The Flagship

In all honesty a flagship in any naval engagement is not necessarily the biggest or most powerful, usually just the ship with the highest ranking military officer in a fleet or battle group.

Yes it would be nice to have an ultra powerful flagship, but it would just make all three races more alike then different. Which is a very bad thing! Diversity makes for better gameplay then a god ship.

this is now the third or forth topic on such an idea, there is no need for anymore

The Flagship is already quite powerful, it starts at level 3 after all and can reach 5-6 by the time other capitals show up.

Yes agreed and for balancing the vasari flag might be lev 1 while the other 1s are higher like tec lev 3 and advent lev 2

I don't understand how beefed up flagships would make the races more alike. A Kol flagship would just be a better version of a Kol and a Vasari flagship would just be an improved version of a Varsari capital ship. IMO if the ships are sufficiently diverse to begin with adding flagship dependent buffs might even help establish the three racial identities.

Well, instead of giving ever ship a bonus to firepower, why don't flagships of different races have special abilities that are very typical of their side. Also, the TEC flagship might be slow and especially powerful, the Vasari flag might instead be fast and able to open up jump points/wormholes to allow extra mobility to the whole fleet. The Advent might be something completely different, adding defensive bonuses to ships in orbit of a friendly planet.

I don't know enough about these mysterious races and what's known about them yet so the above is just an example.

Flagship = Special but not nessisarily OMG'BIG'BEEF'OF'A'SHIP

I keep on seeing this reply in nearly all the flagship threads, I disagree with it. Nothing about having a flagship will make the races less diverse as long as the flagship is unique for each race and somehow represents the race in its uniqueness.

for example the flagship of the vasari would have some unique psi attack/abilities that somehow help in combination with the vasari fleets, but when ignoring its special abilities would be less effective in combat than the tec flagship.

now Im not agreeing or disagreeing with the idea of the flagship as the OP intends there to be, but it wont reduce the diversity as long as its possible (should be) to make 3 unique ships that represent each race in a specific way.

The flagship of most real life fleets have never been the single most powerful warship in the fleet. Usually a flagship bears the title of flagship because it is the C&C (Command and Control) center for the fleet. It is also usually where the fleet commander and/or admirals are based. Often than not, the "flagship" is often just a command cruiser used for its logistics ability rather than its fighting capability.


Since we are on the subject of flagships, can a SSE (my shorthand for SINS) mod or dev tell us if we can redesignate a new capital ship as our fleet flagship if our first is destroyed?

nicely said, I agree. as such something like an aura would better suit the actual nature of a flagship than making it uber strong. however, that is most likely the role of cruisers. you could take it to the flagships, sinces there's only one at a time, but another way to distinguish it could be appreciated. hmm, wait, here's an idea, say, if you have ship designated as a flagships it could go a few levels beyond the current maximum, which could be believable from a lore and realism perspective and it would make the ship a bit tougher, but not a once, but only through additional fighting. what do you think?

But then you are restricting flagships to capitals since they are the only ones with XP, which is fine. BUT... Designating a ship as your flagship is a little bit unrealistic for the following reason: Once the first flagship, A, gets destroyed by heavy enemy fire, you would assign the role immediately to capital ship B. A's status would then be meaningless since it's like a torch to be carried over. A flagship would hold extra bonuses because the highest ranking officer of the fleet is present. Since we do not have any control over crews and captains, it would only make sense that we have some sort of 'upgrade' that adds an Admiral to a ship. This upgrade would be one-time-only but you'd have a choice of three different admirals so you can have three fleets.

Or, even better and simpler, give each admiral his own ship so when you do finish training/calling one Admiral, then his own personal ship would appear. Obviously the devs can make this ship as big/small/beefy/skinny as they want it to be, so it doesn't have to be a big uber Super Star Destroyer.

This would fit to the desires of the above posters with making a special flagship type vessel. Suits me too

wait, I didn't say such a designation was immediate. granted, it may have sound thus, but exactly for the siuation you have outlined I wouldn't go for immediate redesignation. designation should cost something and should take a little time to finish. maybe it would force the ship to go back to a homeworld planet or at least a major shipyard/ military academy. does it have to be one time only? I for one am not decided on this one yet. the problem here is that you would be tempted to make it really strong, too strong probably for balance reasons. and if you don't then the flagship get lost later on.



hmm, for me this reads as if you do want a significantly more powerful ship than currently available classes, which is not everyone's wish I think. also, providing a choice is nice, but this would also mean that you have 3 possible ships of which you can only use one and as multiplayer goes, there will often be one that is best overall no matter how much balancing you do and you have two wonderful ships per race that you will rarely ever see. I would prefer basing a flagships on existing types and rather putting the energy and ideas for those ships into weaker standard concepts that we would actually be able to use.

