alot can we learned from supreme commander when it comes to movement, especailly the move in formation option all units move together at the speed of the slowest unit also units firing in formation inflict more damage then ships arriving at random in sup com you can also select diferent shapes of formations too,

i used to play the old homeworld too, this was a feature also formations are very important for protecting ships like carriers

(i hope carriers can have a few more units of fighters, i know there heavy fighters but most carriers have 70-100 fighters i dont expect that much but when you enter an enemy system there can be 20-25 separate units so your up against up 100 fighters while your carrier might only have 15-20 in game at the moment,)

also id have to say my favourite part of the game is the phase jump it is just like when the new battlestar galactica jumps, the sound it makes is fantastic!!

I totally agree with major stresse's points.

Diplomacy AI needs improvement. I went from good trade with two allies while beating and enemy to death to being on the reciving end of an attack from each enemy in different systems the size of my entire armada combined.

I think they didnt put all the AI power with the beta yet.

oh! I think these sliders would be great to have as option before you start a game:

Gamespeed
Economy efficiency
research efficiency
phase jump travel time


also I would rather see the larger ships (humans especially) to be more as "oldtime ships", where you turn around to give your enemy a broadside with your side mounted turrets.

impressions of the beta played @ 1920x1200 resolution.

1. difficult to locate opposing forces when zoomed out. had to rely on the left unit bar to target enemy ships. it would be good if the enemy icons were larger or scaled appropriately at different zooms.

2. when new units or structures are completed, i am usually alerted by the audio feedback from the game. sometimes i noticed the 'completion text'. but it would be nice if the icons for the units flash in the unit maps, or if it is a planetary upgrade to flash that planet's icon. if it is a tech upgrade, perhaps flash the tech icon in the GUI.

3. i think the ability to 'grab' the map might come in handier? i'm sure this has been explored or suggested before, but perhaps 'grabbing' the map might be a possible feature or tweak?

4. at high resolutions i had trouble seeing the shield & armor levels of my ships. perhaps a scaling option to make it easier to view at a glace the situation of a fleet during an engagement.

5. the info box on the lower right. would placing the shield, armor and energy information more prominently improve the gameplay? sometimes i had difficulty finding the information as the info box had alot of other stuff that was useful, but aren't as critical as those 3 info (IMHO, esp during combat).

6. AI issue. I had several skirmishes of attrition with one of the AI. Later I had to flee a battle and soon after that same AI offered a peace treaty. Immediately after I agreed to the peace treaty, the same AI offered a trade pact. I'm not sure if that was how they did diplomacy in the future but oh well....

7. Would be nice to have some camera shakes when warping through hyper-space. also camera shakes during capital ship explosions or firing of flak cannons.

8. more coverage of the game's camera movement should be covered during the tutorial. IMHO it wasn't sufficient as Sins' cam movements aren't that intuitive from the get-go. there is a slight learning curve. i personally would have preferred a more user friendly cam control.

9.on large resolutions, moving the mouse cursor from the bottom GUI to the top of the GUI (eg: from frigate hanger to researching tech menu) might not be that immediate. granted i can access the research menu immediately through the use of hot-keys. I am not sure if the devs have ever tested putting the near majority of the UI buttons on the same GUI bar. or perhaps leave the statistics at the top of the GUI and the button menus at the bottom of the GUI? just some thoughts thats all.

thanks for the opportunity to test and give feedback.

With the help of some posters here I found the group phase jumping button (right click to toggle the move button). However on several occasions the group I ordered to jump together moved to the edge of the gravity well...and sat there for ten minutes until I gave up and changed the movement order back to the default setting.

There were no other units in system they could have been waiting for. What I think might have happened was that not all the units in the group had the group phase jump option selected. So they jumped immediately and the other units waited at the edge of the system for the already jumped units to join them.

I like the phase space lanes. Adding an option for short ranged non-phase space jumps sounds viable but please keep the phase space lanes. I know you contemplated earlier having planets orbit, perhaps having a beta version where we can see the planets orbit and either learn to hate or love it?

