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Blog: Will Windows Vista attract new skinners?

Blog: Will Windows Vista attract new skinners?

A prelude to the state of skinning 2006..

Is it day or night? I'm losing track. Things at Stardock are in total crunch mode.  We have a big project for Microsoft that is due very soon as part of the Windows Vista Ultimate Extras that I think a lot of people will be talking about very soon. A good chunk of our art team is working on content and some of our top developers are working on the software.  The good news is that we'll have a super-charged version of one of the extensions as part of Object Desktop (I can't really give specifics yet).

Windows Vista is really going to usher in a new era of customization.  Today we went through what is needed to do a Boot Screen changer for Windows Vista. That won't be too much pain. What will take more effort will be a LogonStudio for Vista. But it's doable and with any luck, we'll have both done before the Winter is over.  This Windows Vista migration is really quite a project for us.  Windows XP is very popular. And no Microsoft OS has been out without an update this long. Ever. Over 5 years now. So we have to keep supporting XP even as we get our software working on Vista.  This has resulted in a much slower set of updates as everyone is working on the Vista stuff. It's definitely been tough to be quiet with regards to the one new Windows Vista project that has been done for awhile.  But the wait is almost over.  The long wait for Vista has, however, had a dramatic effect on the world of skinning that I'll get to in a minute.

Work on WinCustomize 2K7 continues apace. We're looking at a launch in January to coincide with our support for the new Microsoft content that I can't talk about yet in specifics. One of the big projects for next year will be to help make both software and website content that makes it easier for new users and casual users to make interesting things.  We have a new "super widget" type program in development for Windows Vista (mid next year) that is designed to allow pure-artists to make widgets without having to write scripts or XML or whatever. 

There's been a few interesting CursorXP themes made lately.  Meanwhile, work on a CursorVista is in progress.  They'll use the same content so what to call the gallery here on WinCustomize and elsewhere gets kind of interesting. Serves us right calling is something XP. Razor's Edge looks interesting.

Meanwhile, the ObjectBar gallery still only has one theme and that was made by the lead developer. It's not hard to make a theme for it. In fact, it's very easy. And making cool skins for it isn't hard either. It's pretty well documented here.  The gallery's one submission has over 4,000 skins. So this begs the question: Why aren't there more themes? In fact, across the board the question is "Where are the skinners?" 

The trend I've been seeing with skinning in the past few years is that the more users we get, the fewer skinners we get. You'd think they'd both rise together. But that hasn't been the case. And the trend I mention I think is largely coincidental. The problem is that tinkering with the OS isn't interesting anymore. Windows XP has been around so long now that the adventure is long since stale and now it's just a tool. And skinning really involves people who are excited to tinker with the OS.  That applies both to making software and making content.

Back in 1999 in the Skinz.org era, it was a tiny community in which there seemed to be as many skinners and users.  Now, there's millions of users and hardly any skinners.  Consider this: In the last GUI Championships, 16 of the 26 winners were from China.  None game from Europe. NONE. And only 6 came from the United States.  What the hell happened? Interest in using skins certainly hasn't gone down. That's very easy to verify both in traffic and in sales.  But the # of skinners out there has declined dramatically. Why? Because monkeying around with Windows XP isn't interesting anymore. It stopped being interesting a couple years ago. It's been done. We've squeezed all the juice out. As a result, far fewer new skinners have come into the community and it's doubly so for software developers.

Look at the state of customization software.  I remember back in 2001 when Windows XP hackers started patching their uxtheme.dll. There was a post on Neowin.net that went "I wish WindowBlinds would just die, there's no need for it now". It was obviously wrong then but imagine where things would stand now if that had happened. Vista isn't skinnable by any reasonable definition. You have Aero. Sure, some hackers will probably figure out how to change the little PNG images buried in the resources (and only then after they patch three files -- and some of them only after eating crow after screaming about it being a vector based UI -- but I digress). But that's not skinning. That's Windows 3.1 all over again where people used to patch the User.exe file with new bitmaps for the title bar controls.  Where are the new skinning programs coming from?  Just as there are now millions of people wanting to do cool stuff the number of developers seems to have declined.  It's like "Hey, we won! We convinced the world that they want to customize their desktop!" and then they left to go to Linux or who knows what.  The long delay in Windows Vista has brought skinning to its knees even as the # of users making use of skinning has skyrocketed.

