them,” said Brad Wardell, Project Lead on Galactic Civilizations at Stardock.



“As a result of our close relationship with Infogrames we’ve been given this unique opportunity that will benefit both of these games and their fans,” says Steve Milburn, Director of Marketing for Strategy First. “They are so different in so many ways that we feel the best thing for fans of this genre is to give them time to enjoy each game on its own.”

Reply #18 from Stardock Forums Top
So, what happens if MOO3 delays for another month?
Reply #20 from Stardock Forums Top
MOO3 is in manufacturing now. It'll be out in mid February.
Reply #22 from Stardock Forums Top
Casper: But unless you're on the beta, you don't know whether MOO3 is rock solid or not. Maybe it is. You're making some pretty big assumptions.

Dakatana was delayed for similar reasons and it wasn't exactly bug free. Same for BC3K.
Reply #23 from Stardock Forums Top
I think the decision to delay GalCiv is a very good one. Although I don't have to worry about finding money to buy games, having been playing GalCiv everyday for several weeks now, I have to say that I will be switching to MoO3 as soon as I get it, if for no other reason than to play something new. The gap between the games will give me the chance to hammer MoO3 for several weeks and then come back to the Released GalCiv. And then all I have to do is find a way to balance my time between both games, plus Unreal 2 and Freelancer. Its going to be one hell of a Quarter.

From my point of view, its all good. ;p
Reply #24 from Stardock Forums Top
As a developer and gamer, I am pleased with the decision. I really do want to see both games be viewed for their own merits.

Coming out 4 weeks after release will mean MOO3 will have been released and gotten its first reviews.

Had they come out at the same time, there is always the chance both games would have gotten smaller reviews so that some game mags could do head to head ones or something.

Plus, there are a handful of cool features I'd like to throw in there and some polish issues that we'll be able to really nail. Like today, instead of wrapping up critical bugs we were able to address things like choppy explosion animations.
Reply #25 from Stardock Forums Top
I think you've got the good decision :D

It is true that many gaming journalists like to do head to head, I know what I'm saying ;p