Oh and I saw the AI use scout frigates to ignore my inhibitors and attack the vulnerable rear of my systems (where I usually stash the inhibitors and the shield generators). Looking forward to seeing that option mentioned earlier to prevent this. For now I just add a gauss turret at the rear and that usually sees them off.

To repeat and summarize:
Larger gravity wells!
Different sized planets with different sized gravity wells!
Options for faster or slower research and phase jumps.
Options for higher or lower maintenance costs.
A chance to see orbiting planets! (Or at least leave the code there so when its released we can mod it in anyway.)
More fighters/bombers. (Perhaps not so strong)
Option to share research with allies.

A change in the menu:

It would be a lot easier to change the number of planets with a slider instead of a button.

Figured I should post my issue with Trade ship weirdness here.

Forgot to add in my post that an "espionage" function would do wonders.

ditto, my mouse clicking finger needs to rest too...

Cheers Blair. Und now... more!

-Autocannon shot spray sometimes doesnt seem to reach the target. (Kol?) This might just indicate a miss, but it looks weird.

-Fighter autocannons are ridiculously difficult to see. (1024x768, high qual.)

-Phase jumping a Sova Carrier to another system will trigger the use of Embargo and Missile Battery for whatever reason.

-If you had the option to enable icons for individual fighters rather than squads, that would be nice. Fighters help add motion to a battle, but you barely know they're there sometimes in the current version.

-Similarly, options to make missiles more visible throgh high-quality trails of some kind would be nice.

-For some reason, a bomb-capable ship will sometimes lose its move order when jumping to an uncolonized system. Specifically, this happened when my flagship and a bunch of frigates were ordered to jump to an empty terran planet that had been scouted by my allies but not me. There were pirates there but no colony. The flagship was tardy getting out of the gravity well, and some frigates arrived at the planet before the flagship started phasing. The flagship then lost its move order.

-Phase Jump Status should always be All Grouped or None Grouped. I don't see any value to Some Grouped, and I'm constantly forgetting about it and messing up my formation jumps.

-When coming out of a jump into an enemy system, bombers/fighters have a tendency to cluster so much that it looks like an entire squadron is only one or two fighters. I noticed this in particular with the Kol.

-I find the way in which research describes its benefits confusing.
When placed on Defend Local Area rather than Defend Gravity Well, ships will often attempt to 'return to their positions' in entirely different gravity wells... by sublight.

-Add checkboxes for Sound and Music on/off.

Wow guys! There are so many great ideas and valid concerns we can't possibly address them all right now, especially when we have to focus on technical issues at the moment. Please don't feel we are ignoring you if one of us doesn't respond to them. We are reading everything diligently and creating a massive suggestion list and assigning priorities to everything. Your comments will all get the attention they deserve.

I still think its valid to point out that many of the requests are pieces of the Sins puzzle that just didn't make it into the beta and a number of them are issues that are in the game that have been missed (which means we probably have to include more tutorials and make things more easily accessible). With regards to these two comments, I am extremely happy to see that some of the more veteran Sins forum members have taken on answering a number of the questions and giving out pointers.

Once again, thx for helping us perfect Sins!

FWIW, I don't like the idea of having repair ships, because it makes it too quick and easy to repair capital ships. The capitals should have to lumber their way to repair docks...and while I'm on that subject, I think they should actually have to dock with the station, and thus there should be a limit on how many can repair at once (there may already be; I've only ever done one at a time). As far as getting rid of the construction ships, I'm an agnostic. They do get in the way when it comes to the Empire Box, though. Maybe you could put them in the structures section instead. Lastly, don't you dare turn this game into some kind of Homeworld 3, as some seem to be suggesting. There are those of us who bought it *because* it isn't Homeworld (not that Homeworld's a bad game; it's just been done).