So Windows Vista is just about here. Will this revive the skinning community? Will it bring in new skinners who want to make cool new stuff? Will it attract up and coming software developers to create new things? That's what I am hoping for. New OSes cry out to be tinkered with. And tinkering brings the skinners and developers. As a community, we need those people. It can't be all users.

So who is going to make the skins and themes and icons? Will Vista bring a new generation? What are the alternatives? Let's look at the possibilities.

Every now and then you'll see someone complain how Stardock "exploits" its users because it "relies" on other people to make content for its programs. The argument goes that if the skins are free, then it's wrong for Stardock to charge money for its software. I've never looked at it like that because to me, labor is labor. We all have a threshold of labor we'll provide before we want to be paid for that labor. A software program that takes a month to make (like a good skin) will tend to be freeware. A software program that takes years to make, will probably not be freeware (assuming it has the same authors). Hence BootSkin and LogonStudio are free because they didn't involve huge amounts of labor. But WindowBlinds is not.

We have seen the relationship between labor and charging as suites have become more popular. A few years ago, a few skinners banded together and began selling skins (Pixtudio led the way) put together into a coherent suite. Creating a skin can be a lot of work. Creating a full OS skin, an icon package, a wallpaper and a bunch of other stuff is quite a bit of work.  But in the skinning community, if there was hostility by some towards commercial software, it was nothing compared to the hostility of commercial skinning.  For example, in 2001, Customize.org (the very first skin site) banned screenshots or mention of non-free content.  Pixtudio had released a new suite. The suite also included a ton of free skins that were uploaded across the net. But the admins of Skinz.org and Customize.org condemned the concept of selling skins. Me, Skins Factory,  JCRabbit, and others, who had nothing to do with Pixtudio, defended the concept. You can read the thread here.  Here's another thread (back before Style XP started charging $20 to patch your OS -- very ironic).  It is worth noting that the participants on the pro side of the issue are almost all still here.  Me, Skins Factory, JCRabbit, (to name 3) are all still very active.

Simply put, the gulf between those who believe the amount of labor to create a thing is the determining factor between free/non-free vs. the people who believe that the type of thing being created is the determining factor between free/non-free is huge. A less charitable person might say that the gulf between the people who put in labor and the people who want free stuff is huge (since the debates almost always involve developers/skinners on one side and mostly non-skinners/non-developers on the other side hiding their unwillingness to compensate people for immense labor beyind a facade of righteousness -- but I digress <g>).

Of course, there's a second important factor in determining whether something is free or non-free: How fun is the labor to do? Skinning is fun. That's why people do it. It's fun. And people can share their creations with others and interact with people from around the world. No new OS for 5 years has, in my opinion, made it less fun. Combine that with more effort needed to make something that stands out and you get less "stuff" or at best, less interesting stuff. 

So here's the situation on the eve of Windows Vista: There are now millions and millions of people who want skins. Skinning is mainstream. But the number of users creating free skins has declined.  So what's going to happen?  My guess is one of two things: Either Windows Vista will reinvigorate skinning just as Windows XP did when it came out or it won't (or somewhere in between).  If it does, then there will be lots of great free skins.  If it doesn't, it's going to get very commercial very fast.  And if it's somewhere in between, you'll see some commercial skins and lots of free skins.  The demand is there. It will get filled. The question is, by who?

