AAAaaaaaah, Gimme a PM option on the forum. Ok since you asked I'll try and justify the opinion.

(Disclaimer)
I consider myself someone reasonably interested in 4X games. not a lunatic (in a good way! )fan of the genre.
I liked Civ and SMAC but never really tried the less known ones like Star EmpiresIV. I have used some obvious examples in this.

Ok. for sake of arguement let us say that a developer has created an 2D RPG (summat like Baldur's Gate) game.
(I'll use that as an example since I like RPGs and will also give different light on subject.)

Someone who is a fan of the RPG genre will know what others look for. They will know from long experience (Probably on Forums) what sort of things the fans look for (lets say for example, Plot and characterisation) will be looking for.

Now let us say someone who has never played an RPG in his life and is an FPS type. Because of their preference in games their opinions matter less to me because things they view as problems (Lets say, Graphics) are something that fans of the genre has accepted as the standard and do not really care about.

Having said that I do not believe that a review by someone who is not a fan is meaningless, To others who have never played an RPG it could very well be worthwhile. I feel however that a Fan of the genre can cater to other fans and also newbies and cna provide more infomation.

(e.g. The Graphics are pretty good, however fans of other games who are used to cutting edge graphics might feel let down).

whereas an RPG newbie might not be able to empathise with what the fans of that genre want.

Hope I made myself reasonably clear. Not good at communicating ideas (hey, i AM a comp sci student

~SDC~

To post #22 -- Keep in mind Jeff, what was said about the lame combat was a first impression only and was actually only shared through a private email amongst us. He chose to share the original email verbatim in an attempt to show the difference between his initial impressions and his final thoughts. Perhaps he didn't elucidate well enough. Perhaps if you re-read his part you might see what I mean. Granted, so of the other parts are dark but I beleive you misinterpreted this part of his review.


Skinner aka DeadDireWolf

PS - Whomever keeps calling me a fanboy, if praising a deserving well done game categories me a such, I wish I was a fanboy of more titles. Problem is, games this outstanding are unfortunately very, very far and few between.

~SDC~

Jeff Jones said:

"Hope I made myself reasonably clear. Not good at communicating ideas (hey, i AM a comp sci student "

BS, dude. I've read your stuff before and you've always struck me as articulate and one who mostly expresses well thought out opinions. Well, truly Jeff Jones could be a common name but if you're the Jeff Jones from c.s.i.p.g.s then I mean you. Meant as an observation but if you can find a compliment in there then so be it.

I understand your point. Mine is definately based on a different perception though and may well be wrong. Mine is based on the perception that any reviewer worth their salt WILL at least have a basic knowledge of the ENTIRE genre.

I don't like RT strat games for example, but I have played a great deal of them ( have salesmen friends ) and can say that there are certain examples in the field that stand out. The two Kohans, which I bought are indeed games that hooked the turn based fool that is me. I'd have reviewed them well. Ditto for AOE which I didn't buy but played on a friends machine. It wasn't MY game but I'd have been a fool not to notice it's good points and it's SELLING points in it's genre. Admittedly I only recognized the latter due to my reading/education but is that really too much to ask a potential reviewer? You know, a guy who is going to wield that much influence on the buying public? He NEEDS to be informed, not just on his likes but on the entire state of the current gaming community.

This is my type of reviewer and as I've said. I'll listen to this person because I know where they're coming from and I respect where they ultimately end up even if I disagree. Unfortunately this type of reviewer isn't common thus my question about the state of the review scene currently.

Finally:

Hey, I like the discussion here but if you want to take it private my e-mail is [email protected]. I don't think that we'll really ever get antagonistic so that doesn't seem necessary. I'm an old rpg vet too and love those games just as much.



~SDC~

Good point, missed the significance of that when I was reading it.

~SDC~

Google on c.s.i.p.g.s = comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic

If that is the c.s.i.p.g.s you are talknig about then I am afraid I have never been on there.
Hehe sorry Axxon, I must be another Jeff Jones...like you said it is an extremely common name

And yea my basic premise is that the vet is open minded enough to cater for all...but that is assuming
maybe a bit too much of human nature

~SDC~

Well ok, but since you both seem to exhibit good communication skills and the ability to consider other opinions civilly, I tend to think it must be something in the name.

I definately hope you're not Jeffrey Jones who was once my favorite character actor until he was accused of photographing an underage boy in sexually explicit poses. Not that there's anything...oh, the heck with that. There is definately something wrong with that. It's just not right.

On your second point I wholeheartedly agree but given it's my nature to be this way, I must assume that it's at least possible for someone with some writing talent to do likewise. One can hope anyway.



~SDC~

Epic has also done a pretty good job with updating and improve Unreal Tournament 2003. (They did the same with the original UT.) The free bonus pack they released about a week ago is very very cool. Some very cool new gametypes and maps. Not to mention the patches have been steadily making the game better and more polished.

The only thing about Klemeroni's review is that at the end his final thoughts appear to bit a bit cold towards the game, while some of the individual topics appear more warm. It is apparent there is a balance they want to strike with the three reviews, and althought Kle found some good points, overall he was still not incredibly super impressed to put down his moo3 and play. But the idea is there that at least the review isn't completely slamming the game without giving any reasons. It's just a matter of deciding based on his perspective, and besides, seeing three reviews side by side, two relatively positive, one kind of "eh", you can make your own decision.