Sorry I'm making separate posts instead of putting everything into one big one, but for some reason my Enter button isn't working in the editor, so I can't separate paragraphs. Anyway, I'm growing accustomed to playing the game from the Empire Box now, but it's still a little cumbersome. I think it would be nice if you would add an option to overlay the ship icons with the letters "C," "Fr," "Fi," and "B" to indicate each ship's general class (while retaining the "+" where appropriate to indicate upgradeability). Maybe you could do something similar with the structures as well, but that might be more trouble than it's worth. Also, since double-clicking an icon already selects and centers the camera on the unit, it would be helpful to make the game conform to the accepted Windows standard of list selection: Ctl-click to select multiple units out of the list, and Shift-click to select a range of units by clicking on the first and last.

Clicking on an aleady-selected planet in the universe view ought to scroll to that planet's position in the Empire Box and open and expand its details (as well as centering the planet in the universe view). Clicking it again ought to close the details.

I'd like to have hotkeys to filter a selection by ship class. For example, I could select my entire fleet (by whatever means), then press a key to cut that selection down to just the bombers, or just the capital ships, etc. Making it easy to issue orders by class. Or alternately, just have the key select all ships of X class at the current planet.

What kryo said. I've been thinking, I'd like to be able to access a list of my ships so I can instantly see what I have available and where they are. Such a list could be refined to do what kryo is asking for and that would help me, too. I just had one system getting waled on by tons of enemy ships and I needed some of my capitals to help defend. I wasted lots of precious time searching through my planet lists looking for ships to aid in the battle. (I guess to be complete, a similar list of structures ought to be available as well--for seeing where expenses can be cut, where a necessary structure has been overlooked at a planet, etc.)

Orbiting planets could get tricky, you homeworld could go from being safe in your lines to the centre of the enemy quickly.

Maybe Gravity well sizes should change along with planet side, as in Terran Planets are bigger then an asteroid planets.

I also think that the Phase inhibitors should be toggled on/off like Interdictors in EAW.

Hi Jamatang, my suggestion about orbiting planets around their stars was about forcing Phase Lanes to shift around. This way, backwater planets might suddenly become key positions in the Phase Lane system, and vice versa. The point of this would be to limit the possibility of multiplayer stalemates. Granted, I admit that this particular solution is a bit complex and nobody wants to be the player who gets screwed because of it.

I explored this idea because I am worried that SoaSE multiplayer strategy might become heavily dependent on fortifying key planets that have multiple Phase Lane links. If Phase Lane defense becomes stronger than any potential offense, we will see mutiplayer battles becoming stalemates. Games like the Space Empires series is really bad for having frustrating stalemates, and I would like to see SoaSE avoid this fate.

Here are some other ways of getting by system fortifications without resorting to orbiting planets and shifting Phase Lanes. Tell me which would you prefer to see implemented.

Option #1. Research/ships that can create new Phase Lanes (either permanent or temporary). Just keep in mind that you will likely need some kind of Astronomy Research option. How else would you be able to target isolated planets for new Phase Lane links if you don't know they are there?

Option #2. Getting rid of the Phase Lane concept all together. Once again you would need Astronomy Research or allied info to allow you to see possible destinations. I personally think this would be the best option.

I really don't like the beta's Phase Highway system. There should be no artificially forced space highways in the game. Okay, I've said it. My friends and I were really hoping that this game would use a movement system more like MOO or Rebellion for traveling between gravity wells.

The Phase Highway concept has been bugging me since I've started playing the beta. I've been quiet about it till now because the beta has a lot of potential in other areas. But if we don't say anything now about the Phase Highways, they will be guaranteed to be included in the final release.

Also, the developers really want to hear what we want. They don't want us to say "yeah, the beta is great" but then we don't buy the final release because we don't like it.

Games like Space Empires and Empires at War have their own versions of Phase Highways. The problem is that they kind of suck because of it. The concept of Phase Highways has been done to death in past games. Modders especially complain about them (check out the modding posts in the Space Empire Forums), because forcing players to use space highways mean that they can't make proper mods for Star Wars, Star Trek, Babylon 5, Battlestar Galactica, and so on.

In fact, the Phase Highway concept is used because game designers think that players need short term goals in order not to get bored/discouraged. They also think that the average player's intelligence can't handle too many choices at once. They really should acknowledgment that SciFi gamers are smarter than other gamers and that we would welcome more choice and potential.

