Regarding pathfinding and formations

from Sins Forums
I cycled trough the forum and i was surprised that there was no post on the pathfinding issues here.
I for one like to play at the begining with light figates, then i make a big fleet-about 8-10 - capital ships and a dozen heavy frigates.I also have at least 2 secondary fleets(2-3 capital,4-5 keavy frigs).
I adress an issue that is of most importance.Some of my capitals are coliding with others!!!!I was very surprised ideed!!
When i give a move order to the oposite direction in witch the fleet is moving, allmost every time 2-3 ships colide with others.That's just wrong!!
I suggest that the 3D space must be used more often.I mean, if the ships doesn't have any room between others in 2D, it colides with them sometimes!?!Use the 3D space pls, it is a space rts...i understand that this is a beta one kenobi version , but i am afraid that these things might get overlooked.
And regarding the pathfinding...homeworld is a great example for space movement,H2 more exactly.
I advice also the implementation of complex formations(complex in the fact that the main design for the formation would be around the strongest ships),and simple frigate/capital formations.That would give a sure boost to the pathfindig also.
I never did understood why can't i go with a huge wall of ships and hit the enemy like a hammer.Instead i jump 1-2 ships once.If the enemy has amased a big fleet at the entry point there, is time enough to chew those ships until the last one arrives to suport them.I mean, it's just plain isulting that in space one should have a row of ships...atacking in row formation:))))
And also regarding pathfinding..PLEASE MAKE THOSE SHIPS GO ARROUND AND FIRE AT THE ENEMY, NOT FIRE THROUGH FRIENDLY SHIPS AT THE ENEMY.One may say that those are ghost ships.



3,610 views 15 replies
Reply #1 from Sins Forums Top
I've noticed stuff like this too. Particularly when ships are coming out of phase space and bumping each other all over the place. Reminds me of the break in a game of pool.
Reply #2 from Sins Forums Top

I've noticed stuff like this too. Particularly when ships are coming out of phase space and bumping each other all over the place. Reminds me of the break in a game of pool.


ditto...
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Reply #3 from Sins Forums Top
I watched a scout frigate nudge a carrier out of its way when turning. Somehow the image of a light frigate forcing a capital ship several times its size out of the way just looks...wrong.
Reply #4 from Sins Forums Top
Played about 20 games so far.AI good enough...some changes are welcomed, but this path finding is killing me.I mean, enough with the coliding ships, but the ships do not know to move up or down the z axis.
I am now frustrated big time.I know ships turn very artisticaly.I enjoy that very much.But when i can't get all my ships in one simple jump where they are needed... that's just "wrong number2".
I think u must adress this issue in the next beta, 'cause this thig can spoil a very tactical atac.

For example...played with hard ai...got 10 ships at level 10.I split the in 2 task forces ... very balanced task forces and attacked an asteroid with a huge defense fleet...with one i jumped in front of the gravity well , with the second i jumped from the left.The plan worked but...not all my ships jumped at once!! So first i was attacked by a swarm of frigates-the main force(about 9 capitals) was closer to the planet.
The pathfinding bug worked two way...my ships dind't jump all at once , but the enemy capitals started to go around the asteroid in a row )) formation, very slowly goind towards my goup that jumped from the front.I jumped the second fleet(3 KOL BS, 2 DUNOV CR) when the first enemy capital reached targeting rage of front fleet.
Surprise! In 30 secs i destroyed 5 capitals only with left fleet.Just because the rail gun and the fact that they wanted to turn on the new threat... but dind't know how:))).BTW they had like50or so frigates, i only had ten heavysthat jumped with the front capitals.I lost 4 capitals and all frigs.That Dunov is a hell of a ship.In fact...it is the best ship around if u ask me;).


We need pathfinding gents!
Reply #5 from Sins Forums Top

How about assigning different default Z-axis layers/orbits for each ship class? This would take limited advantage of the 3-D nature of a system, but not so much as to create an issue. This plays into stacking/wall formations for mixed fleets as well.

The concept is a little like a multi-lane road, where slower traffic keeps right, commercial stuff has bus lanes/HoV lanes, etc. During battles, it's a free for all on pathing, but after the plasma cools, all the ships return to their standard assigned laneways to avoid being traffic obstacles.

Lore for such an arrangement could be something like the centre default layer/orbit is the preferred commercial pathway due to most efficient placement for a civilian grade engine to handle (merchants are cheap), including fewer gravitational stresses wearing on the built modules in that orbit. It gives an economic reason as to central plane module placement.

Military grade systems use less standard orbits to take advantage of less traffic and fewer restrictions required for civilian safety, etc.

Might be a solution that could add more to the feeling of depth in the game...

  

Reply #6 from Sins Forums Top
Neah....i don't like that ideea.Military can go wherever they want...cause they are the military;)
Reply #7 from Sins Forums Top
Seems to me the current described problem is that the "military" is going where ever they want at the moment, which is into everything like a bunch of billiard balls. Those ship captains are just playing bumper cars for fun.

If only there was a solution to the collision issue, because there are so many limitations to depth in a 3-d space...

Reply #8 from Sins Forums Top
I'm all for using different elevations as a default highway system to stop the bumper cars effect if it is considerable doable by the devs. It really stupid now when one ship enters after another and the hit and push each others around.
Reply #9 from Sins Forums Top
How about ,if ships arrive at a given planet or asteroid, and they are not given orders to move to the next planet or asteroid, they default to a standard orbit ? Thus not blocking the phase lane entrances...

Also , when you group jump, ships don't seem to touch as they stay in formation, its when you order them to jump at will, is when they seem to collide into each other...
Reply #10 from Sins Forums Top
I have a question about pathfinding, has anyone else noticed that if you order a fleet of ships to move to a non-adjecent grav-well (ie, go from home well to the front line) that as soon as the fleet reaches a grav-well where the main body (planet, asteroid, etc) is directly in the way of the two phase lanes the fleet will stall until you give it specific orders to move around the planet? I seem to be having this problem lately and it seems to be a bit of a pathfinding issue.
Reply #11 from Sins Forums Top
I haven't seen a stall, rather they all bump into the planet then split up and work their way around it...

It's sad to watch... I mean if they can't fly around a simple planet, how are they expected to do battle?
Reply #12 from Sins Forums Top
3D formations are definitely a must if Sins is to be a 3D game. Also IMO it should be possible for the fleet to jump in such formation...
Reply #13 from Sins Forums Top
Also IMO it should be possible for the fleet to jump in such formation...


If you use the group jump option, the fleet will form up into layers before jumping. But there's no option to maintain formation outside of phase jumping at the moment.
Reply #14 from Sins Forums Top
One advantage of slight changes to the z-axis placement for both constructed items and ships would be the reduction of collisions that are overpowered in their effect to slow down a fleet that is trying to fly past a "turtle" defense shell.

Currently, a wall of guns can trap a fleet long enough to decimate them as the ships try to painfully pathfind around the guns and themselves... they die too easily in a three-Stooges barrel shoot as it is.
Reply #15 from Sins Forums Top
I've found that when attacking an enemy planet my capital ships often ignore asteroids until the last moment when they have to stop, turn 90 degrees, start moving again. This often slows down my attack considerably and naturally is very annoying. Some more intelligent path finding seems to be a must.