Sure, the Flagship doesn't have to be the biggest and meanest, but, it would be a ship that stands out, that give personality to the whole fight. Since it would be a personal pet of the players, it would make sense for it to be a bit tougher so that you can care for it properly and retreat it if things look bad.

As it stands now, the game doesn't have any personality. You build a myriad of ships and send them off to fight. There's never an incentive to zoom in to see your ships in action.

A Flagship could take this role, it doesn't ave to be the most offensive of ships, but it should have good defensive capabilities. You should also be able to customize it to a certain degree. It should give, as mentioned above, bonuses to nearby ships, a great idea.

Yes, that's what I meant when I outlined my second idea about seperate and unique flagships. I never meant to say that these ships have to be super powerful. I did, however, mean that they are unique and have special abilities that make things a little more interesting. Also, you're allowed all three at once, but you can only have them out once, so if you lose one of the three, it's gone.

One of those three ships would be your Fleet's flagship and thus all ships would gain specific bonuses depending on which you designate.

Here's an example on how I meant the actual Flagships to be like:

Flagship One: Rear Admiral Hashimoto's Blazer

The Blazer is a suped up frigate that grants all nearby frigates a small increase to Speed and a reduced chance of being hit. Furthermore, the special ability of this ship is to allow all frigates to ignore the effect of Jump Inhibitors as well as giving out a reduced jump charge time. So, you could use this ship for small, fast raids into enemy territory to mix things up so your main fleet can rush in. Obviously, since you only have frigates with you, you wont be able to defeat a whole fleet with capitals but you will be able to harass trade, research and resource gathering.

Bonuses for using this as primary "Flagship"

1. Due to expert knowledge in fleet maneuvers, slightly higher speed and maneuverability for all ships in the vicinity.

+ Speed
+ Maneuverability
+ Fighter and Bomber Speeds

Why choose him for primary "Flagship"? Quicker Response times of fleets as well as mobility in countering enemy.


Flagship Two: Admiral Vestov's Commander

The Commander is a cruiser sized vessel designed to act as a C&C ship, giving Cruisers in the vicinity a lower antimatter requirement for special abilities with a decreased Cruiser special ability cooldown. Ultimate support for our cruisers on its own.

Bonuses for being Primary Flag:

2. Due to strict drill routines and maintenance, Vestov increases shield and hull regeneration rates and decreases build time for defense structures in orbit.


Flagship Three: Fleet Admiral Fenrik's Crusader

The Crusader affects Capital ships, giving them increased Hull HP and faster rate of fire to their weapons. This also extends to fighters/bombers so the Carrier isn't left out. He's designed to augment the survivability of capitals.

Bonuses for being Primary Flag:

3. Fenrik's determination grants all ships higher armour. Planets have an increased resistance to bombing and recouperate faster. Shipyards construct ships quicker.


Each ship would have a unique look and (hopefully) the voice-over for each of the Admirals would be unique to add some extra personality.
I just made this up on the spot to give you guys an idea. Instead of these passive abilities, similar ones can be placed as regular anti-matter skills.

There are a lot of possibilities, this is what I suggest.

Yeah those are all good ideas! It would add personality in two forms: You get a hero unit you can relate to (Something that has a name sure is more fun.) and you get to customize what you want to focus your fleet on.

The Flagships themselves can use the same hull, as this would make sense out of a production view, but different equipment installed. Modular style.

As you may choose a certain bonus this may also incorporate more strategy as you may build you fleet differently, trying out different strategies.

It's like adding Electronic Warfare to the game.

maby when they are fighting with your fleet it gives ships arround it in a certain radius a bonus on shield recharge and stuf like that

Modular ships.... Yummy. I'd love to see that incorporated. Especially with these flagships. That would seriously give the player a lot more freedom in designing ships to their own needs. A simple selection of what type of weapon/bigger engine the ship would use and we're ready to go.

But you do realize that if they add modular flagships they better give targetable hardpoints to all ships ^^

Yeah. in theory targettable hardpoints would exist, but imagine trying to incorporate that into this game. It'd need ou to micromanage all fleets, unless it's built into fighter and bomber AI only perhaps.