On WinCustomize 2007 skin authors who reach the access level of  "Master" or higher will be able to sell their skins right on the site as part of the gallery. It's almost completely automated -- like uploading a regular skin except the skinner names their price and it goes through more moderation scrutiny. Obviously, to get to be a master you have to release a lot of free high quality content. But as a hobby, it's not a bad prospect to generate what can amount to significant amounts of revenue.  Based on early stats, I think that some skinners could actually make a full time living on it.  But -- here's the kicker -- some people won't be happy about this prospect of there being non-free content.  But that's the catch, either people will volunteer to make cool stuff or the option will be to pay for it.  Personally, a few bucks for a good skin isn't a big deal. But if someone doesn't want to pay for skins, best to pick up SkinStudio and start learning to skin. If artwork is an issue, team up with someone on-line who can make the graphics but doesn't know how to skin.  I have no art skills. But I've made plenty of skins.  BTW, WC subscribers get a big discount on those skins I mentioned.

To make a long story short -- Windows Vista took too long to get out there. As a result, a lot of OS tinkerers have moved onto other things. A tiny fraction of OS tinkerers become skinners. An even tinier fraction become software developers. In turn, the amount of new skins being released these days has declined dramatically even though the number of users has greatly increased.  Windows Vista, I think, will have reignite the love of skinning. Stardock is working on a bunch of new programs we think will help in that area. But I also think that in the absence of free skins, you're going to see an increasing number of premium content from skinners.  Anyone who objects to that I have this advice: Start skinning.

23,302 views 48 replies
Reply #26 Top
Sure skinning has dropped off a bit, mostly due to people tinkering around with vista, i think a lot more people that skin were apt to jump to vista and are probably more excited about tooling around and learning its ins and outs rather than skinning at the moment, people will eventually get tired of the stock interface and yes skinning will pick up again.. i see it being bigger then ever in about 18 months time..

What i would like to suggest is a Work In Progress area in the Forums, so that skinners can get feedback on their concepts as they come up with them... Neowin used to be thriving with WIP skins and its all but dead over there now... Im sure most skinners are more motivated to continue along the path of making completed skins if people are excited about an initial idea or concept, it really drives you to keep on going when your recieveing encouragement.

for my part i propose an official WC WIP section for each skinnable Item, WB, DX, etc. im absolutely positive there can be no downside to it.

...and for those of you complining that Brad said if you dont like it..start skinning.. try it sometime... its a time consuming brain intensive frustrting process that few have the intestinal fortitude to continue with. it IS man hours.. so if your not willing to pay for skins, or make them yourself you have no right complaining about not enough free content.

I will skin till I die, no lack of desire or effort at this time for me !


START SKINNING !!
Reply #27 Top
I have wanted to learn skinstudio, however each time I have gone into the program it is very overwhelming.



Speedy, I felt that way for a LOOONNNNG time too. One day I just sat down and really dug in to it. I'm no expert at it by any means. It is a large and intimidating task to do a blind. I've only done 3 blinds and I don't think my pores have yet closed from the sweat sessions that were invoked by them.
Reply #28 Top
Give US a Tutorial for skinstudio that doesn't take rocket scientist to figure out and basics to advanced training and then you may just have more skinners!!


I dunno about that, i basically opened skinstudio seriously for the first time the day the GUIC was announced and came in third overall.. I think its boils down to the amount of time, trial and error, sacrifice and dedication you are willing to put forth.

Its not easy skinning an entire OS, it never will be, you have to give in to the fact that its a difficult process and dedicate youself to making it through without giving up.. sooner or later it will get easier..i assure you.
Reply #29 Top

There is already a section here for that. The "Graphics" gallery. It's gone a tad wild lately but I believe that was the original intent of that section.

Yep...

It's curious how many people have translated 'skinning' to mean 'Windowblinds and Skinstudio'.

Sure, WB is a pivotal/important part of skinning...but it's not the be all and end all of it....

Will Vista add to/revive interest in skinning?  Possibly, depending on what the likes of Stardock can 'do' for the new OS.