Let's briefly examine how the game could work without using any Phase Highways and instead allowed ships to travel wherever they wanted to go. Of course, Phase Space itself should still be the means of traveling between gravity wells as it is a good game concept.


To see possible destination gravity wells in your home star system, Astronomy could become a researchable technology. The higher the level you have in Astronomy, the further your planets/asteroids/ships can see possible gravity well destinations.

Allies should share gravity well destination points. Hmmm, maybe you could even sell/buy gravity well destination points in the trade menu.

Stars should probably always be valid destination points regardless of your Astronomy Tech level, since they are so easy to see. Hmmm, you might make it so you have to jump to another star before you can initially see any of the planets in its orbit.

Some people might worry that defensive strategies without Phase Lanes would become impossible. This isn't the case. With sensors (and audio warnings), you can be warned of incoming enemy fleets as the beta already does. Allow the defending player to see the destination point of the incoming fleet. If they are trying to reach your inner planets by bypassing your outer worlds, you'll be able to send a suitable intercepting fleet to the contested system. Your fleet is going to be closer and so will arrive first.

If people have trouble dealing with multiple incoming fleets...well, they should have trouble sending interception fleets to deal with multiple attacking empires at once. Still, SoaSE has a good AI, and your ships can handle themselves while you are focusing elsewhere. So handling multiple incoming attackers at once won't be as fatal for you as it would be in other lesser games.

I suppose that Phase Space travel speed could be slowed down a bit if players find they have trouble organizing multiple defense and attack fleets. You might even allow a research tech that messes with Phase Space and slows travel through it. Or your ships might be allowed to travel a bit faster when traveling in Phase space inside your empire's borders (they would have a better grasp of local phase space conditions).


Please remove Phase Space Highways. Posters who've read this and agree with me, now is the time for you to speak up. They might be able to make a serious change like this now, but they won't be able to do it when the game nears release.

Hmmm, I should probably make a whole new forum post about this topic so we can see how many gamers feel the same way as I do. I suspect a lot of the posters right now are naturally more willing to praise than criticize...which speaks well for them.

I'm definitely positive about a change in the phase space travel system in Beta 1. It's not that I hate the phase lane system, but I think I would enjoy having more freedom about where to go.

It would be possible to keep the phase lanes though, as they could provide more efficient travel between planets, making it preferable (but not necessary) to have your empire connected by the lanes. Or maybe it could be possible to build structures connecting nearby systems (both in your control) that set up a phase lane, thus allowing for slightly more efficient travel within your empire. This would help getting intercepting fleets where they need to be.

Perhaps a separate post would be best for this as you (Paradoxnt) said? It would be nice to see what others think.

Personally I don't play multiplayer games, but this certainly seems like it would add some dynamics to multiplayer.

Thanks DRavisher

I don't know if this is been covered, and I haven't bothered to read this thread but:
looking at multi's gameplay video, I dont like how the enemy can hopscotch through your territory without much of an issue, it leaves you're perimeter planet defenses pointless and your internal planets at risk.
I think at least the enemy should be forced to detour through the gravity well of planets rather than just hop on them.

Did anyone else think some of the completed research icons looking similar to the non-researched icons?

At a glance sometimes I can't make out if I researched an item. I had to hover the mouse over the research icon to read the text description. eg: refined lasers. Some of these icons have grey or dark backgrounds and thus can be mistaken that the research node has not been researched.

Another point might be that unresearched icons be greyed, semi-complete research to be partially colored (or have a small colored box in the icon to indicate the intermediate research level of that research node, and lastly a fully colored (and / or colored box in the icon).

To resolve the 'i can't find the enemy' problem of zoomed out combat, perhaps show 'tactical' icons of the ships (ala Supreme Commander zoomed out mode). It need not be detailed, but sufficient to differentiate that the unit is either a frigate, a capital ship, a defensive or support structure etc. so when we see it on the larger inter-system zooms, at least we can have a rough gauge on the units present in a system.

I would like the fighters and bombers die more spectacular (spelling?)
check this trailer, it looks pretty cool how their fighters dies.