Modular ships would be sweet, but making them targettable sounds like a dream we're not likely to see

It's the flagship because it's the first capital ship you start with. Much how the NX-01 (Enterprise) was Earth's flagship in Star Trek.  

When you play using the Kings gameplay mode, your flagship is your leader. If you lose it, you lose the game.

Fiction

The meaning of "flagship" has been loosely interpreted in works of fiction as well. For example, the USS Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) in Star Trek: The Next Generation is often referred to as the flagship of the United Federation of Planets, even though it does not carry commanding officers of higher rank than the captains aboard other ships. This is because, in Star Trek, the term seems to mean the ship that represents the fleet as a whole and hosts the most advanced technology and finest crew, though not necessarily the crew of the greatest rank.

Darth Vader's flagship is the Super Star Destroyer Executor. Although Lord Vader is not an admiral, he has a special military rank in the Empire that makes him answerable only to the Emperor (and Grand Moff Tarkin, until the latter's death), and apparently all the officers in the Navy are under his command when needed. Vader uses the Executor as a flagship, leading a fleet of other ships from the Executor's bridge. The ship is not depicted as literally carrying a flag.

In the PlayStation 2 game Ace Combat 5: The Unsung War, the main characters find themselves as part of a makeshift fleet fighting to stop the war between Osea and Yuktobania. The flagship of their fleet is the aircraft carrier Kestrel, simply because it is the most important ship in the fleet.

In the Games Workshop game Battlefleet Gothic, an admiral of at least one race must be present on the most expensive warship, regardless of the player's wishes.

In the computer game Homeworld 2, the main Vaygr command ship/construction shipyard is appropriately labelled a "flagship".

In the TV show Battlestar Galactica (TV Show) the Battlestar Pegasus is correctly labeled the flag ship of the Colonial Fleet as it is the ship in which Admiral Cain is commanding.

In the 1985 Cartoon show Thundercats Jaga and the Thundercats flee Thundera before it was destroyed. they were on board Jaga's Flagship that carried the Code of Thundera.

In The Super Dimension Fortress Macross animated series (later adapted as part of Robotech), the SDF-1 Macross was considered Earth's flagship despite it being made out of an abandoned alien vessel. The SDF-1 Macross was built by a government that unified Earth despite worldwide warfare.

Care of Wikipedia!

This is the definition I prefer:

A flagship is the ship used by the commanding officer of a group of naval ships. The term originates from the custom of the commanding officer (usually, but not always, a flag officer) to fly a distinguishing flag.

Used in this way, "flagship" is fundamentally a temporary designation; the flagship is wherever the admiral is flying his flag.

Well yes, flagship literally does mean, the ship that bears the flag.

In the context of space fleets, it would hold as the C&C cruiser of all fleets within the empire.

Although what would be really cool would be have to have (shift + #) fleets and have a capital ship in each designated as that battlegroup's "flagship". So you'd have the "Flagship" and "Battlegroup # Flagship".

~ lordkosc's list.

Or in Freespace 2 the Frigate Iceni is considered Bosh's flagship while he still has a couple of Orions under his command which exceed the Iceni in term of Fire power.

I think I prefer flag ship as a Command and Control ship rather then just a ship with a lot of raw power. Instead of adding more guns, I think adding more radical bonus would be better.






Heh, that would be cool, I wonder how far we can implement that, either by the developers or through modding. The scale of the game we would be fighting in many system, it would be nice if we can designate the ships in each system as a fleet and has a flag ship for each.

hmm... perhaps if the flagship is destroyed you cannot redesignate one for like 3 minutes or so, and during that time all ships within a 2 jump radius have their attack power reduced by 15% (representing the loss of moral from the loss of the flagship)

while I love that idea (also the one with system flagships sounds awesome) that sounds a bit difficult to balance. not only would you lose the bonus, but you would also incur a malus, so this would make any flagship the highest priority target and damn hard to keep alive. at least thats what I would attack first if I could reduce the power of an enemy fleet that significantly by destroying a single ship. how could you prevent that?

If such an idea is introduced then there had better be some good fleet bonuses as well. I also like the different style of flagships. Which goes with my custom flagship setup idea. It is as I posted before. I want to build my flagship system by system. Simply put I dont want a Kol class I want a unique class.