Will there be a massive influx of new skinners?  Probably not, but just the steady transition [coming and going] of skinners much the same as has been since day one.  Something that people should take onboard is the reality that after 7, 8 or 9 years of skinning, people have all sorts of reasons to simply 'move on', and not necessarily OUT of skinning entirely...but maybe just different areas.

Several are now commercial [including for Stardock] which concentrates their time/effort more away from public freebie skins.  Others moved into different skinning 'fields' [Crumbut into car game skinning, for example].  Others lost 'direction' with the abandonment of lesser apps' development.

Skinning itself has become more complex...WB5 vs WB1 ....WA5 vs WA2 [two examples].

More people LIKE the skins simply because they actually skin more and look more polished....but that polish/complexity is beyond many skinners who then lose that interest/incentive.

Now, payment for skins/skinning is where things really HAVE TO GO.  No, not necessarily all/everyone, but something that all/everyone can ultimately strive towards....aka an incentive scheme....to artificially inflate enthusiasm and promote skinners/skinning as a legitimate and viable craft.

Years ago I got all eager and 'moist' about the concept of skinning as it was a real and new art medium though people like Picasso were already dead prior to it's evolution.  treetog, Dangeruss, [and the usual suspects] were the new masters of this new art.  We [the old-timers] were at the birth of creation/the industry....and could steer it in all sorts of directions.

Some [eg Customize.org] decreed skinning MUST be free....something that was nonsensical from a viewpoint of Stardock and their commercial involvement in the industry..and something proved just plain silly by the likes of Pixtudio and The Skins Factory.

Commercialism in the field of skinning is neither evil nor negative....it's actually a coming-of-age for the craft.

With the added complexity of skinning in general will come impressions of 'mystery' and 'awe' from the non-skinner and a greater acceptance of "shit that's good...and worth buying - cos I have no flipping idea how to do it myself".

Skinning's alive and well...and within the prolonged uptake of Vista over XP [that'll be years and years] there'll be more interest if for nothing more than because there's now 2 OS's to skin for...

Now....I signed the NDA...so can someone tell me exactly how sexy the next 'big thing' in skinning really will be?.....

 

Reply #30 Top
There is already a section here for that. The "Graphics" gallery. It's gone a tad wild lately but I believe that was the original intent of that section.

Ok, I didn't know that. In which case, may I suggest that in the upcoming update to WC that this section might be presented in a more apparent manner? A link to a gallery section labeled "Graphics" doesn't really describe the intent of such a section I proposed, does it? And as vStyler said, maybe a section in the forums dedicated for "in progress" creations. I think we need new tools to help the creating force going in a rapidly increasing community for this niche which now is becoming mainstream. The bigger the pit it the easier it is to get lost. Ever remember the days at deviantart.com before I become this giant of giants as it is today?
Reply #31 Top
Very well done Jafo I do believe you just closed this thread I stayed away from making WB skin also because of SkinStudio when I tried working on it I would get really frustrated with it. Then just like a few commenters to this thread I dove into it. I started (WB4) by just creating a skin (stock one) and I started by making each image one by one and seeing what does what and that's how I started picking things up. I still don't fully understand everything but each skin I make I learn new things. Oh my first wb skin took about 4 months to create now it doesn't take as long unless I start a new skin from scratch so stay with it and you will be able to figure things out. In the mean time if I can help I will just email me. Make sure you put SkinStudio tut or something that will help me not to send it to my spam folder and then deleted. I will keep on skinning no mater what I am in the position where I can do it, plus for me it's still fun.
Reply #32 Top

Guys:

Skinning is a world way beyond WindowBlinds. It's not just about WindowBlinds. It's not mainly about WindowBlinds.

It's about skinning as a whole. Everything from Winamp to Sysmetrix to you name it. It's slowed down across every site across every program.

As I said, i think the main issue is that when the base OS is out for 5 years without any real updates, it loses its sense of magic and wonder. Everything starts to get a sense of "it's been done".

I do think Vista will help. But we also need to do things to encourage new skinners (in better tools) and do things that foster skinning as a community.

