Thank you Ch0Arrim. I believe that one day many games of every genre will use much more interesting damage models than the current model of hitpoints, and that given current processing power it's about time we harnessed the power of computers to have units and characters hurt in various interesting ways. IL-2 is a wonderful example if you want to see it done well in an air combat game.
Anyway, last night I went on about some combat features I'd like to see implemented. Today I'll address the main points in the original post.
By now some of you have probably realize just how much power you have in the beta process. That this isn't some late stage marketing excercise. We (you guys and us) are helping make a game together.
And this makes you all kinds of awesome. I don't care if your next game is 'Attack of the Pink Fluffy Kitties', I'm so in.
ASSUMPTION #1: Swarming is bad, combined arms is good.
In my opinion, we need more ships in the game. I also think that the FLEET should be the key building block of your strategy. That is, the player who utilizes "combined arms" with their fleets should be able to do vastly better than the player who is just swarming.
Agreed, to the point where in another post I've asked for the tools to customize entire fleets and queue up every ship involved in the local manufacturing facilities with just a few clicks of the mouse. Having prepared fleets in advance of a game will definitely bring a lot of characterization to a given player's combat tactics.
There's a key to making combined arms better than swarms of a single unit, however: Specialization. Each unit has a specific function and a job to do in combat, and when it comes to other jobs it tends to fall short. Some units can perform a mix of duties, but such units tend to be more expensive.
Take the dizzying array of World War II German vehicles as an example. You had halftracks, which could usually carry infantry but were sometimes mounted with various large weapons, each of which would reduce their infantry carrying capacity. You had main battle tanks (Such as the Panther), which were some of the best in the world, and could perform a variety of jobs - they were great against other tanks, and decent at taking on enemy infantry, and best of all, they were incredibly tough and survivable in the field. Then you had a mind-boggling array of Tank Destroyers (like the Nashorn), some of which were good anti-tank guns with paper-thin armor and no anti-infantry capability, and some that resembled main battle tanks without turrets (The Hetzer), and you had self-propelled guns (The STuG!), which were exceptional at dealing with enemy infantry but often lacking when it came to taking on enemy armor. Lastly, you had special units like the Wirbelwind, an anti-aircraft platform that could also do some damage to infantry, but was nearly useless against enemy armor.
The most versatile platforms, the main battle tanks, were also the most expensive to produce. The Germans were able to produce vehicles like the STuG in far greater numbers due to the fact that they were cheap to manufacture, despite being more specialized than a main battle tank.
This model of unit specialization applies to almost every era of warfare. There are very few notable exceptions where swarm tactics have proven superior, and armies have beaten others using only one type of unit. The only one I can think of now is the mongol hordes, where every warrior was basically a mounted archer who could also fight in a melee.
ASSUMPTION #2: Fleets should work together as a single combined arms fighting force
In most RTSs I play, I select several units, hit Ctrl-# and the units are grouped. I then right-click wherever and they scatter. If I hold down the right keys, I can get them to move as a single force.
I think in Sins, it should be the opposite. A fleet should move together as a single formation by default. I should be able to put together the right mixture of ships to counter my opponent's strategy and be able to right click on the other fleet and let them fight it out while I go work on another battle elsewhere if I want (sure, I *can* micro manage the battle but I shouldn't get much, if any, advantage to doing it IMO).
You guys already have a good thing going with that sidebar that lets you control your forces. Individual fleets that are built should get their own group on that sidebar - indeed, they should be the primary groups on there. A 'Fleet' should be regarded as working like an individual combined arms unit - just as in Total War each unit is a group of men, and each Army is a group of these men. Only this time, we get to customize our fleets, so while every player has the same mix of units, their fleets may be vastly different.
Also, the more stuff that can be automated, the better. When I build a carrier, it should automatically start building it's compliment of fighters and bombers. When I customize my fleet, carriers should either have a default payload of fighters and bombers, or I can tell it exactly what I want to build (maybe I want an all-bomber carrier force for quick raids on enemy territory - warp in, strike with bombers, warp out before retaliated against). If those bombers are destroyed, the carrier should automatically rebuild the destroyed units.
