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Capital Ships: Should they be researched?

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Capital Ships: Should they be researched?

from Sins Forums
I found it awfully odd that the TEC would have to research Cruisers and some Frigates, but somehow magically know how to make Capital Ships. Considering the power of a Capital Ship, and the inherent complexity of something that huge and with that many abilities--not to mention their upgradability--it seems to me only logical that Capital Ships would have to be researched.

While we do have to research the Shipyard its only a tier 2 science, while the Kodiak is a tier 6 or 7 science. Am I the only one who thinks this? (And I apologize if a thread like this already exists.)
34,843 views 179 replies
Reply #176 from Sins Forums Top
I have not read extensively on this issue and instead opted to skim it over about 20 posts which I admit to an preface with. I agree, the rational way of implementing Capital Ships would be to research them, but then again, if I want to play with logic and rationality I will not be looking to a "game" for that.

I am biased in the sense, that to me, "games of strategy" should have some of the time tested elements from boardgames. I think that a lot of turn based games have that to some extent... and I am sure there is no good translation of that in RTS BUT... Given that most of us consider the Capital Ship as something special the Capital Ships is something precious to me, and researching it first would make it seem that more precious, but... does the logical rationalism count, if it is just one more item to add a level of complexity, an unnecessary one, to a game that is supposed to be fun.

So, in some ways I like the Capital Ships in beta 2... mainly because they are like "special tokens" that lead the fleets into battle, pseudo leadership units - hero units - that can be useful by themselves in that they can survive most skirmishes but not truly complete unless they are formed in rank with a fleet... of course the "research" like choice is still "which CS to I match up with what fleet composition" to achieve a given outcome. (also, they seem most useful in planetary siege, colonizing and destroying orbital improvements)

It should still COST, a fair amount of credits, and maybe that is where the choice needs to be made in some respects, controlled by logistic fleet capacity they may take up, plus the credits they suck from your coffers...

How about, a maintenance cost, that increases as you rise in power - or as they gain in levels, or a cost that is like an increased logistics cost that increases the farther away you get them from your home systems. Or, a maintenance cost that increases as each new CS is brought online... That might make for some fast paced mental math... and hence not be fun.

Just a few ideas, and if this is a rehash of someone else's good ideas that I just didn't get around to reading then I thank your for your patience and time in advance.

Reply #177 from Sins Forums Top
By the time I get 9 research stations to build a Kodak I all ready have a fleet of 8 capital ships and honestly I would rather have 1 capital ship then 4 Kodaks (based on fleet supplies) so I find my self only building cruisers and frigates when I cant build any more capitals. Its not until end game that I actually switch over from light frigates to Kodaks.
Galactic Civilizations IV
Reply #178 from Sins Forums Top
Well currently the number of capital ships is tied to research, another idea would be to increase the costs and tiers of that research so that capital ships would be a little rarer.

In principle I agree that it's too easy right now to get them. The way I think of them is, as someone else mentioned, sort of the fleet flagships, their numbers should be few compared to the rest of the fleet. But right now even on small maps you can easily research 2-3 ranks in officer training and have 3-4 capitals and only 30-35 other frigates, and then wipe the floor.. For engagements with relatively small fleets, 3-4 Sovas trained up to level 3 (without the extra researched training) make a lot of difference, being able to field 3 squads of bombers each with +20% damage bonus.
Reply #179 from Sins Forums Top
well almost forgot that one, but since I have played a bit myself I can drop in a comment.

in principle I would like them to be researched, or rather some of them, but

- they are fairly balanced so far. balanced to the point that now capitalships is superior to another, only better suited to a specific situation. as such it would seem strange to make them available at different stages.

- it limits choices: as capitalships are filling different functions they can become core elements of early game strategies. making them available only a bit later into the game, would make some early strategies impossible or at the very least considerably harder to pull off than now.

- with crew lvl or # of cs, there already is a restriction, introducing a second one would seem almost too restrictive.

on the other hand, what it can benefit

+ "feel" of capships requiring at least some research activity to get. I also thought they could be linked to their respective cruiser/ frig analogs like a sova to the light carrier or the marza to the lrm/ krosov. of course tier 5 is way too high, I would make them available at tier 1 - 3, otherwise see above it limits strats in the beginning too much.

+ research gets even more important, as there is no ship type, where you can build defenses against all sorts of dangers.

bottom line: a cool idea, but I don't see any way to make it work, because benefits don't outweigh imposed limits and since time is short anyway ...

oh, and while the thread is old a) there never was a result and I couldn't find anything by the devs on the topic, so I don't regard this discussion as over and b) while it was going on I was too inexperienced to comment, otherwise I would have.