Reply #33 Top

Unfortunately, Brad, you're wrong on many accounts when it comes to skinning Windows Vista, it is possible, and there has been a sort of skinning revolution within the past few days. Way back when Windows XP first came out, we had an individual or individuals who created a uxtheme.dll hack which would allow third party themes. Then there was a pause as people tinkered and toiled with the themeing engine untill there was a breakthrough and the floodgates opened. With Windows Vista, the floodgates opened, and now more people are starting to skin Windows Vista, because you have DWM there, and its a challenge to work with.

Right now I know about seven people, including myself, who are developing skins for Windows Vista using the .msstyle system. Don't get me wrong though, my support for Windowblinds 5.X is still there for me, I'm updating my theme for that one to coincide with the Windows Vista theme. Things will be getting more and more interesting within the next several months.

I am quite familiar with what's happening in Vista "skinning".  Replacing the Start button isn't skinning. Not by a long shot. And it's not just about replacing uxtheme.dll anymore. Now it's replacing multiple DLLs.

Do you know why XP was so easily skinned with msstyles? Because Microsoft documented the entire format and TGT Soft made an editor for it. The Vista msstyles format isn't documented and the controls are hard coded (how many skins with the title bar buttons stuck at hugging the top right edge can one make?).

The msstyles engine on Vista is far FAR more limited than it was on XP and it was, in the minds of many skinners, barely adequate on Vista.  At least on XP, the title bar buttons weren't that limited. On Vista, to edge hugging buttons will be very limiting.

Reply #34 Top

My thoughts.. It could turn in to a double edged sword.
A periodic premium skin is one thing. A consistent upswing in no-free content will naturally cause a downswing of QUALITY free content. I think that a larger portion of people are not going to go for that at all, thus your comment of "start skinning" takes on a bigger responsibility. You said it yourself that the amount of skinners has declined, but user count it up. That should tell you something.
Think what you wish, but without the amount of quality free skins that have been hosted here over the years, Windowblinds would have never been a success. Each relies on the other to ensure continued success. Face it, there is no other site out there that offers the variety of free QUALITY skins that WC does. I for one would not offer this new service here. It could be your ultimate demise.

I definitely don't advocate that skins shouldn't be free.

I am just pointing out reality: IF there is demand for a thing (any thing) that demand will be met.

In the case of skinning, as long as the labor does not exceed the threshold of most people to do something that can be accomplished as a hobby or for fun, you can end up with "free" content.

Stardock is commited this coming year to releasing tools that vastly decrease the amount of effort to make cool stuff.

But time isn't really the issue. It's the # of people willing to invest even minor amounts of time.

WindowBlinds skins TODAY only require a lot of time to do because the threshold to create something new is so high. But with Windows Vista, there will be plenty of demand for skins that are basically like Aero but tweaked in various ways.  And SkinStudio 5.5 will allow people to start with Aero as their basic skin (for Vista) and then just modify what they want. 

The problem has been that Windows XP was out so long that people got tired of it. Therefore, the demand for things that looked significantly different than XP grew. And the more different from XP, the more labor was involved (since in SkinStudio, you can, after all, just start with Windows XP and change what you want,s ave it and call it a day -- but in 2006, that's no longer acceptable).

It's a multi-step process:

  1. A new OS encourages tinkerers to tinker with it.
  2. Some of those tinkerers create software
  3. Some of that software is skinnable
  4. Some people make skins for it

Why has Winamp and Konfabulator and Sysmetrix and Media Player and on and on all declined? Because it's not fresh and new anymore. We need new stuff to get us excited again. That's what I hope Vista will do. 

In a vista world where we're making animated wallpapers and high resolution boot screens and vector-based gadgets and 3D models that do things on the desktop and new GUI skins for the OS and new logon screens for a new OS, and new software I can't talk about yet, then you'll see a definite increase in skinners.