Even more important (but difficult to implement) with the automation system is battle doctrine. What targets should your ships engage first? In general, if encountering a swarm of one type of unit, a combined arms fleet will have some ships able to take on the threat, some ships that are exteremely vulnerable to the threat, and some ships (perhapse those of the same type) that would more or less result in a draw. The optimal tactics for engaging a swarm of enemy ships would be to have my fleet attack their swarm by sending the ships best suited to killing them with minimal losses, and have the rest of the fleet avoid the battle. A simple example is carriers against battleships - the carriers can deploy bombers to hit the battleships, and the battleships can't do much to hit back at the bombers... but if the battleships get in range of the carriers, kiss the carriers goodbye. Carriers should almost always have a battle doctrine of keeping their distance from their enemy.
When you attack an enemy combined arms fleet, the rules change. Now you have two mixes of units with varying effectiveness going after each other. By default, each unit should attack their specialized targets if they are available - flak frigates should hit bombers and fighters, battleships should hit other capital ships and frigates, and so forth. But sometimes there's a variety of targets to be had - a bomber can be effective against just about any ship much larger than itself. So when I attack, maybe there are some tactical options for my attack, such as 'general' (focus on units you're good at killing), or specific, (Attack anti-fighter assets, attack battleships, attack support ships, attack anti-planet ships), for when you want to damage an enemy fleet's capability to respond to a type of attack. At Midway and in the Coral Sea, the main targets for both sides were the carriers, since those were recognized as the primary threat the enemy had to each other.
ASSUMPTION #3: The fleet mechanics should be logical and require no explaining
This means we have to work with things that are obvious on screen when it comes to ships. So what can differentiate different ships:
- How fast they move. A battleship might pack a powerful punch but move and turn very slowly for instance.
- Rate of fire. Some ships might shoot lots of wimpy but constant shots. Others might shoot less often but more devastating shots.
- Range. Some ships might have long range shot capability while others can only shoot short-range.
- Accuracy. How often the ship hits its target can be based on the accuracy of the ship.
Based on thes 4 simple game mechanics, one can imagine how one could put together various kinds of ships that counter someone else's fleet.
For example, you could have a Targeting Frigate which improves the accuracy of ships in a given fleet (as long as it's relatively close). You could have a ECM Frigate which decreases the accuracy of ships in a given fleet. Ships that have a long range may be more depenedent on accuracy than shorter range (for obvious reasons).
Speed and Range are important, as is Accuracy, but Rate of Fire currently doesn't make much of a difference unless ships have some sort of armor or shield that can stop a certain amount of incoming damage - which is a good thing.
Basically, I can fire a machinegun at a battleship (or a tank for that matter) all day long and not kill it. The armor is simply too thick for a machinegun bullet to do any damage. I need an anti-tank weapon or a cruise missile to hurt those targets. If battleships in Sins have armor, then there's a bit of specialization there - a swarm of fighters won't be able to hurt battleships because of their armor, but the battleships also won't be hurting the fighters much due to their low accuracy and low rate of fire.
A battleship in Sins should be the toughest thing with the biggest weapons in space. High armor, long range, high damage, low accuracy, low speed, and low rate of fire.
Only high-damage weapons will inflict actual damage against these monsters, such as the guns on the Kodiak frigate, bombs from the bombers, or the larger weapons on other capital ships. On the other hand, if you can't kill a battleship, you can always outrun them with anything else, and a carrier can hit them indefinitely with distant squadrons of bombers. But sometimes the enemy will force a confrontation - when his battleships arrive to attack one of your colonies, you need to take him on or lose the colony.
Compare that to, say, a cruiser - medium armor, medium range, moderate damage, moderate accuracy, fast speed, low rate of fire. A fleet of cruisers could concievably take on battleships if there are enough of them - but what the cruisers can do that the battleships cannot is chase down an fleeing enemy fleet with their superior speed. When a carrier jumps into a system full of battleships, perhaps it can run from them forever - but a cruiser will catch and kill the carrier if it tries to run.
Anyway, thanks for listening to us - you guys rock, and Sins is gonna be an awesome game.
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