 

Reply #35 Top
Introducing vector capabilities to skinning will be very interesting. I've been hoping for that for a few years now. I think you might be right Brad, that we all need new toys. I think the biggest thing Vista had brought to skinning is it's improved 3D capabilities and hardware acceleration. I'm really looking forward to seeing applications that utilizes this.
But the software doesn't have to be revolutionary in what they present to the end user. Look at Xion the musicplayer. http://xion.r2.com.au/ The guy created a skinformat that allowed the skinners to create everything within a PDS file. That created a little sparkle here when it where presented.
Reply #36 Top
Agree with you totally with regards to Xion.
Reply #37 Top
In a vista world where we're making animated wallpapers and high resolution boot screens and vector-based gadgets and 3D models that do things on the desktop


I have been working on the animated wall concept for a while now, though not ready for prime time, and look forward to your developments. There will be new magic in the skinning world when we can catch up with the power of the new graphic hardware and capabilities. 3D or 2D stills are not where the future lies, it lies in movement. IMHO.
Reply #38 Top
Let me say one thing: this is a hot topic. No, really, I see the truth as being that money is double edged sword: it can motivate, but it can also stifle. I really appreciate the work that has been poured into skinning by countless people. There is a thrill tinkering around with what others don't want you to. It's our nature. New and novel is also exciting. Frogboy makes these points well. Charging for skins can stifle interest in users; however, those who really want high quality stuff generally find a way to pay for it- or swap it. Interestingly, I have not seen any premium content on P2P sites (that's a good thing-no?). Offering prize money and contracts will work if the prize is great enough. But also people like notoriety. So make them famous in some way--that really motivates. And about Frogboy's comment about blokes learning to skin....inappropriate or not, I think those who really like to tweak should learn....or pay others to keep doing it for them! That's what I do. I have my hands full with my own business and this bloody PC. (ONE day I'll get me a MAC )

All in all, I think you gents are the mum's pums! Keep up the great work.
Reply #39 Top
I started to skin in November of 1999 and before making my first suite of skins for sale, in October of 2001 I realeased over 300 skins for more then 45 different applications for free. Even after I started to work as a professional graphic designer I realesed another 150+ free skins. Today I continue my carrier on a full time skinning job and every time that I open Photoshop to start a new skin I feel the same fun that I use to fell 7 years ago. So, WOM, since you mentioned my name, I am sorry, on my case you are wrong, I simply love to skin, because I have fun at every minute of my work. Also, I still reply to all emails that users, newbies, skinners, etc... write me every day in the same way I used to do 7 years ago.
Reply #40 Top
I would liken the situation to the early days of computer game writing. Back in the 80's, any enthusiastic (and talented) person could spend just a few weeks or months on a game and could release it to possible world aclaim. Now, it takes a team of many programers, graphic artists, musicians etc to produce a game that will actually impress people enough to shift boxes off shelves in any great number.

...but, that doesn't mean that free little games don't exist any more and can sometimes be the most innovative and rewarding. Also sometimes quite substantial projects can come together from collaborative exercises - which is something skinning might benefit more from.

Personnaly, I spent a lot of my free time a few years ago creating just a few WB skins (and other odds and ends). Only 1 of those WB skin do I still use every single day (and I use a computer for approx 8 hours day) and ironically its the one I never 'finished' enough to actually upload for a previous GUI olympics. Personnaly I'm happy enough with it as it is, but it's not 'complete' in terms of a fully modern skin and doesn't make use of the latest greatest features and so would probably generate little or no interest. The point is that it is lack of time and not lack of financial reward that is likely to prevent me ever improving this skin any further. For example, I would just LOVE the time to create some of the more fantastical alpha blended skin ideas I had before you could apply alpha blending! So many ideas I had just couldn't be done without alpha blending, and now it's possible with WB I no longer have any spare time. Bah humbug.

For "hobby skinners" like myself, the increasing complexity of producing a fully polished skin is a case of dimminishing returns. Probably 95% of a skin design can be completed quite easily, but getting that last 5% completed with all the little wrinkles and niggles ironed out so that everyone would be happy with it just isn't worth the effort, and I'm not prepared to pu anything shabby in the public domain.

Now, what would interest me is if someone with the time and experience would accept part completed skins and polish them up for them to then sell - even if I didn't get anything from it, I'd be happy to see something I had created 'out there'. In my view that would mirror the initial point made that the "un-fun lots of effort" would be chargable work where as the fun creative part I would happily donate for free.

Controversial? I know a number of artists that would balk at the idea of other people giving away their own 'art' for no reward as it could undermine their income, but IMHO, being an artist 'for fun' is easy and so I would feel awkward acepting money for it - but producing reliably good creative products on demand is hard and artists deserve any reward they can get in those cases.

The other idea may be for people to create more partial skins. WB already starts to support this with the separate Icons and animations etc, but imagine that taken further with the parts idea that is already in Skin Studio so that creating a skin would be like a trip to a hardware store. "I'll have those buttons, with those icons inset in them with the shade of green from that title bar. Add the animation on the buttons from there, the glow effect from here, sort it all out with a nice consistent colour scheme, tidy up all the different alpha blend or not varitions automatically...."

Reply #41 Top
Wb skins today are very time consuming, I remember about an old skin of mine, "Unlighted", done back in 2001 I guess, I started the scretch at noon and at 8 PM it was uploaded here. Today I spend 2 days just for making toolbar icons and avi animations, for a complete skin, not less then 80 hours and I consider myself as a fast skinner. What is over 10 times more then it used to be.
Reply #43 Top
Believe me, Vista will be skinned. I know I cannot wait for a skinning application to be released!
Reply #44 Top
LightStar : WB 5.5 beta is already out which lets you skin Vista, or were you thinking of something else?
Reply #45 Top
Deja Vu? Permit me to share some thoughts (I seldom do), purely based as a user. If memory doesn't fail, these are the very same comments that came with the advent of XP. Today, people don't look back to that move from Win98! I have been an OD user for years and I must say that I have used very few skins. What makes me keep using a skin again and again is the sheer looks of it: quality, appearance, ease of use, etc... I tend to switch back to favourite skins. I believe its the outstanding quality of some skins out there -after all, one never changes a Rembrandt, Renoir... Be that as it may, improved/updated OSs provides for new challenges, new opportunities for a more effective GUI. That I feel is the aim: a more exciting user-interaction with the PC. To date this has been accomplished. I feel that Vista will follow in the same line. It is evident, by simple observation, that many skins have had many hours invested in them. It would be only fair, that should the artist wish to be remunerated for his/her work, this should be respected. There is also a need for creativity in how this should be done, e.g. there could be a separate annual subscription for the use of skins, in a way skins would be leased to users (you can only use one skin at a time). Pehaps I'm talking a lot of dribble but thanks for the opportunity.
Reply #46 Top
LightStar : WB 5.5 beta is already out which lets you skin Vista, or were you thinking of something else?


I assume he meant SKS for Vista


Seems to me that vista will scare skinners off more than it will attract.. at least from what I have seen so far it looks like Vista is more restrictive and less skinnable. ( for WB\SKS )

Am i wrong?

Whats new to tinker with? I mean I have yet to see anything that makes me want to start skinning it other than im going to be forced to.


Not to mention I'm sure several current XP skinners have systems that even support it.

I would like to see WB given the ability to skin toolbar icons in Vista \ IE7 and also to skin the search \ logoff area. Is that ever going to happen?

i want to be excited about Vista..im just not.

Reply #47 Top
Seems to me that vista will scare skinners off more than it will attract.. at least from what I have seen so far it looks like Vista is more restrictive and less skinnable. ( for WB\SKS )


I havnt liked what I've seen so far...people like vStyler and I skin a bit outside the box and Vista dosnt like it...

He's right...I'm not excited yet about it...I have to learn it.
Reply #48 Top
Same amount of users...more work for the skinner to make two versions.